The Players Corner Archive

In one of the Carolinas (I can never remember which) there's no state sales tax or special added fees on cigarettes at all. The going rate at JR's (the standard stop-off for anyone who smokes and drives through the Carolinas) for a carton of brand-name cigarettes is around $22.00. That's $2.20 per pack, before any discounts or special offers or coupons. Usually I can pick up a carton of Camel Lights (filters, in a box) for around $15 per carton if I bring coupons or if they're having a "buy 2 get 1 free" promotion.

Okay, that's base retail price before taxes.

In Connecticut, we have "minimum prices" for cigarettes. Meaning, our state law (or maybe it's Federal? ::shrugs: requires that retailers cannot sell cigarettes BELOW a certain minimum. This again does not include discounts, promotions, or coupons offered by the manufacturer.

The current minimum price was something like $3.21 per pack. This included THREE special taxes charged supposedly to offset the cost of cancer research and other educational programs in the state.

They just added a new "tax" (that's what they're calling it), of 61 cents PER PACK. That's $6.10 per carton. In addition to the already taxed $32.10 per carton.

Okay, all fine and good - but that's only until you realize that the STATE tax of 6% is added AFTER those other taxes are added.

This is clearly a violation of federal tax laws and is technically "taxation without representation." Tax on tax. Against federal law.

And yet, because of anti-smoker lobbyists in the State House, the state of Connecticut is getting away with it. And they have been getting away with it ever since they found out that cigarettes were "officially" unhealthy.

And then here's the kicker: Research from Yale University, Dartmouth, UCLA, and a myriad of health organizations have documented that an addiction to nicotine is *more difficult to get over than addiction to heroine.*

My health insurance actually covers rehab for substance abuse. Yours might, though not all do. Every major corporation that has an Employee Assistance Program provides substance abuse treatment for addicts.

Except for nicotine addiction. Health insurance doesn't cover it. In fact, there is no such place as a rehab center for nicotine addicts. They just plain don't exist.

I have a problem with that. I'd give my eye teeth to quit smoking. I hate smoking. It's disgusting, filthy, smelly, and dangerous.

But I'm addicted to nicotine and because I have low blood pressure and acute migraine syndrome I cannot take those nicotine replacement pills, or use the patches, or chew the gum. I've even tried hypnotism at my own expense, and succeeded in finding out only that I can't be hypnotized.

So, because I have an addiction that's recognized as a valid drug addiction by the US Government, to a substance that is LEGAL to use without a prescription, and I *cannot* quit on my own, and there is *no* help available for me, I have to also dish out this new added $6.10 per carton - and then just kick me in the face by taxing me on that tax.

If I could, I'd quit just to spite the government for daring to tax me on tax. But I can't. And they know it. Which is exactly why they can get away with it. Because they know they can charge me $100 a pack and I'll pay the price, or get arrested eventually when I get caught stealing to feed my addiction.

R

[This message has been edited by Desharei (edited 04-02-2002).] reg

Sonic reg

The government of our state was all excited about the revenue this added tax would bring in. And in just this first day alone, they've LOST money. They'll continue to lose money, as more and more people find other ways of getting the cigarettes (black market - yeah we have that already), rolling their own (loose tobacco is cheaper), quitting - for those who are lucky to be able - and driving to New Hampshire and stocking up.

My old neighbors where I lived til November contacted me and told me they're going to visit relatives in Georgia next month. I got my check all written out already for them to pick me up a case of Camels at JR's.

reg

1) The money should go toward rehab for people who want to quit but need help, AND to cancer research. Currently it is not going to either, and never did. Only a minute proportion has been sent to cancer research and the rest went into the "general fund" of the state.

2) The state sales tax is not, nor was ever, supposed to be applied to other existing taxes. It is a federal crime to charge tax on tax. The State of Connecticut is not complying with this law, and they are being allowed to get away with it.

Those are my ONLY two issues with the increases. You wanna tax me up the yin-yang because I smoke? FINE. Then use some of that money to help me quit smoking. I don't think that's too much to ask. reg

Doesn't hurt me any. They already make it so you can't smoke anywhere anyway.

