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Presidency, Economy, etc

04:36 PMWe were asked to move this thread to Off topic. I have included all posts pertaining to the topic here.
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Wonder? Me? Of course not. The sociopaths with training wheels get older (note I did not say grow up) and then we vote for them for president.

Desharei

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Originally posted by Desharei:
Wonder? Me? Of course not. The sociopaths with training wheels get older (note I did not say grow up) and then we vote for them for president.


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Yep and thank God Clinton is out of office but now we have to deal with his wife in the Senate.

::mutter::

Mallagra

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Yes thank god clinton is out and bush is in, wait, no, that is what I WOULD say, if I were bludgeoned with a hammer to the head many, MANY times.
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I got no dukes.


Fralcon

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I don't see what President Bush has done that is so wrong on the other hand former President Clinton by no means was the best President nor will Bush be either.
I believe President Bush has done a very good job so far and hope he will continue to in the future.


Mallagra


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I realize that this is totally off topic but I figured I would throw my two cents in. Clinton was a very good president. We all know its about the people who work under him, but hey he chose some of em! Throwing a few thoughts out at yahs. Bush wants to be a famous president like his dad was and his gulf war. So he is having his own war. But what has bothered me the most about him...his stupid tax refund check. That was the worst thing anybody could do. Where did that money come from in the first place? Duh paychecks. And what do we pay in our paychecks? Social Security. And how old am I? 20. Now I am going to have to pay social security out of my paycheck for the next 10 years. And hey what will I ever get out of it? The old fart that flicks me off when I am driving because I am "too young" to know how to drive right. But hey at least all you older people got a piece of my money and will have a happy retirement. Oh one more thing about Bush. Yah this great idea of putting social security money towards stocks so we can make more money. This has to be the dumbest idea I have ever heard. If you have ever American putting money in the stock market (except for government employees) how will any money ever be made!? Nobody will ever want to buy stocks because their will be way too much out there. Not too mention half of America knows absolutely nothing about the market and they could lose tons of money. Just like this whole Enron deal. That is the biggest fraud case I have heard of in my lifetime. Those excutives will get what is coming to them even if the government doesn't get em. Those were peoples hard working money. Ok now that I am on a tandgent I shall go to bed. Although out of this even though I think Bush is behind this whole war...I am glad he is the president more than Gore because the "Man" who created the "Internet" couldn't tell a hole in the ground from his you know what....
Lord Deprav

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Interesting perspective Deprav,
I will tell you there was very little I can agree with you other than Enron was a fraud.

Just to touch on a few points.

President Clinton spent his whole presidency trying to be the next President Kennedy. He was a very self-center person who only thought of himself. Yes, he did a few things that were nice but for the most part he used his charisma and all his polls to determine what to do based on the will of the people. This does not make a good President in my opinion.

As to putting our social security money into the stock market. I believe not all of it would go but only a portion of it. Stock prices are not controlled by just the amount of money in the market. Yes, it's true as investors invest in a stock the stock price does fluctuate based on supply and demand more or less. As I have learned for the most part, stock prices or the market that is is affected by three factors which are the economy, the condition of the industry the company is in and the profitability of the company.

I work for a fortune 100 company and have worked with the financial systems very closely. Through this, I have seen very much how each of these three indicators affect the companies stock.

Now, the biggest problem with social security for the most part is that there are more people drawing on the program than there is contributing which is the reason why the system will go broke before I even retire. Also, there is no money in the program in the first place because it's basically a Ponzi scheme. There are many reason why the program will not work in the future and what President Bush is keep social security alive. I believe the right step towards fixing it all is to allow Americans to control a portion of this money to do with as we wish.

But as it stands, I doubt it will ever happen which is the reason I am poorly 15% of my paycheck into my 401k plan every year. I don't think there will be any social security and I will never be dependant on the government.

Last comment in regard to you thinking this war is President Bush's idea. We have no choice and we need to go afte these terrorist or we will regret it in the future. These people want to kill every American, they hate Americans and what we stand for. All I can say is that it was never President Bush's intention when he first became President to start another gulf war to be the popular President as his father was during the Gulf War.

Let me know what you think. . .

Mallagra

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Ok gotta go to work...But President Clinton helped our economy greatly. Bush's term has done nothing so far to help it. The only positive thing I have seen out of it is the idea that we have so many allies. Which isn't very much, but I am happy that has been shown. Maybe Clinton was kinda like Kennedy. But if you ask people they will tell you he was one of our bests.
Glad we agree on social security. But you have to realize that the stock market cannot hold that much money. There arent enough businesses out there that are part of the market if everyone puts their money in it. It will drown itself sooner than later. And yes the main profit margin of the stock market relies on the selling and trading of stock and the rise and downfall of businesses revenue. Sorry don't have more time. Work.

Lord Deprav

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Guess not Kranar.
Clinton bad, Bush not too shabby.

Jeff Bridges for President 2004!

