The Players Corner Archive

Home > Clerics > Stat optimization.

Stat optimization.

04:03 PMImportance? Significance? How to? What's different between races/professions?

What's the best stats _you've_ seen ?

Should be an interesting topic.

PS Anyone with any problems...let me know. My Sn is Omnirus. reg

06:34 PMI am of the opinion that anyone making characters now a days with the age cap in place should make a completely optimized character, unless you just play for RP reasons and don't care how well your character does. I didn't make Zanagan optimized because I was planning on picking following finishing the rift, but there went that idea heh. As far as race choice, I alays picked what race I would enjoy playing and no other reason. Certainly there are longterm benefits to choosing the larger races, but all the races are viable for all the professions, and profession choice should never limit your choice on race. I'd have to say the best character stat/skill trainings ive seen would be that of Scintillion,Alfador, Zentalin, and Jaeden, at least these are the ones that have either showed/explained the way they placed and trained and seem well prepared for all recent and upcoming changes.

Mike reg

02:51 PMWhile I have never really played a cleric (mine is level 5) I spent a very long time today in Amerlise's Stat Checker. I set the stats for every race and class to 0, and then added up when each would hit 100 to find out which class and race overall hits 100 the fastest. I found that Sylvan Clerics do it faster than anyone else. While this character's stats all don't hit 100 until level 160, at 125 7 of them are 100's. This character was made on the new 620 point-buy system, and considering that, I believe is pretty good. Here are the stats at level 1:
con 74
dex 81
dis 50
log 55
int 60
str 81
ref 60
cha 60
wis 45
aur 74

They look really bad at first.. and don't get good until very high levels. Here they are at some key levels:

Level 20
Constitution: 79
Dexterity: 85
Discipline: 60
Logic: 65
Intelligence: 66
Strength: 85
Reflexes: 66
Charisma: 60
Wisdom: 67
Aura: 79

Level 35
Constitution: 82
Dexterity: 88
Discipline: 67
Logic: 72
Intelligence: 71
Strength: 88
Reflexes: 71
Charisma: 65
Wisdom: 75
Aura: 82

Level 50
Constitution: 86
Dexterity: 90
Discipline: 75
Logic: 78
Intelligence: 76
Strength: 90
Reflexes: 76
Charisma: 70
Wisdom: 82
Aura: 86

Level 75
Constitution: 92
Dexterity: 95
Discipline: 83
Logic: 86
Intelligence: 83
Strength: 95
Reflexes: 83
Charisma: 78
Wisdom: 93
Aura: 92

Level 90
Constitution: 95
Dexterity: 97
Discipline: 88
Logic: 91
Intelligence: 87
Strength: 97
Reflexes: 87
Charisma: 82
Wisdom: 98
Aura: 95

Level 115
Constitution: 100
Dexterity: 100
Discipline: 96
Logic: 100
Intelligence: 93
Strength: 100
Reflexes: 93
Charisma: 88
Wisdom: 100
Aura: 100

Level 125
Constitution: 100
Dexterity: 100
Discipline: 100
Logic: 100
Intelligence: 96
Strength: 100
Reflexes: 96
Charisma: 91
Wisdom: 100
Aura: 100

While I can make this character have all 100's at level 140, I don't believe that is feasible because you do not attain maximum mana until 105, whereas with the other stat set you get it at 95.

The question is: Would this character be playable, or would it be better to place the stats less GI-oriented? Realize that at level 1 he gets 42/34 for TP's, which is quite low. If you believe this character IS playable, however, a projected training plan would be nice. If you find a way to make a character hit all 100's earlier (with a 620 base roll) I'd love to know. And if you would like me to post the figures I came out with, drop me an IM at Bombsonengland. reg

05:48 PMA fundamental rule that governs optimized characters is that all optimized characters have completely optimized stats AND a concrete training schedule. What this means is that your warrior might be 1x armor, 2x shield, 2x cm, 2x edged, 2x twohanders, 1x climb, 1x swim, 1x pt. Of course you will want other skills like perception but might not be able to get them early so you'll put it off till you have the TPs. You should eventually aim for a plateau or .5x of .75x or something. Another thing, don't rush to finish stuff that maxes (armor maxes).

Sonic reg

09:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Alfador:
A fundamental rule that governs optimized characters is that all optimized characters have completely optimized stats AND a concrete training schedule. What this means is that your warrior might be 1x armor, 2x shield, 2x cm, 2x edged, 2x twohanders, 1x climb, 1x swim, 1x pt. Of course you will want other skills like perception but might not be able to get them early so you'll put it off till you have the TPs. You should eventually aim for a plateau or .5x of .75x or something. Another thing, don't rush to finish stuff that maxes (armor maxes).

