The Players Corner Archive

Rusval Reguba
~Eater of Halfling haters

[This message has been edited by Rusval (edited 03-07-2001).] reg

Some of the best RPers I've met are young, some are old.

The same can be said for some of the worst RPers I've met.

Heh. I'm babbling, huh?

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~Nindy
"Don't take this the wrong way." reg

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Man of many opinions reg

Manodith

PS I am 18

[This message has been edited by Manodith (edited 03-15-2001).] reg

Mike

Zan

etc reg

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Caels Onae'Rae
==============
"Light the path through darkness with the light of friendship." reg

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Ariah, the wandering minstrel reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Ariah:
otherwise why would they be playing a RPG which is dominated by younger folk?

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mid-life crisis?

'kidlood
reg

--Arlia's player, who's 21 irl and has played GS since age 19 reg

Attitudes like mine are what gets you flamed in most places

But I look around and see two totally different worlds of children in GemStone. It's the same two worlds of children I see in real life. (I'm 40, and if I wanna call anyone younger than 25 a child it's my right dangit!)

I see the bright eager children with wonderful imaginations who can add so much life to a game like GemStone. Some are as young as 12, some 25 - and hundreds inbetween. They're the ones who play their characters so magnificently, who convince me by their behavior that their characters are exactly as they are portrayed.

I then see the angry neglected children, whose parents think that shoving them in front of a computer is a good substitute for a real conversation. Those are the ones *I* refer to whenever I make a remark about someone behaving like a child. I sympathize with children who are brought up believing that the world is a lonely place, but I simply don't have the patience to deal with them.

If their own parents couldn't manage to teach them how to behave, I'll be damned if they dump that responsibility on my shoulders.

The other kids - the first group I mentioned - they're the ones I want to hang out with. They're the ones I want to learn from and experience the fantasy of RPGs with.

And just like in real life - these are the kids who give me hope for the future of the world. The others? Well I hope to god they straighten out. Because they just might end up being President some day. That's a scary thought.

Roberta

[This message has been edited by Desharei (edited 08-09-2001).] reg

Bezerker, player of some peeps heh.
started gs? 13. Age now? 19. End gs? 9 billion. (Comon, if humans can live to be 280 i can live to be 9 million.. really)
reg

While I know it is only natural to take offense when you hear someone insult a section of the population that would include you, please remember, age/race in GS will not be a factor unless you let it become one (no one knows your personal information unless you tell them).
reg

When I hear on the news that Americans are overweight, I take a look out the window and say, "Yeah, Americans are overweight. We ought to watch less TV and get more exercise." I am in rather good physical condition, and have never felt that Mr. TV Man is calling me fat. reg

...school sucks homework sucks my parents suck you suck art sucks music with melodies suck rules suck you can't make me I don't wanna church sucks the principal sucks blah blah lots of words and no content.

And furthermore, I'll produce lots of "points" that really have no bearing, and if you disagree or prove me foolish, I'll get hostile and call you names. I'll try creative writing for the first time in my life (I sure didn't do it in SCHOOL) and attempt to insult your intellect. I'll end up looking foolish because I don't know "their" from "they're" and nobody really NEEDS grammar. Everyone in the world might know that I'm wrong, but sure cannot make me know that I'm wrong, because I'm a characteristic teenager.

Oh, and if you're offended by that, just take the shoe off, chuckle nervously, and pretend it didn't fit.

[This message has been edited by Buckwheet (edited 08-10-2001).] reg

Lets not even broach the subject of racial slandering anymore.

Lets get back to the topic at hand.

You know who you are that got edited or removed.

Buckwheet reg

quote:

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Oh, and if you're offended by that, just take the shoe off, chuckle nervously, and pretend it didn't fit.

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One would hope the old folk would learn about wearing other peoples shoes by now...

'lood
"ow mommy, my foots too big, it hurts..."

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by kelood:

One would hope the old folk would learn about wearing other peoples shoes by now...

