The Players Corner Archive

Doomsday approaches

BREAKAGE RETURNS!
It's time to get friendly with the weapon merchants! Weapon and armor degradation and breakage is returning on October 26th.

In an unprecedented act of good will, the weapon and armor merchants of Elanthia have elected to offer all weapon and armor repair services for free! They
will be extending this offer to the citizens of Elanthia for the week of October 26th through November 1st.

WHAT IS BREAKAGE?

Breakage is system by which weapons and armor deteriorate or break. The mechanics that determine breakage are based loosely on normal kinetic physics.
Items deteriorate with every contact with another item, which occurs most often in combat, but may occur in other situations as well.

Most situations involve two items “clashing.” The mechanics of breakage involve comparing the difference of item strengths (STR) modified by
their integrity. Both items incur degradation, with the weaker item suffering a larger magnitude of degradation. Degradation affects item integrity, and
in turn, item integrity affects strength and durability (DU). In addition, the item with a lower strength also undergoes a “catastrophic
failure” roll.

CATASTROPHIC FAILURE

Catastrophic failure (CF) is where an item suffers irreparable harm and is rendered totally useless. The CF roll is an open die 100. (An open die 100 roll
involves a random roll of a number between 1 and 100. If that number is above 95, then another random number between 1 and 100 is generated and added to
the previous number. If the second roll is above 95, another random number between 1 and 100 is generated and added to the total. And so on. The sequence
comes to an end when a number of less than 95 is rolled.) The sum total of the open die 100 roll must exceed the effective durability value of the item in
order for catastrophic failure to occur. The effective durability of an item is the Durability of that item modified by the item integrity.

Some items that undergo catastrophic failure may be repairable.

WEAPON AND ARMOR MAINTENANCE

Weapon and armor deterioration will be repairable using repair kits that will be made widely available in all towns. Profession and skills will be taken
into account when determining the success of any repair.

Professional maintenance services will also be available in most major towns for a fee. Some broken items that have undergone CF will also be repairable
in the same locations. However, only special merchants will be able to repair advanced or special weapons and armor that have been broken.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Q - Will clashing not effect weapons and shields if the defensive strength is much higher then the attacking strength?

A - AS/DS does not affect breakage. As long as the hands are clear and the attacker cannot damage you, there is no breakage occurrence. The AS/DS model is
independent and exclusive of the breakage system.

Q - Are we going to continue to have the numbers showing?

A - We're discussing that topic in development. We may replace the actual valuation with an adjective equivalent that is less precise.

Q - About clashes, you said nothing a player does will affect the random roll between whether it'll be hitting the shield, weapon or just pure avoidance.
Will we see a skill or a stance in the future that will allow players greater control on which items clash?

A – No. Our combat system currently does not have that degree of flexibility.

Q - Do greaves or aventails only add to the weight of full coverage armor? And if so, does breakage affect the covering part or the armor?

A- Whole armor coverage supercedes component coverage. Where the main armor worn does not offer coverage, if there is a component armor worn, the
component armor will take the damage. Armor components worn over existing main armor coverage iare considered cosmetic and do not affect combat
determinations.

Q -Will any "artifact" items in game be exempt?

A – There will be no exemptions from breakage.

Q - Are combat maneuvers involved in this process?

A- If a weapon makes contact, breakage occurs. Maneuvers are not involved once contact is made.

Q - Sword swingers are at a huge disadvantage as they have to hit to kill something. Have you considered the possibility of adding training into the
equation?

A – No. The mechanic does not allow exemptions. All hits are determined with the same kinetic physics.

Q - There have been questions about engravings not allowing people to see the integrity of their shields. Is that being worked on as well?

A - We're working on those scripts that disallow the LOOK.

Q - What about STR and DU numbers on weapons that have been altered by merchants (like strengthening / lightening) but still have STR/DU values comparable
to weapons that weren't altered?

A - Item weight affects the magnitude of the degradation, lightening affects weight, strengthening affects STR or DU values. Some merchants take away from
one to give to the other.

Q - Will there be a maintanence system?

A- Yes, field repair kits will be made available. There are only 3 possible states for an item: undamaged, degraded, or CF. When an item is degraded, it
may be repaired to a certain extent from field repair kits. Skill in weapons, armor, guild and profession bonuses apply to the magnitude of the 'fix'. A
fix may or may not be beneficial.

Merchants and shops will be available to make repairs (for a fee) as well.

