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Don't piss off an alterer

12:54 AMSnakestone swings a rolaren claidhmore at Earthdiver!
AS: +135005 vs DS: +46 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +46 = +135033
... and hits for 67512 points of damage!
Powerful slash leaves Earthdiver without a right leg!
Earthdiver screams and falls to the ground grasping his mangled right leg!

* Earthdiver drops dead at your feet! reg

01:14 AMWhat was the story that caused that "spankin'"? I would have LOVED to seen that at a few merchants on the Cloud. Last night had to have been the worse...I finally discovered the joy of "squelch"!

And no disrespect, but when I heard about the man that committed suicide and his family blamed Everquest... the first thing I thought of was the poor man had probably been sitting in a merchant's wagon for hours!

Summer
reg

06:19 AMI'm surprised a swing like that doesn't break their code.

Why are wizard bolts not equal to a warrior swing if they can go that high? reg

09:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dustin Brookthorn:

Why are wizard bolts not equal to a warrior swing if they can go that high?

Different damage factors.
reg

10:53 AMTalk about blood loss, probably let a team of empaths train off of that .

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Anticor Rifling, Giantman Wizard reg

03:42 PM<< I'm surprised a swing like that doesn't break their code. >>

Unless their AS is greater than 2.1 billion, it can't cause a crash.

Wizard and warrior AS differ for reasons that should one day be fixed... hopefully.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

04:53 PMI there any IC reason to justify a merchant having an AS like that?

Or is the alterer just trying to stroke his or her own ego?

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~Varys reg

05:14 PMWell it doesn't really matter what the merchant's AS is, because from a character perspective you have no idea what the numbers are. All you know is Earthdiver got totally friggin pummeled. However if he had attacked the merchant first and his DS was insanely high and he had no equipment out and appeared younger than Earthdiver, then thats kind of messed up.


Mike reg

10:17 PMI don't agree. Obviously, my character isn't going to know what his AS is. That's a given.

But me the player can imagine what my character SHOULD be seeing as the result of that hit against Earthdriver. All of us use those numbers to interpret in-game events. And therein lies our differenc. We interpret the resulting actions behind those numbers differently.

Based on those numbers, I would imagine the merchant not only taking off his leg, but hitting Earthdriver so hard he's thrown through the wall into another room (or outside, whatever the case may be) yet none of that was described. And not only was nothing like that described, but I can see no IC justification for the merchant to be that strong.

Unless, of course, there is already some backstory as to WHY that merchant is so physically adept in the first place.

And if there is no backstory, and it's just a stunt to make all of us go googley eyes as we tap away behind our keyboards then I think it's plain silly. And, of course, that leads me back to the question in my previous post! :p

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~Varys reg

12:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Varys:
... but I can see no IC justification for the merchant to be that strong.


That's because the reasons for them being that strong are purely OOC. Pretty much all GM run NPCs, merchants and storyline characters have to have insanely high AS and DS numbers, to prevent the snerts from killing them and running around screeching that they 'owned' a GM.

[This message has been edited by Taernath (edited 04-04-2002).] reg

04:30 AMI'm not sure about that particular GM, but Verrath appeared in his 330's, age wise. Should be pretty strong by then i'd say. But let me ask you this..Earthdiver is in his 130's or 140's now, not sure. If you were making your NPC, merchant or alterer what kind of AS would you give them, if they appeared very aged? Maybe it is an ego thing on some of their parts but if i could make one, you can bet it'd be strong. Just because.

Summir reg

06:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Summir:
I'm not sure about that particular GM, but Verrath appeared in his 330's, age wise. Should be pretty strong by then i'd say. But let me ask you this..Earthdiver is in his 130's or 140's now, not sure. If you were making your NPC, merchant or alterer what kind of AS would you give them, if they appeared very aged? Maybe it is an ego thing on some of their parts but if i could make one, you can bet it'd be strong. Just because.