'lood
"ow mommy, my foots too big, it hurts..."

---

Hey I resemble that remark!

-She who never wears other people's shoes.
reg

I don't have a problem with age - how much a person's got or how little a persons got. What I DO have a huge problem with is the lack of self control and consideration for others in a 'public' setting - such as this game and all the messages boards.

A childish twit comes in all ages. There's just something about the anonymity given with this medium that brings out the twit in quite a few people. reg

We are not going to start the immaturity battle that the other boards had.

This is the way this thread is feeling like.

edge reg

quote:

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school sucks homework sucks my parents suck you suck art sucks music with melodies suck rules suck you can't make me I don't wanna church sucks the principal sucks blah blah lots of words and no content

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school sucks:
I'll leave the international matter to another time. As far as statewide, My former highschool ranks below average at the county, state, and national level in
SAT scores (composite of less then 1000).
The older neap scores for 4th and 8th graders stayed close to or below average, but last years Stanford testing rated about 60 percentile, so I guess we aren't too bad.

Though i'd say schools as a whole are too worried about standardized test scores (especially grades K-8). They base their cirriculum for the most part on these scores and its for the worse i think.

homework sucks:
The united states has seen a grade inflation epidemic in its highschools. I believe alot of this has to do with the increase in weight towards grade of homework completion, and other "dumb" activities like folder upkeep, "problems of the day", or classroom notes. In most classes, you can fail or barely pass every test, yet pass the class if you recieve full credit on every "dumb" activity. By contrast you can ace every test, yet do no busy work and get a C or lower in the class.

music with melodies suck:
I assume you mean pre- twentieth century works? I personally don't like the barouque era, the harpsicord (which sadly is found in almost every basso continuo) grates on my nerves. I do like , however, classical era works as well as romantic era pieces (like Schuberts Erlkonig), and i believe the march to scaffold has a very powerfull sound, only surpassed by Metallica's Minus Human .

church sucks:
Though i don't want to get into a religion debate here. I will say this. Their is a big diference between religion and faith. One can be totally against organized religion yet have faith in god. Just as going to church does not insure salvation, neither does staying at home on sunday insure damnation. Which has alot to do with...

you can't make me I don't wanna:
Many parents try to force their beliefs unto their children. Case in point, religion. Children should be able to make up their own mind, and they can and will exorcise that right.

art sucks:
Art in todays society is for rich people to show off their wealth. Now this is not always the case, id be ignorant to assume so, but it is in a great many cases. Art is also very much a matter of personal taste. Some people don't like walking through gallery staring at pictures for 3 hours. Just like some people would find perusing the software section at babbages for 3 hours boring.

principal sucks:
actually, my principal was a rather nice fellow, I never had any problems with him.

you suck:
When you ignorantly associate aspects of a select few members of a group of people to the entire group of people, you do suck.

Maybe , just , maybe, if parents paused a bit in between "the dogs need to go out" "i told you a week ago to clean your room" as they are rushing out the door in the morning on their way to work, they might be able to get a better and more thourogh response then [insert topic] sucks.

Also, do you expect them to go into a brief speech on a certain subject everytime the need arises. When the parent holds up the hendl CD in the mall , would it be appropriate to go through a ten minute summary on why those period pieces get on your nerves, i should think a simple "i dont like that", or "that sucks" should do.

When ordering from Mcdonalds, when you say minus pickes and mayo, do you go into a speech on how pickles give you a rash under your arms or that your lactose intolerant and one day you had a burger with mayo and you were sick for three days?

These ignorant assuptions you make from your podium of grand aged wisdom is the reason I think, you sir, suck.

'lood reg

reg

quote:

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music with melodies suck:
I assume you mean pre- twentieth century works? I personally don't like the barouque era, the harpsicord (which sadly is found in almost every basso continuo) grates on my nerves. I do like , however, classical era works as well as romantic era pieces (like Schuberts Erlkonig), and i believe the march to scaffold has a very powerfull sound, only surpassed by Metallica's Minus Human .