Items that undergo catastrophic failure (CF) items will not be removed from the game. Merchants may repair some items that undergo CF. (It is safe to
assume that weapons that are not scripted, do not have any additional abilities and have an enchantment bonus less than 25 can be repaired.) Special live
merchants may be able to repair more advanced broken weapons.

Q – Will items that are easier to break be easier to repair?

A – The ease of repair involves a number of factors, including the material type.

Q - Is there any plan to reconsider the DU of leathers?

A- Yes.

Q- You had mentioned catastrophic failure coming down to 2 D100 rolls vs. the items durability, 1 95+ leading to another open?? Can I (not a math major)
read that to mean that an item with over 200 DU and at newly FIXed or high integrity would have 0 chance of CF?

A- No the roll is an open d100. A 100 sided die is rolled, a value greater than 95 results in a subsequent d100 roll. All rolls are summed to give the new
result, repeat the process ad infinitum.

Q - Any allowance being planned merchant weapons that don't seem to coordinate with similar weapons of other merchants?

A- No. The weapons STR and DU are as is, unless it's < 1.

Q - You mentioned strengthening and lightening of items, but will padding play any part in either its strength or durability?

A - Padding does not affect any breakage component.

Q - Items will be able to be repaired by anyone, but will any profession be better at repairing an item or will it be a skill that gets built up as time
goes on and some professions will gain skill in it quicker than others?

A - Repair is not profession specific, though some professions will gain bonuses.

Q - Will the percent chance of CF be reduced? Seems to me that despite the quoted percentage that there is an unusually high amount of breakage right now.
This might be attributed to the number of players currently in the game compared to the past.

A- Anecdotal reports will present a higher occurrence than what is true.

Q – You will not be adjusting any STR or DUs on any weapon unless it's less than 1?

A - That is correct. When the dwarf said annealed weapons were weak, he meant it

Q - If an item is altered at a merchant, is the new alteration taken into consideration on the breakage system? For example, if he has a normal vultite
falchion altered into a veil iron falchion. Or is the original metal still what will be used?

A – Unless the merchant specified otherwise, the change was likely only cosmetic in nature. As a rule, alterations do NOT alter material properties
into another material type.

Q - Does age/training factor into the breakage equation at all?

A - No. Neither age nor training factors into breakage.

Q - Does AS/DS factor into the breakage equation?

A - No AS/DS is independent from breakage.

Q - If alterations for items were cosmetic, would we be able to get them changed to meet the integrity of what they should be made of in the alterations
now?

A - No.

Q – Why do bows break?

A - A bow counts as a staff weapon for determinations of melee.

Q – Will DB items break?

A – When breakage is initially released, DB items will not be affected at all. However, in the future some DB items (for instance, DB items that are
worn in armor slots) may be affected. We do not currently have any specifics.

Q - Will physical damaging spells such as bolts, Mana D, etc effect armor and weapons during breakage?

A - Not at this time.

Q - If a weapon has an edge from one of the merchants, for example: A golvern edged vultite longsword, would the golvern edge add to the strength of the
item at all?

A - No. That change is cosmetic.

Q - Bashing and breakage. Will bashing boxes using the warrior bash system effect breakage?

A - Not at this time.

Q - Will degradation of a weapon lower the STR/DU at any time?

A - Yes. Take the integrity value and multiply it by the STR/DU to get their respective effective STR/DU.

Q - There are some concerns that faenor, the metal that was touted as elven unbreakable, needs to be looked at. It seems a bit low.

A - The material is set to its proper designated parameters.

Q - Items that were strengthened by merchants or lightened don't seem to be a factor in the items ST/DU, will this change? Also does crit weighting and
padding currently have any factor in the ST/DU of items?

A - Strengthening is a modification to the item's STR/DU. Lightening affects the item‘s encumbrance values. Both aspects are criteria for breakage
assessment. Crit weighting and padding is not considered by the breakage system.

Q – How can I determine the STR/DU of my weapon or armor?

A - LOOK is the designated verb to determine item integrity.

Q - Are the metals listed in game under shift metals and shift woods the only true metals? Metals like titanium and adamantite are they only cosmetic?

A - Yes and Yes.

Q - What does it exactly mean when it states after an attack. "Not even close."?

A - This indicates that the miss was sufficient enough to not even involve the defending weapon or shield. Physical contact between the two items was
avoided.

Q – What do I do if I’m sure that my weapon has incorrect breakage numbers?

A – If your breakage numbers are clearly exceptionally wrong (for instance, 0/0, 1/1, 2/900) then please assist to have a GameMaster help you.
However, GameMasters will only manually adjust bizarrely inaccurate weapons. Do not assist simply because you believe your weapon should be stronger. A GM
will not help you.