I recently made a 10 hr car trip to myrtle beach with two smokers, i didn't mind.

To the whole nation i say, just roll down the window...

'lood
reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Desharei:
And in just this first day alone, they've LOST money. They'll continue to lose money, as more and more people find other ways of getting the cigarettes

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quote:

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Doesn't hurt me any. They already make it so you can't smoke anywhere anyway.

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Obviously you weren't raised in a house with a smoker, otherwise it would have hurt you. (I wasn't, but I have a couple of friends who were.)

I agree it's stupid to have state taxes that vary greatly. I'm for a heavy federal tax that would NOT goto rehab, but I see nothing at all wrong with cancer research. I think the latter is much, much better idea as it benefits everyone.

Sonic reg

If your parents are smoking in the house with kids then I don't think cigarettes are your main concern there.

'lood reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Desharei:
I *cannot* quit on my own, and there is *no* help available for me

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And I hope you're not presuming to compare yourself to a heroin addict, because you'll get no sympathy from me. I've known heroin addicts and I've known smokers and... no. reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Desharei:
I *cannot* quit on my own, and there is *no* help available for me.

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It's called will power, and yes it really is that simple.

Sonic
reg

Used to be $3.50 for a pack. Could by a pack and a lighter with a five and still have change. Cartons were $27.00. Now, packs are $6.50, cartons are $42.00. Rediculous.

One plus side, less kids are smoking. Too expensive.

I have no real proof for that, but there are WAY less kids smoking at school these days. I guess thats a good thing.

G reg

I have gone to two physicians - one my "normal" doctor, and another who specializes in psychotherapeutic medicines for addictive personalities.

Both agree that I am not a candidate for any nicotine replacements or programs, and the low blood pressure and migraine syndrome prevent me from eligibility for the new shot that's out now.

The last time I tried to quit, I ended up in bed with delerium tremens for two days, and almost ended up in the hospital to be treated for severe shock.

I WANT to quit. I have TRIED to quit. I hate smoking. Hate it with a passion. I look with disgust when I see children lighting up. I sit in the no-smoking section of restaurants just so I don't have to be subjected to it while I eat.

But as soon as I'm done eating, my body demands nicotine. I must have it. It isn't a "craving." It's a physical need, without which I suffer horrible and debilitating withdrawal.

I'm not unique in this. It's very common. And yes Gnomad, it can certainly be compared to heroin addiction, because both are physical chemical addictions to toxic chemicals that destroy the body. The main difference (among many others) is that one is legal, and the other is not. One has rehab centers where people can be locked away and strapped down until their bodies are purged of the poison. The other does not.

R
reg

Sonic reg

Also about 95% of the people I know smoke right now, it doesn't bother me but personally I can't justify paying 6 bucks for a pack of cigarettes when I can buy a Big Mac with coke instead.

I don't think cigarette cravings are that bad though. I think it just takes moderation and will power to get rid of the craving completely. Start with nicotine patches, gums, smoke 1 less cigarette a week. Sorry, I don't buy the "I can't quit" thing either.

Bianca reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Alfador:
Just try sucking up the withdrawal for awhile...
Sonic

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Try smoking for a few years, then quitting, then come talk to me.

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I got no dukes. reg

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I got no dukes. reg

So what do you think about people who sue cigarette companies?

Of course there are the two sides to this arguement, and I'm not really decided on either side. There's the arguement that the person should have known beforehand that smoking would have resulted in serious health problems and so it's his fault and responsibility. Surely if you're handed a dangerous product and it acts against you as you've been warned it would, you shouldn't expect to make millions off of it.

However there's also the arguement that we have companies selling poison to society and making billions of dollars off of seeing us die. Do they not bear responsibility for continuing to distribute a dangerous product regardless of what warning the consumer may have been given? Afterall, if this warning is genuine and in good spirit, wouldn't the company simply cease to produce the product?