Summir

Earthdiver was in his 180's when I saw him. (I think)

And if I was the GM alterer whatever I would make myself immortal and stop. They lots of other nifty ways to kill people, making my AS 116026012350 isn't really necessary. No big deal though.
reg

04:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Taernath:

That's because the reasons for them being that strong are purely OOC. Pretty much all GM run NPCs, merchants and storyline characters have to have insanely high AS and DS numbers, to prevent the snerts from killing them and running around screeching that they 'owned' a GM.

[This message has been edited by Taernath (edited 04-04-2002).]

Right. I understand the purpose behind such a high AS is an OOC one: to take care of the snerts.

But I say, if it's an OOC problem, deal with it in an OOC fashion. It's my opinion that GM's and the like flaunting such a high AS actually FAN THE FLAME that encourages snertlike behavior rather than extinguish it.

After all, your average snert (and I have no idea if Earthdiver was exhibiting poor behavior, so this is just a generalization) is going see that swing's high AS -- or more importantly, the violent aspects of it -- and be encouraged to engage in that behavior as well.

Violence begets violence. Abusive parents produce abusive children. However, leading by example produces the most constructive results. And yes, unfortunately, in many ways the dynamic between misbehaving player and GM or GH can be quite parent-like.

So not only is it OOC but it it propels the snert-like cycle forward. In a realtime incident where a GM is witness to poor behavior, extricate the individual from the room or the game. Don't obliterate him. It's silly and self-defeating.

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~Varys reg

05:45 PMEarthdiver, and the merchant were joking around the whole time, and somewhere towards the end, Snake swung at Earth. Mock play that might have gone to far on the GMs end.

Earthdiver isn't angry about being killed, but I think I probably would have been if I were in the same situation.

Along other lines.. Should the merchant get in trouble for engaging in PvP? Im sure he didn't and won't.. But Earthdiver didn't exactly agree to be killed. They were having a discussion, even if they were arguing. Should Merchants/GMs set examples like this?

reg

06:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by AestheticDeath:
Earthdiver, and the merchant were joking around the whole time, and somewhere towards the end, Snake swung at Earth. Mock play that might have gone to far on the GMs end.

Earthdiver isn't angry about being killed, but I think I probably would have been if I were in the same situation.

Along other lines.. Should the merchant get in trouble for engaging in PvP? Im sure he didn't and won't.. But Earthdiver didn't exactly agree to be killed. They were having a discussion, even if they were arguing. Should Merchants/GMs set examples like this?

I didn't think about that but it brings up a good point. If a GM or Merchant kills a player are they held to the same policies as a player would be held to? Doubt it. reg

10:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dustin Brookthorn:
I didn't think about that but it brings up a good point. If a GM [b]or Merchant kills a player are they held to the same policies as a player would be held to? Doubt it.[/B]

I've seen several people in various places ask this question. With all due respect: DOH!

Of course not!! Why in the hell should they? They are NOT players. These are the people who are reponsible for running the game. They play by a set of rules, certainly, but not the same ones as you and I do. What's wrong with that?

Are you upset that policemen are held to a different standard when they shoot someone? Are you bothered that a firetruck can run red lights and you can't? Does it bug you that you don't get to drive the Jungle Cruise boat at Disneyland?

Heck ... while we're at it, maybe the critters should be held to the same ruleset was we are. Damn things attack me unprovoked all the time.

-Prestius reg

11:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Prestius:
Does it bug you that you don't get to drive the Jungle Cruise boat at Disneyland?
-Prestius

That's jealousy more than anything else. reg

12:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Prestius:

-Prestius

I would say the GM's shouldn't be held to the same set of rules. But I don't see a reason why Merchants shouldn't behave even if they are dressed up GM's.
reg

04:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Prestius:
Of course not!! Why in the hell should they? They are NOT players. These are the people who are reponsible for running the game. They play by a set of rules, certainly, but not the same ones as you and I do. What's wrong with that?