Sonic

Alfador I'd love to see your picture of optimization in regards to your character if that's possible...I'm curious because Zanagan told me about your stat placement and it sounds very interesting.

reg

12:08 AMOmni, if you wanna goto the wizards folder.. its got Alfadors training and stats.

As for clerics, heres mine..

Race: Half-Elven Profession: Cleric (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 32 Expr: 55911 Level: 5
Currently Stat Bonus
Constitution (CO): 60 .... 5
Dexterity (DE): 97 .... 28
Discipline (DI): 53 .... -4
Logic (LO): 58 .... 4
Intelligence (IN): 61 .... 5
Strength (ST): 57 .... 3
Reflexes (RE): 90 .... 30
Charisma (CH): 75 .... 17
Wisdom (WI): 60 .... 5
Aura (AU): 90 .... 20
Mana: 5

(at level 5), your skill bonuses and ranks are:
Skill Bonus Rank
-------------------------------------------------------------
Armor Use : 30 [6]
Shield Use : 30 [6]
Combat Maneuvers : 30 [6]
Edged Weapons : 30 [6]
Climbing : 5 [1]
Perception : 30 [6]
Mana Sharing : 30 [6]
Physical Training : 30 [6]
First Aid : 30 [6]
Physical Training Points : 4

Your spell lists:
Major Spirit......4
Minor Spirit......3
Cleric Circle.....5

And just want to mention that my cleric is going to single armor for life. Hes going to be able to swing in full plate. Probobly wont be useful by that time.. But it will be fun. I see alot of clerics stopping at doubles or brig.. not even going to chain.

I also didnt feel that there was anything I needed to be fully doubled in besides spells, so I single everything..

Doesnt max until 140 though.. reg

08:17 AMI yanked my stats/training off the board a few days. I'll repost my stats, but I'm going to hide the training again for a bit.

At 60:

Constitution (CO): 87 .... 18
Dexterity (DE): 80 .... 15
Discipline (DI): 80 .... 15
Logic (LO): 84 .... 22
Intelligence (IN): 87 .... 23
Strength (ST): 96 .... 28
Reflexes (RE): 78 .... 14
Charisma (CH): 96 .... 23
Wisdom (WI): 100 .... 25
Aura (AU): 90 .... 20 reg

05:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Alfador:
I yanked my stats/training off the board a few days. I'll repost my stats, but I'm going to hide the training again for a bit.

At 60:

Constitution (CO): 87 .... 18
Dexterity (DE): 80 .... 15
Discipline (DI): 80 .... 15
Logic (LO): 84 .... 22
Intelligence (IN): 87 .... 23
Strength (ST): 96 .... 28
Reflexes (RE): 78 .... 14
Charisma (CH): 96 .... 23
Wisdom (WI): 100 .... 25
Aura (AU): 90 .... 20

Question:

And you base your optimization of standard GUI's? Or have you researched and found a difference? reg

06:25 PMI place rolls pretty much by the GI with a few things taken into consideration such as profession bonus and usefulness of stat to profession. Placing stats isn't brain surgery, just takes a minute or two to figure out the best way.

Sonic reg

06:28 PMOh yea, one thing I probably should've mentioned. Alfador is a wizard, not a cleric... The reason I'm speaking about clerics is because I know a lot about them as well.

Sonic reg

09:39 PMName: Zentalin Xe'terij Race: Dwarven Profession: Cleric (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 127 Expr: 4207454 Level: 94
Currently Stat Bonus
Constitution (CO): 94 .... 37
Dexterity (DE): 99 .... 24
Discipline (DI): 100 .... 35
Logic (LO): 96 .... 28
Intelligence (IN): 88 .... 19
Strength (ST): 96 .... 33
Reflexes (RE): 99 .... 19
Charisma (CH): 100 .... 15
Wisdom (WI): 100 .... 25
Aura (AU): 99 .... 14
Mana: 282 Silver: 5359053590595934543535
GODLY SILVER PLZ
GOD CLERIC THX
-DR00B reg
09:47 PMskill?

Sonic reg

12:56 AMI was reading the posts in the one that got closed and this one opened instead. Was funny reading. Zentalin was being held up as the god of clerics, but that guide on some site shows he doesn't know a bunch of stuff about clerics. Can't be god if you don't even know how stuff works. I'll listen to a cleric with not so hot stats but knows what the hell they are talking about before I listen to someone who thinks they look perfect but got no clues.

I saw a bunch of people talking about armor too and questioning the guy who said 110 ranks in armor. They said go to 160 for plate. Guess you guys don't know how many ranks ya need to cast in plate huh? The guy who said 110 armor ranks was the one thinking straight.