Q – How soon should we expect the reintroduction of padders, weighters, enchanters, etc?

A – A month or so, minimum.
reg

Q - How will the price of FGB be affected by all of this.

A - It depends if its breakage numbers have have been revised downwards to like 65/200 and you get hit a lot, then yes. Also, if the above has occured, expect to see it or something with almost the same stats to be sold in the 2 mill plus range at a merchant near you. reg

Well that sure sounds unfun.

Hrm....thought Gemstone was about fun.

Oh well. Thought it was time to take a break.

edge reg

If you do, Edge, I'll flay you. No joke.

------------------
Caels Onae'Rae
AIM : Caels OnaeRae
MSN : Caels_Onaerae@hotmail.com
ICQ : 91446467
Yahoo!: caels_onaerae reg

The week of October 26th will also be a deciding factor for me if I will continue to play or not.

I can find much better things to spend my 170$ a month on then watching all the hard work I have put into developing my characters destroyed.

I hope for both mine and Simu's sake this won't be the end of our relationship.

Buckwheet reg

Banning = Blessing perhaps?

Lower blood pressure, less frustration. New games... The list goes on. Kidding, slightly.

Hiway reg

quote:
The week of October 26th will also be a deciding factor for me if I will continue to play or not.

I can see by the numbers posted on tsoran's site that at least 300 people a night have said 'that's enough for me'...

Simu will go on, with MUCH lower revenues (if salon.com can survive with 300 subscribers a day paying $30/yr, then Simu will be OK)

Vote with thy wallets! If you're a premium member, drop down to regular! Save a few bucks during your uncertain time. Nothing speaks like sending your ENTERTAINMENT dollars elsewhere!

(if you still want to spend that money, the Red Cross or the NY Firemen charities still need all the bucks they can get)


And for Roberta and other naysayers, I know you're gonna say it here, too... Yes, GS DID have breakage in the ICE age, and people didn't mind. GS in the ICE age was a completely different game. If breakage had never been written out of the game code, no one would be griping now- it would have been merely another part of the game during GS's glory days (97-98). But, now, since people haven't had to deal with it for at least 6 years, it's a traumatic thing, and WILL cause a majority of the people to rethink why they play.


Al
reg

For those of you who are considering quitting GS, ask yourselves a question...

Why do I play GS?

Does it REALLY matter that you won't have your 10x very heavily crit weighted falchion? If so, are you ONLY playing because you have that weapon?

I'll tell you what, if EVERYTHING I own breaks I'll be pissed, but I sure as hell wouldn't quit. I'm not playing GS because my ability to hunt is great because of my items. I'm playing GS because I ENJOY it for one thing or anything.

Everyone hates losing property. We feel violated and less than whole after we lose something we value. I have a hunch that most of you who say you will quit are really just anticipating this feeling of lose and assuming the initial reaction to it now. Is it really worth quitting GS because you don't have a certain few items? Does it really matter? +95% of the lands can get by with 4x stuff all around. I hunted bonespear with 0x stuff without a problem.

I just ask that people give what you propose logical consideration. Weigh everything because you are so quick to email billing and tell them to screw themselves.

Sonic
reg

Do I have fun playing GS?

Sure do.

Do I have fun gaining levels to move on to bigger things?

Sure do.

Do I have fun Rping with people and meeting new people everyday?

Sure do.

Reason I say the week of the 26th might be my last?

Because not only have I worked the RP aspect of the game I have made it a point to get items tailored to my specific characters. I will be more pissed when my 2x sharpened scalpel breaks then when my 8x heavy crit padded brig does. Why? Because the brig is overkill, the scalpel I use as a RP tool. Same goes for my "sharpened spoon".

There are several more pressing matters I think the game could be going. The game used to be fun because it was "fantasy". Hell I know things break and in real life I get pretty pissed when my 3000$ tv frys out. But then I have a choice don't I. I can either work and save my money, which would only take a few months time to get a new TV, or I could settle for less of a TV.

In gemstone with the current rate of income I make during a regular hunt. It would take...3,500 hunting trips to replace just ONE of my characters gear. And thats not some of my more expensive things.

3,500 hunting trips for me is about one every 15 minutes. Thats 875 hours of non-stop hunting. Which would be about 875,000 experience. Or 17.5 levels. I average about one level a month. So now your looking at about one year and a half after my gear breaks I will just have replaced it all, if nothing else has broken along the way.

At my current expense rate for GS. Which is 170$ a month on average, I will have paid 3,060$ to simu.