Like I said, both arguements really have me pinned, maybe one of you guys can get me convinced as to why companies should or shouldn't be expected to pay and be held accountable for our deaths/stupidity.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard

[This message has been edited by LordKranar (edited 04-02-2002).] reg

I know this is the case in Idaho. reg

Does a product NEED to have a disclaimer for the company to be absolved of liability if the user abuses it?

Does a box of needles need a disclaimer telling its users not to injest because it may cause internal bleeding and possible permanent injuries?

Does an outlet need a disclaimer saying not to insert metal objects in the slots for possible execution?

Does a bag of potato chips need to have a disclaimer actually saying you can't eat just one and may cause weight gain?

Want to know what scares me? Is that these disclaimers on things like toasters (do not poke with metal objects to avoid electricution), hair dryers (don't use in the shower), plastic shopping bags (not a child's toy.. love this one) and so forth had to put in the first place because people don't use common sense anymore. If they get hurt, they can just sue the company which will eliminate any need to claim responsibility for their actions. And what's even scarier is that the companies give in and settle! reg

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I got no dukes. reg

While I don't necessarily think it's right that the smoker's can sue. I hate these companies and I think they need to pay one way or another for the millions of lives they've cut short. I really abhor these corporations and I will support anything that hurts them.

Sonic reg

In fact, smoking does have a temporary drying effect on people with bronchitis, and can actually be soothing *for a short duration* once the initial inhale gets into the lungs. It was this and similar stories that prompted the "healthy smoker" ads in magazines and early television.

Not too long after this "healthy smoker" phase (within one decade), apparently some of the cigarette companies found out, or somehow knew, that their product might be harmful. They also began adding things to the tobacco, such as saltpeter and formaldehyde. These things were known, even then, to be dangerous. And yet the medical community still didn't make a public statement about this until long after the trend of additives begun.

To those who started smoking when the tobacco companies first started pouring additives in the brew, I'd say sue them for everything they're worth.

To anyone who started smoking once the government began investigating, and the medical community started offering conclusive evidence of the dangers, I say we're all SOL, tough noogies, we should've known better and not started in the first place.

No one who started smoking as early as the late 60's can say in any sincerety that they didn't know there was some risk in their actions. Hell, I knew there was a risk, but I was young and foolish and wanted to be liked by the popular kids, and they all smoked. It's no excuse. There is no excuse, now.

But decades ago, there was. It was supposed to be GOOD for you. Just like Coke was a rejuvenative tonic, a peptic containing honest to god cocaine, until the medical world pointed out that cocaine is not a very good thing to be putting into soda-pop.

The tobacco companies shouldn't be punished for things they didn't know long ago. They also shouldn't be punished for things WE have known about for decades and have chosen, for whatever reason, to ignore when we first started smoking.

However - there is still that window of time, in which the tobacco companies KNEW they were poisoning people and kept quiet about it, hiding the evidence and denying they were doing it. People who began smoking during this window should get everything they possibly can, and I would support their efforts 100%.

R
reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Desharei:
And yes Gnomad, it can certainly be compared to heroin addiction, because both are physical chemical addictions to toxic chemicals that destroy the body.

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(Yes, I know it can happen.) reg

Will power has everything to do with quitting whatever it may be you're trying to quit.

People say when they try and quit smoking, they go through withdrawls and get sick, well that happens with anything that you try to quit that you've been used to for years. Whether it's going on a diet, breaking up with a loved one, going online less, or whatever it may be, the same applies to all.

When you break up with that loved one, you go crazy wanting them back, you can't get them off your mind, you ache and crave for them and every other feeling you can think of. What you need to do is have will power and get your mind off things and forget about them. The more you see or hear about that person, the more it makes you think of them and then you'll never end up being cured.

Going on a diet. Hell, I love to eat -- everyone does. But once I notice I have to ease up and lose that lil belly I'm gaining, I have to do something about it. If you're used to eating pizzas, burgers, or whatever it may be and then you have to suddenly eat less, change the type of food you're eating, it'll make you go nuts too. The new food may not fill you up and it'll have you craving for something else, but if you have more, it'll do you no good. At first you go through the stomach growling and pains due to wanting to eat, but after the pain, your stomach starts to shrink and you're now used to that low amount of food intake. Remember, no pain, no gain!