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Rather, I refer to the unimaginative drone of aural gibberish that is mixed into a slurry of eye and ear candy on a daily basis and shoveled into the collective conciousness of American youth by MTV.

As a side note, the most fascinating thing about MTV is how teenage boys can point out every meaningless pop cliche that acts like Britney Spears and Christina Agwhatever employ, but are completely blind to precisely the same traits in acts like Limp Bizwhatever or Korn, even when these groups compete with Britney Spears on the same top 10 countdown. The teenage boys who are blissfully ignorant that they are fans of "Britney Spears for Angry Teenage Boys" will argue that they ought to be allowed to form their own, sensible, intelligent opinions about important issues like religion and education.

And few of them can be bothered to vote or get a job. Surely exceptions exist, but in general, the whole situation is ridiculous. I'll sooner believe that the typical seven year old boy should decide his own bedtime than that the typical 17 year old male should make decisions that affect the rest of his life.

But hey, I'm only speaking from experience and a few trips to lockup and once to jail. You don't have to agree today, but smart money says that you will someday.

Oh, and I prefer the Johnny Lee Hooker, Muddy Waters, Howlin Wolf, Velvet Underground, Van Morrison, Beatles, Stones, Clapton, Hendrix, and Dylan. reg

The technology available to the new generation has created their own standard of "childishness" (and remember NONE Of us are immune to our outbreaks of that, not even at age 40!)

When we were teens, "behaving like a child" wasn't much more than throwing a temper tantrum because we couldn't stay out late when "all our friends" were doing it.

Behaving like a child was getting caught stealing M&Ms in the drugstore and blaming it on the stupid shop owner for having the audacity to catch us.

Behaving like a child was refusing to get out of the TV room and to the dinner table.. "just til the commercial mom, honest!"

And behaving like a child was throwing all our stuff UNDER the bed, when it wouldn't have taken any more effort to just dump it all in the closet.

Nowadays, things like that are tolerated by most parents. They're just grateful their kids aren't on drugs, or drive-by shooting the neighborhoods.

I don't blame the teens. They have been allowed to get away with the minor things, things that used to get our butts kicked "when your father comes home." They are the product of their environment, but the environment has changed drastically.

They're more intelligent now, more savvy to things, yet not old enough to have experienced most of life yet. That makes them a new breed of humans. Some very special. But some still clutching to mommy's apron because it really IS a scary world out there now, and it's perfectly justifiable that some of them don't want to grow up.

Roberta - still VERY much a child.
reg

Lynard Skynard, Mollie Hatchet, Charlie Daniels, The Who, Pink Floyd, Yes, Jethro Tull, Led Zep, Moody Blues, the Original Sound Track to Hair, and - believe it or not - Best of Shirley Temple.

Ah the good ole days, when the music was the melody and the meaning combined.
reg

Some people are just too funny when they really aren't trying to be. When did musical preference decide aptitude in intelligent conversation? Its just common nature to insult the opposing viewpoint (or so it seems anymore), music is no diferent.

Besides, though he may insult the pop princesses, I have yet to see a 17 year old male not glued to the set when those videos are on . (And they surely won't tell you this, but i bet half of them know the words...)

'lood
I do...

reg

Sure there are differences in viewpoints and methods of expression between teenagers and adults. It's been this way from the dawn of time and is commonly referred to as the "generation gap". Honestly, I think 20somethings are going to have the same inability to relate to 50somethings. I know, as a 30something, that although I am certainly able to be friends with a 50-60something, I can't relate to a lot of the things they are going through. I think about retirement, old age, long-term health care, and extended health problems, but only in a very abstract "I'm not there yet" way. I'm sure for people in their 60's, those subjects are much more a pressing issue, but I can't relate to that pressure at this point in my life.

It's the same with teenagers. A 15 year old isn't going to necessarily think in terms of the value of education, the need for establishing good self-discipline skills, where they plan to go in a career, saving money for their first car/home, etc. It's not where they are coming from, for the most part. Many teenagers *do* think about those things, but probably can't relate to them in the same way people in my age group can.

