The Players Corner Archive

Name: XXXXXXXX Race: Giantman Profession: Cleric (shown as: Cleric)
Gender: Male Age: 36 Expr: 90535 Level: 7
Currently Stat Bonus
Constitution (CO): 50 .... 10
Dexterity (DE): 53 .... -4
Discipline (DI): 100 .... 25
Logic (LO): 70 .... 10
Intelligence (IN): 50 .... -5
Strength (ST): 62 .... 21
Reflexes (RE): 89 .... 14
Charisma (CH): 47 .... 4
Wisdom (WI): 97 .... 23
Aura (AU): 91 .... 15
Mana: 20 Silver: 0
(When will he get that missing mana point, if at all?)

XXXXXXXXX (at level 7), your skill bonuses and ranks are:
Skill Bonus Rank
-------------------------------------------------------------
Armor Use : 40 [8]
Shield Use : 40 [8]
Combat Maneuvers : 40 [8]
Edged Weapons : 40 [8]
Climbing : 20 [4]
Swimming : 15 [3]
Perception : 20 [4]
Scroll Reading : 15 [3]
Mana Sharing : 74 [16]
Physical Training : 40 [8]
First Aid : 40 [8]
Physical Training Points : 10

I keep try to keep it consistant, probably start magic item use in a few trains. Climbing and perception one train, and swimming and scroll reading the next. Should I do perception every level? What should/shouldn't I change? Any and all info is greatly appreciated. And yes, be brutally honest, I want this character to be a great one when he gets older. More of a swinger than a spell caster, but equally efficiant in both.

Johnny reg

I would highly recommend training in MIU/Sharing/Scroll Reading/CM/Armor/Edged/Shield/Perception/First Aid/and Physical Training just as you have so far.

If you'd like to see my flawed training...

>skill
Omnirus (at level 138), your skill bonuses and ranks are:
Skill Bonus Rank
-------------------------------------------------------------
Armor Use : 120 [30]
Shield Use : 239 [139]
Combat Maneuvers : 239 [139]
Edged Weapons : 239 [139]
Climbing : 140 [40]
Swimming : 130 [35]
Multi-Opponent Combat : 5 [1]
Disarm Traps : 179 [79]
Pick Locks : 194 [94]
Stalking & Hiding : 146 [46]
Perception : 166 [66]
Scroll Reading : 158 [58]
Magic Item Use : 122 [31]
Mana Sharing : 174 [74]
Spell Aiming : 96 [22]
Ambush : 126 [33]
Physical Training : 124 [32]
First Aid : 226 [126]
Trading : 30 [6]
Picking Pockets : 5 [1]
Brawling : 147 [47]
Physical Training Points : 19
Mental Training Points : 1

If I were to make one addition to your training it would be brawling. It can come in handy for several different things.

Just my opinion. reg

Johnny reg

Brawling is basically another type of attack that you can do as a profession in Gemstone. (Tiger-Claws are brawling weapons)

If you have brawling and you're doing open hand casting with only a shield in your hand...then brawling will aid you in your defenses.

It's pretty small training device. However I feel that it's very important.

I forgot to mention MO (Multi-Opponent Combat) in my aforementioned post. I've only got 1 training in it. Zentalin can tell you more about that...he has a lot of training in it.

However...with my trip to Old Ta'Faendryl today...all physical training (edged/ambush/stalking and hiding/and multi-opponent combat) mean nothing.

reg

quote:

---

It seems that the ability of some monsters to disarm you or kill you is dependent upon your mana sharing ability and your magic item use ability.

---

Please elaborate on this.

Sonic reg

Sonic reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alfador:
Please elaborate on this.

Sonic

---

What he said. Do those skills help you stop them from turning your disk into the frisbee of death or something?

reg

I'm going to try and figure most of it out to you.

At this point...I haven't gotten my 138th level head past half-way on the experience meter. I'm too scared to go into offensive. I'll die automatically, I guarantee it.

My AS currently is not high enough to kill anything in there with a weapon. I've tried to 110 several things...and well...only 3 things accepted the cast. The highest TD I've seen out of invasions are on these initiates. They've completely warded my 643 300's CS.