This is all basically the same with trying to quit smoking. What you need to do is get away from all the smoke and anything else that'll remind you of it. After that, you'll still wanna have one due to it being a routine, but you gotta do your best to stop. You may even end up getting sick due to not having it for whatever reason, but after you go through a few battles, you'll get used to it and then your body will be used to not having any smokes. Most people when they try and stop an addiction, they usually give up once they reach that middle part where they ache and feel sick. You have to keep going and going. Remember, no pain, no gain. Will power has everything to do with stopping an addiction, but too bad most people don't like fighting things out and they have to give up and/or place blame elsewhere for their failure.

- Pudgee

[This message has been edited by Pudgee (edited 04-03-2002).] reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Pudgee:
This is all basically the same with trying to quit smoking. What you need to do is get away from all the smoke and anything else that'll remind you of it. After that, you'll still wanna have one due to it being a routine, but you gotta do your best to stop. You may even end up getting sick due to not having it for whatever reason, but after you go through a few battles, you'll get used to it and then your body will be used to not having any smokes. Most people when they try and stop an addiction, they usually give up once they reach that middle part where they ache and feel sick. You have to keep going and going. Remember, no pain, no gain. Will power has everything to do with stopping an addiction, but too bad most people don't like fighting things out and they have to give up and/or place blame elsewhere for their failure.
- Pudgee

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I agree whole-heartedly. Quitting smoking first requires a desire to quit. You're not going to quit if you don't really want to quit. I quit cold turkey from smoking 2-1/2 to 3 packs a day. I haven't smoked in 15 years now.
The trick is to make yourself want to stop. You have to want to stop more than your addiction can overcome. Here's a trick to try that will help that. Go visit your nearest veteran's hospital. Find a smoking area outside. Look for the little old men using jury-rigged holders so they can smoke through the trachyotomy tubes in their necks after having parts of their throats removed due to cancer. This image will never leave you. Eventually it will be strong enough to use as bludgeon against the "need" for a cigarette and help with the willpower to quit. Helped for me. Everytime I lit up, I thought about the poor old men I saw at a VA hospital. Eventually I wanted to quit more than I needed to smoke. So I quit.
Also, avoid going out drinking for a few months after you quit. A habit of smoking while drinking, combined with the affects of alcohol on judgement end up being enough to break even the most steadfast attempt at quitting. You're better off avoiding that situation until your desire for nicotine has lessened somewhat.
When you're done you will thank yourself and your pocket book will thank you. And the government will get a lot less of your money to spend - liberals less to spend on big government, and conservatives less to spend on making themselves richer off of your taxes. reg

quote:

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When you're done you will thank yourself and your pocket book will thank you. And the government will get a lot less of your money to spend - liberals less to spend on big government, and conservatives less to spend on making themselves richer off of your taxes.

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Hahah, give me a break, really. This topic is only about SMOKING. While I agree with what you said 100% with regards to that. This last comment is not only pointless, but untrue. Who the hell wants taxes at 50% or higher? Republicans? Try again.

Sonic reg

I don't drink more than a few glasses of wine with dinner in any given month combined..so that isn't a problem at all. Plus I don't go out partying (I'm married - those days are LONG gone).

I have taken a first step by living with a rule hubby implemented when we moved into this house: No smoking in the bedroom.

I've also started eating more at the kitchen table instead of on the lazy boy in the living room. This seems to be helping me cut back somewhat, at least during meals. It makes me "feel" as if I'm eating like a civilized human being again instead of just shovelling the food in like an automaton.

Change habits that I *can* change, and maybe some of the ones I have so much trouble with will be easier when I get to them. Know what I mean?

I'm also trying to not smoke in the car. This has proven more difficult, especially on long trips. But I can actually get to the supermarket and back without lighting up, so it's a start.