So yes, we're all going to express ourselves differently. Teens might say "that sucks". I might say "I don't like that." My 82 year old mother might say "I don't remember if I like that or not but I'm not in the mood for it so let me take my nap in peace why don't you?!?"

But there is room for everyone in GemStone, regardless of age, if we all try to remember to respect each other. And as much as adults might think it's the teens that have no respect, we should probably try to remember that just because they may be more succinct in expressing their displeasure, they aren't necessarily showing disrespect. Call them on it when they are - blatant insults aren't acceptable no matter who you are or what your age. But show respect back too. Don't expect that you're going to get respect from someone who you are putting down as being "just a kid".

Done rambling.

GG reg

It certainly is an issue that pops up over and over and over.

I'd have to say that when I debate or make a point, I usually never do so to convince the person I'm debating against unless it's a one on one discussion. On a BBS my goal is usually to persuade the reader into understanding my position and arguements in hopes he can agree with it. Think of it like a trial, two laywers try and gather as much evidence as possible, not to convince one another of who's guilty or innocent, but instead to convince society of who's guilty or innocent. What the other "laywer" may think of me is of little to no concern. That should be a good enough reason to continue debate, because many will read your post, and many will agree (so long as its well founded, but even in some cases poorly founded arguements seem to get agreement as well).

The problem I have with maturity is that people who point to teenagers and try and make a generalization about them are infact wrong about their own generalization. They try and say that "Sure, there are exceptions, there are those teenagers who are good and mature blah blah blah, but they aren't the norm." Truth is however, they are the norm. The exception is the teenager they wish to label, catagorize, and iconize.

Most teenagers don't infact steal, nor do they do drugs. In Canada teenagers are doing more and more successful at school and participating in more academic programs. So what if the general teenager listens to Limp Bisket (sp?) or whatever rap groups are available? I would certainly appreciate hearing proof or some logical arguement that can support the idea that music is the cause of "bad behaviour".

Kind of like the chicken and the egg... does the bad behaviour come first and then the music follows? Or does the music come first and then the teenager becomes anti-social and "bad"?

Please don't point to statistics either because they can't tell you anything about teenage behaviour nor can they say much about minor crimes. Did you know that in the 1800's women were NEVER abused by their husbands? Well, according to the statistics they weren't, and don't we all love statistics.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

No imaturity battles aloud!

Don't make me use my Mod powers to eradicate this problem that seems to be brewing!

That is if I can remember how to edit something!

edge reg

You'll note I haven't once said "most" are like "this"... I've noted a distinct separation between two types of behaviors and labeled one behavior "mature" and the other "childish." I can't even compare the two with my personal observations of real life because I am not exposed to that many of today's youth. None of my own, and my neighborhood is mostly couples.

Roberta
reg

Actually, Desharei, on the official message boards you took upon yourself to share a rather condescending and insulting slurry of thoughts regarding my immaturity, ignorance, racial insensitivity, and various other falsely supposed faults. After my response to your post got me banned from the boards for 30 days, it was difficult to reach a point where I harbored no grudge, but I'm there. It never ceases to amaze how perceptions of anonymous internet identities can vary wildly. I'm glad to hear a far more accurate depiction of my character this time around.

The John Lennon quote was that "The Beatles are bigger than Jesus Christ." The comment was misinterpreted but the response was undeniably groundbreaking. Marilyn Manson makes anti-Christian comments every time you spin his disc, but it has never been the case that thousands of his *fans* gather together to burn, smash, and crush his music. Icons in the music business are not at all similar to what they once were. In the past the popular music community was populated largely by artists and bonified musicians. These days the majority of the music industry are musical acts that value flashing lights, smoke on stage, and silicone breasts as a vital part of their music. Artists can change the world, entertainers generally don't.