You also can't have certain spells that aren't from your circle cast on you. Neimanz put 401 on me last night and it didn't effect the way I hunted. I put 120 on him...and he died within 4 minutes.

Strange that Keffal is nearly my age...stayed in the same stance...and was killed.

Basically the monsters there are like getting into a PvP altercation.

Neimanz was the one that said that sharing and MIU have to do with the disarming factor. I've yet to study more into it...but I will.

reg

Sonic reg

So if Joe Optimized Rogue walks in with 4 ranks of scrolls so he can cast traplore from a scroll and zilch for the rest, he's going to get toasted when his hasting wizard casts at him. He can wear 1 non-castable spell.

Selfcast is here!
reg

2. 40 ranks. This allows you a 2x focused swing. (2 swings on a creature with 5 RT). Again, this is expensive, but MO may play a bigger part in things in the future, so I figure I might as well get it. There are clerics already utilizing the 40 ranks in MO, such as Gumpas. He used it extremely effectively in Lava Golems, where you cannot ambush them, and are forced to swing. He basically killed them in half the time. I have 17 ranks in MO now, and I'll get my 2x strike at 117, with 40 ranks. (I'm 94 now.)
-Zentalin reg

I placed something like:
DE, CH, RE, AU, IN, CO, ST, LO, WI, DI.
It was pretty easy to hunt ..WI and DI went up every level until 32 when they made 70 and then went up every other level till they maxed. That's like +3 PtP and +6 MtP from 2 stats in 30 levels pretty good.. not to mention the other stats.
I say optimization is the way to go because it gives you a lot of TPs growing up due to growth.
-Zentalin
reg

Nothing against you Zent. I've told you your training was flawless before.

However...

All physical skills I've put into question now with this new hunting ground. Especially MO. reg

Hey Zentalin, do you remember what your original starting rolls were?

While I do agree that optimization is best, don't go with FULL optimization. What should come first is ease for your character while at the same time going for optimization. I just don't see how, other than having spell-ups from other people, you had any ease of hunting with wisdom being your second lowest number.

I'm also curious what your starting rolls were just so I can compare the training points you received to the ones I received. Since you had discipline at dead last, that had to take away some training points.

My starting rolls went: ST, AU, DE, DI, WI, RE, IN, CH, LO, CO.

I put strength at highest because it wouldn't max till 18 and strength is important for roundtime with archery (every 10 bonus takes away one second). Then I put aura next for more training points and spirit so I can raise people and use more powers and also be able to hunt with madness. Dexterity was next because it grows slow but it is also what determines your attack strength for ranged and spell aiming -- not to mention it lets you dodge more maneuver attacks. And then the rest was placed for somewhat optimization except for charisma which I don't mind.

Doing that, I have absolutely no trouble with hunting, raising, or anything else in the game. Only real trouble was spelling up "sometimes" because of low wisdom, but your wisdom is even lower so I don't know how you could bare with that. At 94, my stats won't be too far off from yours when going for ease first, optimization second as opposed to you going strictly for optimization.

Constitution (CO): 88 .... 29
Dexterity (DE): 100 .... 40
Discipline (DI): 100 .... 20
Logic (LO): 92 .... 26
Intelligence (IN): 87 .... 28
Strength (ST): 100 .... 5
Reflexes (RE): 87 .... 28
Charisma (CH): 80 .... 0
Wisdom (WI): 100 .... 25
Aura (AU): 100 .... 20

I'll be getting 57.5 physical points and 55.9 mental points there at 94.

Nope, I don't have 59/59 or even 60/60 training points, but what the heck am I going to do with those extra training points that I don't already? The only thing I could do is maybe triple train in spells, but with those little training points, I could probably get 1 extra spell than normal every 10 levels -- big whoop.

- Pudgee

[This message has been edited by Pudgee (edited 11-21-2001).] reg

Your spell lists:
Major Spirit......64
Minor Spirit......51
Cleric Circle.....95
Use SPELL ALL to view detailed list of spells.

@ 95. reg

Why don't the TPs in the begining matter? TPs are TPs. If anything, TPs in the begining are more important than later so you can actually -use- them.

I'd rather be able to skin, steal, or use any other skill from my early years for life rather than at 100 where only a few more years are left.