Now that the weather's getting better, I'll be able to get out into the fresh air more and ride my bicycle again. Can't smoke while I'm biking, all my concentration goes into keeping me from riding over a pebble and landing head-first on someone's driveway.

Cutting down won't cure the addiction. Just makes it harder, makes me nastier and more physically nervous (I get the shakes if I haven't had my nic fix in awhile).

The hospital thing won't work - tried that already. Just makes me get that twitch even more, and I end up smoking twice as much.

What I need - if only something could be invented - is something that will make my body forget it ever smoked in the first place. To start from scratch, where I'm presented with my very first cigarette so I can say, "Nah, I don't smoke thanks."

R
reg

I'm watching my father die. I've lived my life hoping that he would live long enough to see me through the landmarks, graduation from high school, college, and now, to walk me down the aisle. I'm hoping he will live to see my first child, so he or she can know what a wonderful man he is. My father was a soldier for 27 years. He was always a very fit man. But...He smoked.

He grew up in the generation that associated smoking with masculinity. He will stop smoking, despite all of our pleas and the advice of the doctors, when "they shovel the last dirt on my coffin." I watched him nearly die during surgery when i was in college, having a triple bypass. And I watched him manage to get up the very first moment he was allowed, and get wheeled downstairs so he could smoke outside. His coughs scare me each time I hear them (They seem to last forever with that horrible phlegmy sound), and I grew up listening to the sounds of his gasps and wheezes in the middle of the night, followed by an eternal pause (sleep apnea, another byproduct). He's got the beginning stages of emphesema. The skin on his hands is paper thin. If he knocks his hand against anything, they bruise horribly and swell, and the skin tears (smoking causes a severe shortage of the B vitamins, which help keep your skin elastic, causing wrinkles etc.) Despite all of this, he won't stop, although he did cut down.

That's my basis for my passion against smoking. I'm watching him burn his life away every time he lights up. The physical and psychological need for him to keep smoking far outweighs anything else.

Suggestions for people who want to stop smoking---Stock up on the B vitamins, which are burned up by smoking AND stress. You're under both, and it helps. Look into Valerian root, which is an herb which helps to relax you. Perhaps consult an herbalist to see if they have further suggestions. If medicine such as nicotine patches can't help, look into other alternatives. I'm not suggesting this is anywhere near the same, but ANYTHING that helps is good.

Get a dayplanner. Take how many cigarettes you smoke on average, then cut it down by 2. Plan your smoke breaks. Every 3 days, cut back by 1 cigarette. Maybe a slow wean will help you. Cold turkey is not for everyone. This way, you may be starting the shakes, but you know it's only 30 minutes until the next one...or an hour til the next one.

Get yourself a jar, and put the money you are saving from not buying cigarettes into it. Find something you REALLY want like a trip or new clothes, etc that you are saving it towards. ONLY use cigarette money for it. You can also get a calculator and see how much money you really spend in a year. What else could you do with the money?

I am by no means a counselor. These are just things that people I know used to help them become smoke free. The bottom line is how badly do you want to quit? Willpower really is the deciding factor.

And finally, I see what you mean about the taxes Roberta. And it's amazing what the government gets away with when it's dealing with the popular bandwagon issues. Of course, if I were going to change the law, I'd just up the tax percentages, to make up for the change. <g>

I think the high prices help force people to quit, and keeps new people from starting. I was under the impression tho, that the money was going to cancer research and the health care of those dying from smoking. That is something that does need to be changed.

Aerienne

IM me if you want a cheering section for quitting smoking, Roberta. I also have no problems being here if you need someone to scream to because you're going through the shakes.

reg

Aerienne reg

Thanks. Everything you've recommended has been recommended before, and it didn't work, but that was years ago. Maybe this raise in prices is the kick I need to give it another shot.

Well except the dayplanner. I have one, had it for years. I keep forgetting to look in it, and rely on the little clock on my computer's task bar to find out what day it is I just checked my gorgeous leatherbound zippered dayplanner and the last entry in it was August 6, 2001.

Heh.