And yeah, the music thing is a little bit off topic. It is all related, though. The poster's comment about the Lennon quote exhibited the "Your opinion doesn't agree with mine so I won't listen" mentality I mentioned two or three posts back. Coincidence? Absolutely not, there is a relation there that maybe only a musician can identify, but nonetheless real. 30 years ago, the many young people were interested in politics, social reform, civil rights, and bought records of some of the most phenomenal musicians in history. Is that true today, or are we so obsessed with gratifying our me, self, and id that we've allowed big dollar corporations rule the country? Save America, buy a CD from the back of an unsigned band's van. You don't have to give all your dollars to name brands.

In my most humble, yet experienced musician's opinion, there's not a thing interesting about any group I've seen on MTV in years. That's not to say that these modern acts aren't popular or a valid style of pop music - but we are buying into music with hardly any blues influence, just like glam metal, disco, and early 80's synth rock. Backstreet Boys are different from New Kids on the Block? Britney Spears is fundamentally different from Tiffany? It's all catchy, popular, lucrative, loved & hated, but nevertheless dated.

If you think some of this was interesting, though maybe you disagree, give some clicks and read a little.

www.adbusters.org
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/18/1136244&mode=thread

reg

I haven't read those boards in hmm..must've been over 6 months now. So you understand, I'm sure, why I have absolutely no idea what you could possibly have said to set me off like that. Us old folks don't have very good memory afterall (read: life's too short not to get over things).

But like I've said before..send me an e-mail, and uncover this mystery that is Nahiar!
reg

quote:

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Originally posted by LordKranar:

The problem I have with maturity is that people who point to teenagers and try and make a generalization about them are infact wrong about their own generalization. They try and say that "Sure, there are exceptions, there are those teenagers who are good and mature blah blah blah, but they aren't the norm." Truth is however, they are the norm. The exception is the teenager they wish to label, catagorize, and iconize.

Archwizard

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This generalization's wrong too. Depends what the generalization is. If people want to say that all kids are rude ignorant thugs just because some of them are, it's off base. But saying that teenagers are immature is just plain fact. Some teenagers are more mature than others and some adults are pretty dang immature. Hell, my grandmother was one of the most immature adults I ever met. I loved her, but she really was.

But none of that changes the base general truth that teenagers are immature. They aren't grown up yet, so it kinda makes sense ya know? The problem is kids take it as some kinda of personal insult when it isn't. It's just the way growing up works.

When it comes to the game, most people who get in trouble or really annoy other people are teenage or early 20's boys. That's true too. Name all the exceptions you want to, it doesn't change the real deal that most of the problem causers still fall into that group. There's all kinds of people who don't fall into that group that cause trouble too. But not nearly as often.

I just can't figure out why teenagers get all bent ot of shape about it. If ya aren't causing a problem, no one's talking about you. I don't cause problems and I know they aren't talking about me. But I'm not blind and stupid. I know what my friends are like and they can pull some dumb stunts sometimes. Dumb stunts that they probably won't do a few years from now, most of them anyway.

Snook reg

If you know there will be exceptions how can you even generalize that? reg

I know that when I was in my teenage years I knew that I was not that stereotypical teen while still being able to acknowledge that there was truth to those generalities.

It requires the ability to take a step back and dispassionately analyze the situation and also the description being applied to it. Do not take every point personally and feel as if you must refute it.

Even if you do feel as if someone is referring to you, take that opportunity to prove your accusers wrong and rise above the immediate desire to fire back a wittily worded reply. Some of the greatest and most important insights are in realizing our own shortcomings because that is what allows us to address and overcome them, which can only make you stronger, better person.

reg

'lood

"On the other hand...
you have different fingers"

--Steven Wright reg

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Have you ever heard of laughing death? It's a disease that causes the brain to rot and deteriorate until the person dies. Now that I think about it, it's not that funny. reg

Oh my... I hate to be sarcastic but sometimes it's a good way to make a point.

When it comes to high school, most people who get in trouble or really annoy other people I am sure of it are between grade 9 and 12! That right there proves that people between grade 9 and 12 are immature!