Also if not for getting more TPs early on rather than later, I wouldn't have been able to be fully singled trained in all the things I am...without having to skip any spells. Yes, later on you can train in all the secondary skills, but I'll be able to do so as well. The same for triple training too.

I just don't see the reason to put yourself through all the limitations early on for "full" optimization when you can still be nearly full optimization yet have total ease of hunting from the very begining.

>>Major Spirit......64
Minor Spirit......51
Cleric Circle.....95

So at 95, that's 18 triple trains. How often do you triple train? Is it every few levels due to training in many things with your abundant training points? Well due to having more TPs in the begining, I'll have already completed all those skills and I'll be able to triple train all the time as well.

Basically what it all comes down to is that whether you're trained for full optimization or ease of hunting them optimization, you will still have tons of training points. The only difference is that one has no troubles at all whereas in the begining, the other has lots...mainly very little mana.

- Pudgee reg

I'd disregard triple training in spells.

Why? If you really want the full argument...lemme know...it's very quasi-essay...and it'll take me a bit to write...but if you want me to write it...I will :P

Omnirus is 138...nearing 139 at the time of this post. Currently I've tripled 4 times. How do I fare against my counterparts? Well...I've never missed a training in OHE, Shield Use, or Combat Manuevers. I haven't died one time in Ta'Faendryl since I've been there (Absent the one time I was dragging someone and had an open hand). Everytime that Truekillr goes out to hunt it seems that he's coming back home dead. I find it pretty remarkable.

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Omnirus:
Pudgee.

I'd disregard triple training in spells.

Why? If you really want the full argument...lemme know...it's very quasi-essay...and it'll take me a bit to write...but if you want me to write it...I will :P

Omnirus is 138...nearing 139 at the time of this post. Currently I've tripled 4 times. How do I fare against my counterparts? Well...I've never missed a training in OHE, Shield Use, or Combat Manuevers. I haven't died one time in Ta'Faendryl since I've been there (Absent the one time I was dragging someone and had an open hand). Everytime that Truekillr goes out to hunt it seems that he's coming back home dead. I find it pretty remarkable.

---

You said yourself that you don't swing... TK does... and that would most likely be why he's dying, and you're not.

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by RIFT-N-RANGER:
You said yourself that you don't swing... TK does... and that would most likely be why he's dying, and you're not.

---

Yes Chuckaar...that was what I was saying.

And TK is a tripled cleric. He's also trying to swing. As he and I both know...neither one of us is able to hunt Ta'Faendryl well.

You know that.

125 just doesn't do enough damage. Ya it'll occassionally kill initiates in 1-3 shots...but it takes at least 15-25 hits on a griffin to take it down.

(My previous post was not meant to be an attack on TK...as you know...him and I have been friends for quite sometime) reg

And just what exactly to you train in with your abundant left-over training points at your old age?

If you're fully singled in armor, shield, CM, weapon, mana share, spell aim with at least 40 ranks of climb/swim/percep/MIU/SR, what exactly else is there to train in? All those left-over points would go to triple training.

My old character used to train in everything like Zentalin. He had 40 ranks in hiding, stealing, trading and all sorts of things for a wizard. It was fun for when boredom hit, but it wasn't something that was neccessary to survive as a character. If I didn't train in those skills, the only thing I would have left-over is to triple train.

- Pudgee reg

Picking/Disarming.

That's where a lot of my training points when to.

The rest of my points went to pickpocketing and stalking/hiding and ambushing.

The rest went to perception.

So after that you can do the math and figure out that I've spent a lot of TP's on worthless crap.

A lot of training also went to brawling.

Omni

reg

But you said not to triple train in spells.

Again, I ask: With all the abundant training points that clerics have later on in life, what exactly are you going to put those training points towards when we can still train in everything we need?

You would rather us put those training points towards "worthless crap" as you say rather than putting them towards tripling in spells?

Just curious,

- Pudgee
reg

Train in other skills.