One more pack til I have to buy more at the new prices. I'll talk to Joehubby when he comes home from work. We both smoke - the same brand and style, so it's gonna be hell around here if we both have to try to quit. And I won't be able to even attempt it if he isn't willing to do the same.

R
reg

'lood
reg

quote:

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I have taken a first step by living with a rule hubby implemented when we moved into this house: No smoking in the bedroom

Desh

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Since you're trying to quit... What about a "No smoking in the house" rule. I don't know where you live but I know a lot of people who will choose to not smoke rather then go out in 20 degree weather just to light up. reg

Not a good idea to impose rules on the guy who pays the mortgage afterall

I am, however, thinking of keeping my cigarettes in the kitchen, so whenever I'm at my computer and "need" a smoke, I have to physically get up and go to the kitchen to get the cigarette.

Like I said, changing habits. Changing "How" you do things can help when you don't want to do them anymore.

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Desharei:

Like I said, changing habits. Changing "How" you do things can help when you don't want to do them anymore.

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One of the problems with trying to cut down is your addiction can overcome your good sense more easily in the small battles. I tried to quit that way many times. In the end, only quitting cold turkey worked. Because instead of hundreds of little battles your will is having with your addiction, where rationalizations like "just one won't hurt" become ammunition for your addiction, you are fighting just one big battle in which your focus is you against the addiction. That's when things like aversion (my VA hospital trick) can really shine.
You have my sympathy and well-wishes in the attempt.

Alfie, I think I'll leave your idiot comments alone. Just one little aside. Care to guess which party controls the state legislatures of the majority of those states which have raised the tax on cigarettes in the last 10 years? Go find out. Not that you'll be enlightened. I've come to understand that that isn't a possibility. Have a nice day.

reg

So, while the promotion for Marlboros was $32.29 this past Monday, the promotion was removed, the increase in cost implemented, the tax increased, all on tuesday, bringing the current *minimum* price of this company's brand-name cigarettes to $47.09 per carton after the state sales tax of 6% is added to the base price.

What does that mean for smokers? Means anyone who was smoking Marlboros is probably gonna switch brands - and fast. Of course I expect R.J. Reynolds to follow suit any day now.

And here's another fun little tidbit to those who think tough noogies for us addicts:

Rumor in the industry has it that the pharmaceutical companies are gearing up plans to increase nicotine replacement medication prices effective ASAP. If you don't think it's such a big deal, consider the *current* cost of consuming 20 pieces of nicotine gum per day over the course of a single month is just over $100.

That's not much less than the cost of just smoking the damned cigarettes, which sometimes contain LESS nicotine than the gum.

Isn't that nice?

R

[This message has been edited by Desharei (edited 04-04-2002).] reg

quote:

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Alfie, I think I'll leave your idiot comments alone. Just one little aside. Care to guess which party controls the state legislatures of the majority of those states which have raised the tax on cigarettes in the last 10 years? Go find out. Not that you'll be enlightened. I've come to understand that that isn't a possibility. Have a nice day.

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I'll guess democrats because I know those taxes exist in the north east and they are all democraticly controlled states. Although just to point out your misunderstanding, I was referring to tax in general, not just specifically cigarette tax. Are you now going to try to deny that democrats are in favor of higher tax? I'd love to see you try, really.

Sonic

edit: One thing I will definitely agree with you on was your take of the whole quitting process. You are definitely right when you say cold turkey is the most effective way to quit. Unlike apparently all of your other opinions, you've got me as an ally on this one; although maybe now that you know this you'll change your mind.

[This message has been edited by Alfador (edited 04-04-2002).] reg

But as I have said, it's been proven, documented, and agreed by the medical community at large that a chemical addiction to nicotine is more difficult to overcome than a chemical addiction to heroin.

Heroin addicts have the ability to overcome their addiction in a controlled medical environment (rehab and hospitals, and even jail for some), nicotine addicts don't have that luxury.

It can be dangerous - yes, I say most emphatically - dangerous - for *some* people to try and quit smoking cold-turkey without medical supervision. I am only one of those people who fall into this category. My insurance doesn't cover it, and I can't afford it otherwise, and the "free programs" offer only support, and not medical supervision.