I bet you anything! ANYTHING! When it comes to a retirement home, most people who get in trouble or really annoy other people I am sure of it are between 60 years old and older! That right there is proof...

My point is, when you have a game where the MAJORITY of people who play it are people between 10-25, of course you're going to be right to assume that the majority of people who cause trouble will be between 10-25. This means absolutely NOTHING! It isn't even a special statistic.

It's a fallacy of begging the question. You're pretty much saying "The majority of people aged 25 who cause trouble are 25 years old."

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

Hmmm, that’s not correct. How about this…If a majority of immature players are in trouble that would prove that Buckwheat’s troubles are a result of Kranar’s immaturity.

Oh forget it, how about we just say, that if player x acts immature, he is immature, and that has no reflection on any player sharing the same age/race/profession/dial-up speed/breakfast preference/income bracket/etc.
reg

quote:

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<squint> How the heck did I end up in this conversation?!

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I'm trying to figure that out. Lemme see.. it's either because you're a boy 12-25 and cause trouble. Or, your too mature. Hmm, that might be too immature. And everyone gossips about you anyways, so what the hay..

I'm just glad as the 'old lady' of the bunch *I'm* not in on this conversation. reg

Just a thought.

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Caels Onae'Rae
AIM : Caels OnaeRae
MSN : Caels_Onaerae@hotmail.com
ICQ : 91446467

[edited because I was bein picky about spelling]

[This message has been edited by Caels (edited 08-19-2001).] reg

My opinion is that their are good young players and good older players. Their are also bad players of each.

Though in my experience I will say that there are a greater percent of problem players who are younger. I sort of assume this has to do with many factors. A greater
percent of of younger players lack maturity than the older players. Again that said I've met some real snert older players as well.

Also I tend to think that the lack of Table
top roleplaying experience is also a larger cause for problems.

Table top gaming is by and large dead, thank you Wizards of the Coast for that. Its no where near as popular as it once was in the eighties or even late seventies.

Theres a good reason that Many gaming companies I recall fondly are nolonger around. I place the blame on video games and Wizards of the Coast.

The ease of play which requires very little work that Video games and Card games have, appeal to more than the work required of
table top games.

This ease of use I say effects people understanding as to what a roleplaying game is. Shooter ups are more popular over all in sales, and the card games are about battle, tactics etc. Roleplay is in the back seat slot anymore.

Card games, and computer shootemup's outsell
roleplaying games and companies go where the money is. This has caused a total understanding of what Roleplaying games are about.

When I first started playing Gemstone back in September of 1992 upon returning from Europe, I came to roleplay. I was a burn't out long term GM for table top games. Running
a ten year long campaign based on The "Thieves World" books edited by Robert. Lynn Asprin and Lynn Abbey.

I also ran long running Mechwarrior campaigns. I used many game systems and a mish mash of systems. It required dedication
on my part to do this. Designing, roleplaying the npcs, and keeping the players interested.

Anyhow enough of my past. When I started Gemstone I got to be a player all the time and I loved it. I made errors and I learned even more about gaming over the years.

When I started though, the game was played by working professionals who came to play as a hobby and an outlet for work stress.

Their were a couple kids playing, GM Giacomo comes to mind aka Chad, And Jesh as well. Jesh used to drive me nuts with his antics as a side note.

Most of those first players also were table top gamers, not all but the majority were. They came with an understanding of what the game was about and what the guidlines were in regards to roleplaying.

Not all of us got along, hell in the old days Corey/Bleys and my character frequently got into spats as I recall. But it wasn't a personal thing, it was a IC roleplaying deal and not ooc.

When we first moved to AOL things got a bit wild and frankly I and most of the GEnie players couldn't handle the load of new players. Many who were young, or bored housewives seeking an outlet for what ever reason.

The aspect and maturity of the game changed, nolonger would peer presure work to keep possible trouble players inline. Temporay accounts via AOL and other issues made SIMU draw a line and take many matters into their own hands, their fix was to what many call "Disneyfy or dumb down the game."