Alright so the man impressed me in "The Contender".. sue me.

CrystalTears


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Originally posted by Mallagra:
President Clinton spent his whole presidency trying to be the next President Kennedy. He was a very self-center person who only thought of himself. Yes, he did a few things that were nice but for the most part he used his charisma and all his polls to determine what to do based on the will of the people. This does not make a good President in my opinion.

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Heh... Nixon was more self-centered, egotistical, and greedy than any of them. He just got caught. :P

On a side note, the mention of Kennedy made me think of something, especially since I live in Dallas. Has anyone ever seen the 4 (maybe 5?) part special on the History Channel about the assasination? It was quite interesting. If anyone is interested in the area, I suggest you try to find it on tape or something.


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-Emtel


[This message has been edited by Mallagra (edited 02-01-2002).] reg

04:58 PMNo matter what happens I still have to call them all the honorable Mr. ..... Ah the joys of service.

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Anticor Rifling, Giantman Wizard reg

05:24 PM
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Ok gotta go to work...But President Clinton helped our economy greatly. Bush's term has done nothing so far to help it. The only positive thing I have seen out of it is the idea that we have so many allies. Which isn't very much, but I am happy that has been shown. Maybe Clinton was kinda like Kennedy. But if you ask people they will tell you he was one of our bests.
Glad we agree on social security. But you have to realize that the stock market cannot hold that much money. There arent enough businesses out there that are part of the market if everyone puts their money in it. It will drown itself sooner than later. And yes the main profit margin of the stock market relies on the selling and trading of stock and the rise and downfall of businesses revenue. Sorry don't have more time. Work.
Lord Deprav

Interesting you thought the success of the economy was because of President Clinton. I on the other hand give credit to the econonmy because of the Republican controlled house and senate and the former President.

Usually we don't see the long-term affects of the President's budgets for quite a while. So, I have always believed the growth the econonmy in the 1990s was because of the economic policies of the 1980's. So, by this logic I believe we will experience the affects of the economic policies of the 1990's in this decade.

One last thought of the econonmy. One other area which the Presidents never have any control is Alan Greenspan and the Federal Reserve. I consider him to the fore runner and we should all give him 80 to 90% of the economies credit to him. The recession we are in now is just the normal cycle of macro-economics but also is due to Alan Greenspans reluctance to loosen the interest rates. I could keep going but I think you get the idea where I am coming from.

As to the stock market . . . . this is a free market society. So by this, we should be able to put as much money in the market as we want to gain the greatest return. I don't think privatizing a portion of social security allowing people to invest it in the market would hurt. Actually, the market would do very well if this was allowed. The market is only as finite as what people want it to be. So, if someone wants to sell stock and there is a buyer, this transaction should take place. If there is no buyer, then the transaction would just be the opposite.

What makes the market successful is not only the investors buying stocks, bonds or anything else sold but also the econonmy, the success of the business and the industries the business reside in. I believe it would a win-win scenerio for all of us especially for those of us under 40 years who most likely would not have any social security when we are at the minimum age of retirement which will be 67 years. <cringe>.

Also, if social security isn't privatized there will only be one avenue left which will keep it a float and that is raising the FICA tax. This is the only choice until congress figures out a better solution. So, no matter the decision our decision should be to save as much money as we can in 401k, IRAs, or any other investment whether be tax sheltered or not for the future.


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There arent enough businesses out there that are part of the market if everyone puts their money in it. It will drown itself sooner than later.

Could you explain this thought, I'm not following it. . . but other than that, I hope you understand where I am coming from.

Mallagra

reg

07:55 PMWell basically if ever person didn't have a choice but to put so much money in the stock market and lets say it is quite a bit just for causes sake...There would not be as many stocks to go around. So then this brings up that we will need more stocks to fullfill the governments mistake. Ok so we expand it. Well if you have people buying so many shares of it there is no survival chance. Because if everyones money is there that means the business is going to be too rich. So the business makes so much money things will become cheaper. Things will become so cheap that money will become extremely common. (not saying that it isn't already but we're talking might not be a point of silver)Is this a good thing? I am not sure. I guess you do explain yourself and your points good. I just analyze things too much and always bring out the worst that could come. I just could see this happening. Oh and just a little secret Alan Greensban takes credit for what he did. I highly doubt it that he would have such a great control of the interest rate. We all know he controls the market. But who really does? The people behind the Federal Reserve. Our government owes them so much money. They decided truely if the government is going to get away with that. You might disagree with me on that which alot of people do but if yah can try and look at it under who has power and who owes people with power.

Here I will leave yah all with an interesting fact for the night. I am in multiple stock market classes right now at school. My teacher during class called Meryll Lynch. He wanted to purchase stock from Enron. They refused to sell it to him unless he could lay 100,000 on it. And he also asked about K-Mart and that was at a 1.49 a share...So tempting on K-Mart...But I would not suggest anyone buys it.

Lord Deprav reg