To look at it that way, thats a lot of cash to pay to have the chance to be more unhappy for that period of time because items might break. I would rather spend the 3k on a TV and take the chance it might break.

I just feel that Gemstone is turning away from a fantasy realm into a "to much reality" realm.

I enjoy my time in Gemstone, however there are so many things that are currently making my time less enjoyable then before, that this is just another one. Say the straw that broke the back.

Maybe that wasn't so logical, but its late and I am sick so leave me alone.

Buckwheet

reg

This is the way I am looking at breakage. People are already leaving. Cashing out because of the recent post Melissa made.

Now, if they lose 30% of there customer base or revenues. 30% less GMs are needed. I just got myself laid off!

If I owned a company. Then one of my managers made me lose 30% of the revenues. You are fired! Stupid Stupid Stupid.

Bottom line. Majority doesn't want this. There is to much quality competition now out here.

We are now making the game to complicated to play. To frustrating.

I was told new people are leaving because of the economy. They can't get any wealth except to buy it off of ebay.... Hello! Treasure system! This is not the fault of the cash merchants. hell, the price of coins for cash are dropping lower and lower.

I know I am canceling my second account. I have went from 5 accounts to 2. Now breakage is coming and I am going to take a break and only pay for one. Lost my extra money. But hey. Guess Simutronic employees really could care less. This is about personal agendas, not Gemstone.

You would think when people refer to breakage as Doomsday. You would think twice.

::Realizes he's been talking to a wall::

Hell, majority of the staff don't want breakage. They actually care about their jobs and the game.

edge

reg

Now, if they lose 30% of there customer base or revenues. 30% less GMs are needed. I just got myself laid off! -edge

GMs are overworked as it is, I'd see it more like 30% of the customers that GMs don't like dealing with in the first place leave, time to throw a party. Besides, GMs are volunteers, they can't get laid off.

Bottom line. Majority doesn't want this. There is to much quality competition now out here.

Well get rid of that majority and we'll be left with the good minority, a majority liked communism in the USSR too, that did a whole hell of a lot of good.

And again, many of these people who are "leaving" will come back all too soon when merchants start selling really powerful items. They don't want to start a level 1 character in EQ or UO (unless they want to buy one).

Breakage shmeakage I say, bring it on.

-Revalos
reg

<I was told new people are leaving because of the economy. They can't get any wealth except to buy it off of ebay.... Hello! Treasure system! This is not the fault of the cash merchants. hell, the price of coins for cash are dropping lower and lower. >>

AMEN. The treasure system absolutely BLOWS. I think it was Aephir, but he completely ruined it. I never have and never will buy silvers or items off ebay, but I'll tell you what. With the way the treasure system currently is, the rich get richer and poor get poorer. I'm sure this was the intention.

Sonic reg

RE: The treasure system.

No, Aephir was looooong gone before the current iteration of the treasure system was put into place, so don't blame him, he's the guy who made the Rift what it is, blame him for that...heh

Secondly, I've hunted in Solhaven since my 25th train, and I've never ever been dissapointed by what the creatures drop there. Why? I have no clue. Over my time there mezics have dropped sapphires-diamonds-sapphires-topaz
depending on hunting pressure, pra'eda and fenghai are and have always been practically rolling in the gemstones, and shan can go from zircon-diamond-sapphire-zircon depending on hunting pressure in bonespear and shan. And vesperti? Well, boxes you can't even put in your largest container should explain that one pretty well.

It may be cliche now, but if what you're hunting is poor, try something else.

-Revalos reg

I don't think GMs get overworked as it is, I think Simu has an unorganized method of hiring GMs.

All it would take would be a group of paid staff to implement systems in the game. You hire GM A, and he's incharge of working on things involving wizardry, he gets paid by the hour, and he has deadlines on when a project must be completed. If he continuously doesn't meet deadlines, then he gets fired and another GM is hired to take his place.

Volunteer GMs and Hosts would still exist, but they would be given much less responsibilities, like perhaps implementing verbs every now and then, or doing much lower priority systems.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

Umm...GMs get paid. Whether it's cash or perks. They are getting something above and beyond what a normal player that pays for his accounts gets.

A GM doesn't have to worry about the problems or breakage we do.

God, if you think they do. Well, I wish I had some of those drugs.

Believe me. Nobody works for free in this world. They want something out of it. But, you can go on with that line of thinking.

edge

[This message has been edited by edge (edited 10-11-2001).] reg

The oddest thing I am noticing from my perspective that policy rewards the Majority yet game mechanics do not. The logic escapes me.