If I were to try quitting cold turkey, my low blood pressure would rise and fall dramatically and send me into medical shock, requiring emergency care. I just can't afford that luxury right now, if you could call that a luxury.

R - light-headed, dizzy, nauseated, with only 5 cigarettes in the past 7 hours of being awake
reg

I don't disagree with this, although it is a little vague and also misleading in how you state it. It's not an effective arguement to compare the addiction of nicotine to that of heroin.

For some people, not everyone, long term use of nicotine will be as addictive, and can even be more addictive than heroin. But this is strictly very long term use of nicotine and is not the general rule.

Heroin... you take it once and you sign your soul away.

I don't think it's right to compare a heroin addict to a nicotine addict. If someone took heroin as much as someone who was seriously addicted to nicotine smoked, the heroin addict would be in so much more trouble physically, emotionally, and mentally than the nicotine addict.

Nah actually... I take my last statement back. The heroin addict would be dead.

I won't claim to know your level of addiction, infact it seems very serious and I wish you the best in quitting. However I hope you'll understand why I disagree that on the WHOLE, heroin addiction is more severe than nicotine addiction.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard

[This message has been edited by LordKranar (edited 04-04-2002).] reg

Sonic reg

It's a physical thing. I have no idea which requires more willpower, since there's no such thing as lock-down for nic addicts and there is for heroin addicts. I would venture to guess the heroin folks have it easier, because they can be medically and legally forced not to shoot up (lockdown and strap-downs, given methadone treatments while strapped on hospital gourneys, etc.).

The cigarette smoker cannot be medically or legally forced to quit - because there are no institutions dedicated to this cause, and because it is perfectly legal to smoke. The responsibility lies 100% on the smoker. Heroin addicts can toss their responsibility on a doctor or institution.

R
reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Alfador:
I'll guess democrats because I know those taxes exist in the north east and they are all democraticly controlled states. Although just to point out your misunderstanding, I was referring to tax in general, not just specifically cigarette tax. Are you now going to try to deny that democrats are in favor of higher tax? I'd love to see you try, really.
Sonic

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Sometimes it's just too easy. Alfie, here's a quote from you a bit further up the thread:

quote:

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Originally posted by Alfador:
No surprise here, but I definitely support huge taxation of cigarettes. They are going to up it another dollar something in NY too. The more the better I say.
Sonic

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So, my guess would be it's the conservative tax-haters who want to raise the tax and blame it on the Democrats. At least that's the opinion of one of them. Have a nice day.

[This message has been edited by OldTimeGS (edited 04-04-2002).] reg

I find it hard to believe you are as stupid you lead on to be. If I really need to explain this step by step I'll do it.

1. I said I support heavy cigarette tax. There are 2 reasons for this.
i. It's a deterrent to smoking.
ii. It's a penalty for those who do.

2. It's a fact that democrats historically are in favor of higher taxes. Want to refute this? Be my guest.

Does that make sense? Are you capable of putting 2 and 2 together? I hate to be a dick like this, but by playing a purely semantically game you leave me with very little choice. I'm not the quintessential conservative just so you know. I don't agree with absolutely every last issue with conservatives. I just think they have a much better grasp on REALITY, unlike liberals who live in candy land.

That was probably the weakest post I've seen outside the people I don't consider intelligent. Are you really that desperate to attack me? At least wait till you have a reasonable opening... This latest attempt was absurd.

Sonic reg

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I got no dukes.

[This message has been edited by Fralcon (edited 04-04-2002).] reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Alfador:
The more the better I say.

Sonic

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I agree and make it federal so that people can't go to other states to get them for less. Hopfully before I have kids they will make smoking illeagal so they will never have to worry about it. Thank god for California I doubt I could live anywhere else. Once the rest of the nation joins with us it will be a much better smoke free world.
Oh and Robberta once they are illeagal your insurance will cover them I'm sure so it would probably be good for you for them to be made illeagal if you really do care about quiting.

reg