Then the very reason folks came to play the game changed, folks were coming to play to "win" or to meet folks for real life connections. All of this really hurt the game.

Tell me how many of you have had players take ooc what your character does? Taking it personal and treating your other characters the same as they treat the character that their problem with is?

Folks ask me why Celtar doesn't marry and settle down. It started as a joke on my part for Celtar to be a romantic sort and later developed because I found more often than not the players behind the female characters were taking things very personal in a ooc sort of way. I also noted a bit emotional roller coaster along with this and it made things very rough to enjoy roleplaying.

Add to this you have a very large percent of the players who are "very impatient" they do not have the patience to explore, learn and see the game for its depth. They want it and they want it now. Again I see this as the video generation, they learned to play things that were easy to learn and required no patience.

Listen to the language used in the game, on the amulet channels etc and how folks respond and how quick they are to anger if they don't get what they want right away. Its sadly amusing.

I truly do miss at times the pay per hour days of GEnie only. Sure my bills were larger but I was making good money in the computer industry so I didn't care, it was just another fine hobby I had.

Were it still that cost or even a fraction of that cost, I'd still play. Though I'd probably swallow my pride and move back into management so I made more money.<Grin>>

Anyhow I tend to ramble and I bet I am not getting my varied points across clearly, one of my own personal failings I think. Some day I should take a class on how to get to the point clearly and directly.

Real quick side note, Staff has become baby sitters in a way, which is very sad. If you have seen some of the assists that staff has to deal with, you'd think they were saints of patience. Its mind boggling the things folks will say to staff and how rude they can be.

Jim/Celtar and his observations of 23 years of roleplaying games.

p.s: Any errors are just my typical errors of someone who confuses Deutch with English.
I really need to take an english refresher course to undue ten years of Deutchland.
reg

I believe that GS has probably fallen victim to people of the same nature. But then again, times change and so do people, so maybe the new GS is supposed to make too many people happy... which would explain the loads of dissatisfaction emanating from every pore of the land.

Fact of the matter being, there will always be those who hate the changes and those who embrace them. And then there will be those like me... who, as the military states, "suck it up and drive on."

I refuse to let other people ruin the game for me.

------------------
Caels Onae'Rae
AIM : Caels OnaeRae
MSN : Caels_Onaerae@hotmail.com
ICQ : 91446467 reg

Jim, I understand what you're saying and, in many ways, agree. Although I never played D&D, I've always loved roleplay and have indulged in fantasy all my life. It's sad to see the roleplay die in favor of "winning" the game.

It's also disconcerting to see so many people become embroiled in on-line relationships that are going nowhere from the get-go. Unable to roleplay the scenario, they get too involved and are unable to separate reality from fantasy. When that happens, you can bet somebody is going to get hurt.

However, like Cael's player, I refuse to let these little things interfere with my good time. I love the Lands, and enjoy so much the people I've met here. I just try to tell myself that people have fun in different ways, and continue to have fun in mine.

Hugs...

Ryshan's albatross reg

Yep, Wizards of the Coast has ruined a lot of the Roleplaying games of the past. Heck, I was reading their so-called improvements to D&D and they basically just torched the old system for new.

Some of the changes were so mindless too. Changing a spell name just to change it. The books were going for 40 bucks a pop too. So three books min, $120 investment != many people getting into it. Let alone the shear depth of supplements. When I get the AD&D urge, I will use my second edition set mishmashes with the first edition stuff, and I will have a lot more fun.

Oh. Hi.

Khaladon reg

Now, back to the topic.
If you don't agree with me, your immature.
No, I don't really think that, but funny how close that is to the problem. reg

I've fallen in luuuv. If I was 30 years younger.. and..and..

All joking aside. Jim, your comments need to be etched and framed in gold.

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Also I tend to think that the lack of Table
top roleplaying experience is also a larger cause for problems.