Anyone who has spent years scraping away the silvers or the time invested waiting at the mere chance of getting an item padded or weighted will feel cheated by this change. That is very normal.

I think the issue truly isn't breakage but the consistency and application of judgement by Simutronics management over the years. This factor alone seems to be the biggest in eroding the patience and loyalty of the long term customer.

Hiway reg

Ah, ignorance is bliss... Frankly, very little the GMs do ever seems to bother me in any kind of negative way. I may be annoyed sometimes, but I rarly ever get mad, and have never had the slightest inclination to cancel my account for that kind of reason. Breakage doesn't bother me, empath spells being several months late didn't bother me. I've adapted to every chance they've tossed out, I'll adapt to breakage. I duno, I've never been quite right in the head, maybe that's just it.

Asmodea Drey'Haus reg

GM volunteers do not get paid by legal definition. Many of them (I think the majority) by legal definition are volunteers. My statement involved the distinction between a volunteer staff member, and a paid staff member.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

quote:
Originally posted by LordKranar:
GM volunteers do not get paid by legal definition. Many of them (I think the majority) by legal definition are volunteers. My statement involved the distinction between a volunteer staff member, and a paid staff member.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard


GM's do get paid. I do not know the amount nor the policy for the pool of money that is distributed, but the fact is they get paid. It states so on Simutronic's GM application and statements on their official site.


Hiway

reg

<< It states so on Simutronic's GM application and statements on their official site. >>

That's actually misleading. The GMs who are paid staff work at Simu and are the senior GMs. There may be two or three who are also payed GMs, but I doubt anymore than that. The rest of the GMs can dip into a money pool and split the earnings, gets them enough to buy them pizza when working, but it's not a job.

The intention of my post is that if you have staff who get paid to work for Simu instead of these volunteers who may make tomatos for cash then things in GS would be implemented on time and on a regular basis.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

quote:

t. I never have and never will buy silvers or items off ebay, but I'll tell you what. With the way the treasure system currently is, the rich get richer and poor get poorer. I'm sure this was the intention.

it was, the majority of simu workers are republican...

quote:

Believe me. Nobody works for free in this world.

I don't think Ive ever recieved any type of payment for being administrator...

Besides being able to make fun of peoples websites behind their back, i can't think of one perk of this "job"...


'lood

reg

I have never seen any official or heard how large this pool of money is or how it is determined how it is distributed (dipped?).

Work is more than compensation. Happiness in a job, hobby, or other element in your life is hard to equate to monetary wealth.

I will save my opinions for the motivations and reasons why some select individuals are GMs...

Hiway reg

<<Work is more than compensation. Happiness in a job, hobby, or other element in your life is hard to equate to monetary wealth.>>

No matter how hard you tell some people this, they will never believe it. One day, they hopefully will figure it out on their own, but will never take you seriously.

Sonic reg

All this is nice, but it really wasn't the point of my post.

Simu wouldn't be paying (I don't think any business would) 20-30 bucks an hour for the work that GMs currently do. That would be a total waste since (and this isn't an insult), the work GMs do isn't worth 30 bucks an hour for Simu to pay for.

If however Simu did pay their GMs a salary (and I mean a salary, not some nice feeling inside that makes them feel special or a pat on the back) then Simu would be in a better position to hire GMs that are comitted to their jobs, and fire the ones who aren't.

The ones getting 30 bucks an hour from their salary would be working on the higher priority systems that are much needed. The volunteer GMs wouldn't.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

Preaching to this member of the choir Kranar.

I agree and have spouted that same line of reasoning for years.

Real soon now.

Hiway reg

If they hire salaried GMs and curtailed volunteer GM work they'd first proabably have most of the volunteers quit, and most of us remember how much fun Aephir's departure was, the game got set back at least a year if not more, heck we're still recovering from that. Now if ALL the GMs quit, well, you can kiss any game support goodbye for 5 years or more while the new salaried GMs figure out all this stuff.

Come to think of it they'd probably have to retool the game from the ground up, which definately would mean quite a few months of downtime, meaning no income for Simu, meaning they can't afford to pay these new GMs.

Its a cycle y'all, if Simu didn't have volunteers it'd fall apart, the only answer would be to start salarizing the existing GMs, and with y'all's opinions of them would that be reason enough to have to pay $30 for basic, 50$ for premium, $100 for Plat at minimum?

I agree that IF the game had started with salaried employees, it'd be a much better game. But it didn't and it'll never be financially feasable for Simu to start paying more salaries unless they invent some virus that crashes AC, UO, and EQ and get all those players here.

-Revalos reg