MO (Some take this path...although now seeing Ta'Faendryl, I dunno about training in it anymore as a cleric...we sure as hell don't swing in the rift)

I'd 2x in mana sharing every level...which I'm doing now...I'd keep my physical training up...I'd 1x CM, OHE, and Armor Use, as well as brawling every single level. As for the rest...hell put it in spells. I know that so many of my training points go into everything that I train in. Brawling is key in my opinion for full defense wherever you go. It seems that when I'm in the rift with around 50 ranks of brawling that my off-hand defense is greatly increased by the brawling addition to my arsinal. I think that too many people assume that if you have extra TP's...just throw it into spells. Let's say this. I can blind/bind about 90% of the griffins and initiates that come into Old Ta'Faendryl. While I can't swing a worth a damn (mind you...I haven't missed a single rank in shield, edged, or CM)...I still sit back and just prep 125 and cast at everything I can. I barely learn anything in there. One time I got to mid-way after I killed like 4 consecutive griffins but that's it.

It's just a strange thing to discuss in my opinion.

Sorry if I sound contradictory on this point Pudgee...seems that I am. At the same time that I'm saying to over train in physical skills...you also can't go into the rift being a physical cleric. People are going to tell you it's possible...but they haven't hunted 4 or 5 yet, so they don't know what to expect on either of those planes. It just _does_ not happen. The last physical cleric I saw was Jamousii binding aivrens then ambushing their heads. This was, of course, before the first GP...before the TD drop in monsters...and before fear became a major player in determining when people came to the rift.

While my post doesn't seem to make sense...I'm trying to seem as clear as possible. My mind is unsure as to which path to go: physical...or magical. reg

1. Magic skills are being used more often. The implementation of a spell usage criteria in old Ta'Faendryl uses (mana share+miu+scroll)/3 =(all spells on you, the spell counting toward the total as the LEVEL of that spell, not 1 per spell.)

2. I'd advise picking up singling (or even doubling if you aren't caught up) in magic item use and scroll use. Also, picking up 2x share would be a good idea, even if you're currently singling. I think share will be more important in the future.

3. Get more multi opponent combat ranks. My cleric guide advises 40 ranks of multi opponent combat. The reason? You'll rely on swinging through the undead gap, and it is also a viable hunting method in every level of a cleric's life. 40 ranks of multi-opponent combat DOUBLES the swings you can make in 5 seconds.

Bad news- in the next phases of growing pains, they are changing ambushing to be far less accurate, requiring people who want consistant ambushing to be at least singled. Currently Zentalin, with no ambush ranks and fully 1xed CM, can ambush easily, making probably 9/10 ambushes. This is swinging from the open, and not hiding. Ambushing is going to be tweaked, and make clerical ambushing obsolete, even for someone as much as .5x trained in ambush. The point- 40 ranks of multi opponent combat will be a great asset to your swinging career.

On the concept of 2handed clerics- it is a completely viable training path, but don't forget to be singled in magic skills. This is do-able. Also, I'd strongly recommend a 2handed cleric also be fully 1xed in shield and either blunt or edged, because you can revert to them when you want to repel, or have a much higher DS.

Pole-arm clerics: A viable training path- with pole arms, you can wield 1handed, AND 2handed pole-arms. A lance is a very strong weapon, comparable with a greataxe. This makes you able to train in 1 weapon type and get the benefits of 2 weapon types. Drawback: Many creatures you might hunt. (pyrothags, lava golems,) Are immune to puncture, which is a damage type that pole-arms often do.

What I would do personally on the note of skills to train in: Brush up on those magic skills, make sure I have my 110 ranks of armor and 40 ranks of MO, and then maybe cap out climb and swim at 50 ranks, and then triple a few spells. A few CS points never hurt, and tripling spells is a viable way to increase it. Tripling is 0/40 TPs, and if you save just 4 mental TPs every 10 levels, you can triple and have 10 extra spell ranks at 99, which would probably tack on an extra level or two worth of CS.

First aid and trading are also viable skills to train in.

On spell aim- I say be 1xed or bust, its kind of pointless to have like .5x, but I don't know if it will come into play with future skills.

I don't disagree with Omnirus training in locks/disarm, but I think that raising would bring more experience, with comparison, and I wouldn't personally train in it.

I hope this is enough info to help you all burn those TPs!

------------------
-Zentalin-

[This message has been edited by Zentalin (edited 11-23-2001).] reg

Well those will be my skills at 100.