Are you upset that policemen are held to a different standard when they shoot someone? Are you bothered that a firetruck can run red lights and you can't? Does it bug you that you don't get to drive the Jungle Cruise boat at Disneyland?


I agree that they should not be governed by the same ruleset as the players for the exact reasons you specify.

However, that really isn't what is at issue here.

Prestius, I know the quote above was not a response to any of my posts but I feel it's important not to lose sight of the reason behind this thread in the first place.

What is at issue (and is discussed in my previous post) is HOW merchants deal with snerts. Not whether or not they have the right to.

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~Varys

[This message has been edited by Varys (edited 04-05-2002).] reg

05:16 PMThat wasn't a merchant dealing with a snert. That was a merchant trying to roleplay. It's a GM in a suit, showing us how they act. And don't get in trouble for it. But if one of us were to do the same thing, we would be in deep doodoo. Unconsented PvP, or CvC whatever. They might not need to be held to all the same rules, but some rules should follow them just as much as any of the players. What if one of the merchants had killed my newbie? Rolled up in Ta'Vaalor specially for the cloud. He had no deeds, and was holding around 6m in my stuff. If they had killed him, and he went demonic.. I just lost 6m. Should they get in trouble for it? I think so. Should they have to replace what they just wasted? I think so. But they wouldn't get in trouble, and they wouldn't replace a thing. They'd say you should have learned how to get deeds. Or find some other way to blame it on the player who went demonic.

[This message has been edited by AestheticDeath (edited 04-05-2002).] reg

12:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AestheticDeath:
[B]That wasn't a merchant dealing with a snert. That was a merchant trying to roleplay. It's a GM in a suit, showing us how they act. And don't get in trouble for it. But if one of us were to do the same thing, we would be in deep doodoo. Unconsented PvP, or CvC whatever. They might not need to be held to all the same rules, but some rules should follow them just as much as any of the players. What if one of the merchants had killed my newbie? Rolled up in Ta'Vaalor specially for the cloud. He had no deeds, and was holding around 6m in my stuff. If they had killed him, and he went demonic.. I just lost 6m. Should they get in trouble for it? I think so. Should they have to replace what they just wasted? I think so. But they wouldn't get in trouble, and they wouldn't replace a thing. They'd say you should have learned how to get deeds. Or find some other way to blame it on the player who went demonic.[B]

Hmm .. OK. Well, first off .. lets talk about the RP aspect. I personally don't see an issue with certain merchants who RP old, cranky characters to whack people who are RP'ing back. I figure that when you start messing with a GM Merchant, it stops being "unprovoked".

Take Balouga. She's a well-known bitch. She even had a sign in her shop that said "Touch Balouga and Die". So .. when you touch her and get offed, where's the 'unprovoked'? I manage to do at least one thing at her raffles to warrant a bolt or two! So?

As to dealing with snerts, this is a different issue - and to be honest I've very rarely seen a merchant come right out and just blast a snert into yesterday. Most cases they just 'remove' them from the room via some interesting means.

And .. look .. you need to take a little personal responsibilty here. A merchant isn't going to blast you without cause. If you brought your newbie mule with 6 mil in stuff and no deeds into a merchant and provoked him into killing you and sending you demonic, is it really the merchant's fault? Please! My advice is, keep him clear of cranky merchants and for God's sake don't touch Balouga!

I get the sense that people who get really bent over merchants killing folks are those who have gotten into trouble for some sort of CVC/PVP trouble and are crying sour grapes because "they can do it and I can't". To that I say .. yes, they can. <shrug> What you see as a "power trip", I see just as a fun. Without stuff like this, the game, and merchants in particular would get pretty dull.

But again, I'll say .. I've NEVER seen a merchant just stand up and off someone 'just because', in most cases it's an RP thing. And .. I really don't see the ability for merchants to do this changing .. nor do I think it should. It's what adds spice to the game!

-Prestius

[This message has been edited by Prestius (edited 04-06-2002).] reg