Snook - notta cleric, but knows some stuff reg

10:56 AM110 ranks gets you 0 additional hauberk roundtime. I for one don't think clerics should be trained for full plate. Some decently crit padded hauberk is MORE than enough. For someone who apparently is held as knowing something about creating 'good' character, 110 ranks in armor is the way to go with a cap of 160. If the cap was 300 or not there I'd say eventually hit 160, but for now? No way.

Sonic reg

06:02 PM my flawed training
Armor Use : 167 [67]
Shield Use : 195 [95]
Combat Maneuvers : 195 [95]
Blunt Weapons : 195 [95]
Climbing : 149 [49]
Swimming : 150 [50]
Multi-Opponent Combat : 78 [17]
Perception : 175 [75]
Scroll Reading : 150 [50]
Magic Item Use : 150 [50]
Mana Sharing : 195 [95]
Spell Aiming : 195 [95]
Physical Training : 96 [22]
First Aid : 134 [37]
Picking Pockets : 134 [37]
Physical Training Points : 40
Mental Training Points : 7
Your spell lists:
Major Spirit......62
Minor Spirit......51
Cleric Circle.....94
Use SPELL ALL to view detailed list of spells.

as for my future plans: 50 ranks in pickpocket, first aid, climbing. 40 ranks in multi-opps. Keeping on 1x percep. 110 armor ranks, although I *might* continue 1x. Might pick up 1x MIU/scroll, although i'm not sure. I'm personally pretty clueless as to what to do about that. Any advice? :P

if I could start over I'd do what I have done, but also be 1x MIU, scroll,1x armor, 2x share. I'd 2x share because clerics can 3x and someone said stuff about share being involved in our spells. In an invasion of the graveyard, I casted 319 and watched it dispatch several undead in the area with low rolls. The crits were extremely high and I guess my aim/share training paid off? Not sure.


my skills arent even that good but i come from the perspective that your training doesn't have to look fluid, you don't have to have 80 ranks in this and 161 ranks in that at 160 to be a perfect character. Maybe that's just wasted TPs? When, at 160, will you ever use 80 climbing or swimming ranks? I am fully trained in certain things because I felt they might be involved in changes that might be approaching, or felt that they might directly effect my hunting. Isn't that what the whole game is about anyway? I trained Zentalin off of zero advice and zero knowledge. Remember Zeyrin? I told the owner of Zeyrin how to roll him and then decided to make my own cleric after thinking it might be an effective character.

There are many cleric spells that they're planning to revamp and I feel things such as 1x spell aim and 1x share may be important in the future. If they're not? oh well- but missing out on some armor ranks/percep ranks/magic item/scroll does not effect my hunting in the slightest, and I don't think it will.

As for being fully singled armor- You surely won't be casting in plate at 160. The hinderance will be horrid. 110 ranks fully trains you for spell hinderance with cleric.

However you want to train, you should *optimize your ability to hunt effectively, and train to make your chance of dying the slightest.* Also, train in what you want if it's really going to be your character. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks really- as long as I know I'm hunting/defending to my max potential, I don't care about anything else. Take my pickpocketing for example- it's obviously a waste of TPs- but guess what? It's funny as hell jacking gems off of people and I like doing it.
Sue me.
-Zentalin reg

06:19 PMYour training?

I thought you bought this guy? I even was offered him in the game once.

::shakes head in disbelief::

Hiway reg

07:35 PMYou are mistaken Hiway because I know for a fact that there has been only one owner of Zentalin. Of this, I am 100% positive.

Sonic

[This message has been edited by Alfador (edited 10-24-2001).] reg

07:39 PMPeople have asked me to sell Zent but I've never tried/wanted to. I can tell you where I hunted and how from 0 if you want..I grew up using a 0 RT morning star mostly, and hunted solo without MAing..except for getting help at low levels and in illoke where it was nearly impossible for me to solo and get fried effectively..other than that I've hunted with Jaeden from golems until plane 1 Rift, both of us learning and leveling.
-Zentalin reg
08:00 PMMy mistake then, but I distinctly remember you saying you were going to sell him soon which was around a year ago. The conversation happened on the boulder. And no, we were not dueling.

Hiway reg

09:38 PMHeh.

Zentalin was definitely never sold. I know that much.

Zent...you're training is very very impressive. I feel bad for previous statements that I made regarding that.

However, I do feel that your RP'ing ideas are quite flawed. I've seen you in rooms talkin' with this "I am God. You are horrible, thx, lol, etc." All in outloud speaking. It's just horrible.

Besides...we've already got Zanagan the Godly...we don't need anymore

reg

01:14 PMSee, I wasn't lying when I said he was the best all around rift+ cleric.