I'm still debating whether or not I want to take armor use up so high because the good thing about halflings is that they're quick in their feet and that's the thing they got going for them. I don't want to trudge around in plate where it'll make me slow as heck and not to mention that if I do ever get hit or stunned, it'll most likely be death for me anyways.

One thing I'm curious though is exactly how much of a decrease in defense (over the normal -50) does everyone see with Bind? This is going to make me debate how I want to do my spell training.

My clerical ranks will match my level but as for the other two spell circles, if Bind doesn't lower defense -that- much, then I'm tempted to go up the minor list for Unbalance. Not to mention the mana cost between the two. And also, hopefully some day Web will be better than it currently is, lol.

- Pudgee reg

On the other hand.. Having 40-50 ranks in picking and disarming, you could learn at the same rate your whole life. reg

quote:

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Originally posted by AestheticDeath:
You get good exp for raising someone your age or older. But I have heard the amount decreases as you get older, and more and more of the people you raise are half your train.. For someone over over 120, getting exp from raising would be a very slow process.

On the other hand.. Having 40-50 ranks in picking and disarming, you could learn at the same rate your whole life.

---

He's right.

When I raise someone and get no experience from it...a feeling of nobility runs through my blood (that's the actual message that comes through on the bottom of the screen after I True Resurrect (350).

This well of life crap is just horrid in my opinion. I can't believe that they actually are making us 308 someone before we raise them.

The only _good_ experience I get is when I raise someone above the age of level 100. Whenever I do that...the chance of me ending up numbed is about a 60% chance. I _do_ get experience at least around a becoming numbed state everytime I raise someone that is in the rift.

Whenever I raise someone in Ta'Faendryl...(i don't know who the youngest hunting in Ta'Faendryl is)...I usually get to numbed.

With the new 308 in...I don't remember anytime since it's been implemented that I was able to get to pure saturation. I _do_ remember back in the AOL Beta days that I could get to saturation within 3-5 raises dependent of course on the age of the person.

I remember that I could get levels just from raising back in the day too...

Ah...that was wonderful.

Omnirus reg

And be normal and boring like everyone else? Nah, I'll pass.

I use a bow for when I wanna tear through critters real fast with a 3 second roundtime without having to wait for them to attack me first. Or if a critter is turtled, I pull out the hefty 2 second crossbow that adds an additional +50 AS.

Besides, in my previous form, it was fun hunting fire mages at 26 with a 451 self-cast attack strength...ignoring critter weapon parry. :) And what else would I put my training points towards? They're plentiful!

That answer your question?

- Pudgee

[This message has been edited by Pudgee (edited 11-27-2001).] reg

Only died once, and it was from a fire elemental's fire-wave, not from a fire mage. :\

- Pudgee reg

Sonic reg

Oh yeah, and glass amulets are a young halfling's friend. That's how I died that one time, from a fire elemental catching me with a fire-wave while invisible.

Fire mages aren't rare in the Inner Circle either. Maybe they are now, but not a couple months ago.

And yes, it was hard to hunt them with having to run from nearly everything, heh. What I mainly did was carry two pre-cocked crossbows, cast guidance, find a mage, fire away, and if it didn't die in the first shot, then pull out my other one and cast guidance again.

I'd have to say I killed at least 30 of them, but then decided to do mud wasps since they were easier and I didn't have to run as much.

- Pudgee

[This message has been edited by Pudgee (edited 12-01-2001).] reg

But that's irrellevant as hardly anyone, save warriors, hunt there self-cast. ;)

- Pudgee reg

The joys of being able to hunt in guarded stance. But even then, good luck trying to defend against a 550-600+ fire bolt from a mage.

Now take a profession that can't hunt in guarded, against a 550-600+ fire bolt, and they'll be spelled up like crazy.

Oh yeah, I also used to always have sorcerers asking me to cast strength and shields on them, and sometimes another defensive spell that they don't have. Self-cast? Nah.

- Pudgee reg

Sonic reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Alfador:
Well that's one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. No one hunts there selfcast.

Sonic

---

I hunted my bought sorcerer in there selfcast, and she wasn't even a good character. For profs like wiz/bard its nice to have some increased TD cause mages do cast sleep with authority, but again not necessity.

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa

reg

Jes a phase i hope zanagan reg