Sonic reg

02:28 PMHmm... this seems like the best place to ask this question and get opinions on it: Would a 1x multi-ops cleric be viable at rift age? I have used my spreadsheet program to build him up to 50, and I think it would be a possibility. I could post his training/stats at 50 if anyone wanted to see them. reg
04:24 PMtechnically all that stuff should SOUND the same coming out of his mouth so it should really matter cept lol, jes cause someone roleplays differently...gaze i base my roleplaying on zent too..smirk reg
09:30 PMI don't RP like that all the time, usually when I'm hunting and very lazy. I've recieved RPAs before, such as at Dante's dice game where I was forced to do something funny I forget what I did.. Zentalin is a very moody person and quite childish at times.

On the subject of 1x multi-opps, I don't think it would be very viable simply because after 40 ranks, the benefit from multi opps diminishes. With a mace, for example, focused Mstrike with 40 ranks would cost 5 RT for 2 swings. At 60 ranks, 8 RT for 3 swings. Do the math. 6 swings for 15 RT, or 6 swings for 16 RT? It goes on. 80 ranks- 12 RT for 4 swings. Do the math- 24 RT for 8 swings with 80 ranks, or 20 RT for (2*4), 8 swings, with 40 ranks? It's an obvious decision. And at 40 ranks, you can hit a total of 9 open targets with a total RT of 36 RT.

Best of luck with your training.
-Zentalin reg

09:11 PMMy cleric will single in armor for life, until his RT penalty for full plate is gone. Whether you think full plate is good or not.. I do. Hauberk just doesnt protect as well as plate. And with plate you wont need the crit padding you mentioned for the hauberk. Id rather have 0x plate than heavy crit padded hauberk. You take hits so much better..

Much cheaper and more viable to repair low enchant/none padded full plate, than crit padded hauberk. Its also more common, much easier to get.

At 120, i'll swing something like 440 in full plate and 4x weapon.

reg

12:13 AMkI don't know what the relevance of you saying your 440 AS at 120, but it sounds a tiny bit off.
My AS calculation for 120:
Training modi's:
+221 (121 ranks of blunt) total 221
+61 (121 ranks of CM) total 282
Stat modi:
+35 (maxed Dwarf strength bonus)317
Spell modi's:
+15 Bravery (211) 332
+25 Heroism (215) 357
+15 Benediction (307) 372
Society Modi's:
COL signs (+5 striking, +10 smiting, +20 swords)= 35. 407
4x Weapon modi: +20 427
427 base AS assuming no Zealot. A mastered Voln user's AS would be 418. Why no (317) Zealot? You can't hunt anywhere at 120 with it on.

AS calculations at 120 for fun:
+30 Zealot (317) 457
+75 Guidance (117) 532
+50 Sign of Madness (COL sign) 582
+30 (from 4x weapon to 10x) 612
612 MAX self cast AS at 120 assuming dwarf. Giants would add +5 making it 617.

More fun calculations assuming non-self cast spells. madness non
Wizard: +15 (509 strength) 632 582
Bard: +20 (1019 Eonake's) 652 602
Ranger: +10 (208 a 606) 662 612
Warrior:+15 (Warcry shout) 677 627
677 Max AS non-self cast AS at 120.
+25 (425 imbed) 702 652
702 Max possible AS (correct me if i'm wrong) at 120.
(Remember if a bear charges you and you inspire everyone it acts as 509, I've had it happen with 509 on and I didn't get a bonus)
Enjoy the table, although it's irrelevant to the string.. .sorry.
-Zentalin

[This message has been edited by Zentalin (edited 10-28-2001).] reg

11:07 AMWell, warriors can warcry holler for +20, but it's not really worth it. reg
07:21 PMI was approximating, not trying to be exact Mr. Knowitall.

If you want to be exact, it would be 446(one rank of CM will not give the extra 1 AS.), and yes I was counting Zealot.

I never said anything about hunting with it, I said swinging. reg

09:12 PMAt least you got the Mister right.

Hiway reg

06:45 PM?? I was just throwing up some information I had stored, i thought it would be fun to look at.. n i asked someone about the CM thing I wasn't all that sure if the extra rank added that or not
-Zent reg
07:10 PM121 ranks of CM = 61 AS. If you don't agree, you are wrong.

Sonic reg

08:44 PMYou dont have to be mr knowitall to know some people on this board are yag
alfador + jaed + zent = gods plz
-dr00b reg
08:55 PMHeh, I disagreed, and I was wrong. I just found one of my guys with 15 ranks in CM, and he got 8 bonus from it. Go figure. reg
07:41 PMHeh, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who makes mistakes.

Sonic reg