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I used to post this very thing on the Official Boards years ago! Ask the 'average' GS player what a GM is, and I'll guarantee that they have no idea. If they did, we wouldn't get comments like, 'how dare the GMs tell me how to role-play. I pay my money I can do whatever I want here'. Sorry, Charlie. The GMs DO set the RP. They establish the champaign/story line. They are the referee so to speak, and if you aren't there to totally RP and participate, you aren't asked to come back.

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Tell me how many of you have had players take ooc what your character does?
Taking it personal and treating your other characters the same as they treat the
character that their problem with is?

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"Siara" is single for that very reason. There is a definite lack of total understanding of what role-play is. For the most part, folks in GS think that because they aren't using OOC words and phrases, that they are role-playing. And to add to your question, Jim.. How many times is a male player harassed and called all sorts of things for playing a female character? I'm not even going to get into the comments we Coven members get after a SimuCon and folks see that my Coven sisters are actually played by men. Unbelievable, uncalled for and totally blows me away.

Table top gaming has a history of men playing female characters - just as RL theater had no female actors, so men played the female roles.

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Listen to the language used in the game, on the amulet channels etc and how folks
respond and how quick they are to anger if they don't get what they want right
away. Its sadly amusing.

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Again, that goes back to lack of knowledge of the roots and history of this type of role-playing game. I started GS with a group of adult players that were involved in a table-top game that was going on it's 20th year. Not uncommon in table top gaming. Tell that to the teenager that jumps into GS and has a complete lack of understanding what a 'developed character' really is.

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Real quick side note, Staff has become baby sitters in a way, which is very sad. If
you have seen some of the assists that staff has to deal with, you'd think they were
saints of patience. Its mind boggling the things folks will say to staff and how rude
they can be.

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They have had to become baby-sitters. In their quest to please everyone and with some of the higher-up staff saying, "people come to GS for different reasons - and can't we all just get along", there will never be a solid definitive answer to the question of.."what kind of game IS Gemstone?". Until that is done, we'll continue to get this 'mixed bag' of players, that when *their* expectations are not met within the game, they'll take it out on the Hosts/Sages/GMs that answer assists.

Bringing table-top gaming to the computer is a brilliant concept, but, man, Simutronics is the prime example of what the major pitfalls are.(No, that is not a Simu-bash, but a plain and honest observation.)

reg

Siara<<

I totally agree on these remarks about how men are treated who are found out to play a female character. Its rather sad to see how the are treated.

Some of the finest roleplayers in the game have been female characters played by men. Even when I knew the player was male I never as a player treated them differently. Celtar always flirted and treated them as they were presented.

I knew their would be fall out and flak for the SIMU Gathers when a few of the Coven were found out to be male players. Its a sad state of the general lacking of maturity in the player base.

I know that Celtar would have in a heart beat married two ladies who are rather legendary and actually were played by guys.
One was a legendary rogue and the other a priestess who used two handers and had a rather inique way of raising the dead.

Part of why I don't play female characters in GS is this very problem. As a long time GM of Table top gaming I "HAD" to roleplay the female parts, and if you weren't giving it your all you were not entertaining the players. I depended upon many sources for how I should roleplay these female NPCs.

TV, Movies, Books, Observations of what I noted of girlfriends, female friends and later on my wife. I think I pulled off most of those NPC's rather well.

In the table top days I even had a few female characters, one a bard and the other a warrior who comes to mind. The bard was a lot of fun and required alot of my creative skills back in the late seventies/early eighties.

Some day I might just role up a female and stretch myself again, but that shall have to wait till the player base grows more mature.

Jim
reg

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Originally posted by LordKranar:

Oh my... I hate to be sarcastic but sometimes it's a good way to make a point.

My point is, when you have a game where the MAJORITY of people who play it are people between 10-25, of course you're going to be right to assume that the majority of people who cause trouble will be between 10-25. This means absolutely NOTHING! It isn't even a special statistic.

It's a fallacy of begging the question. You're pretty much saying "The majority of people aged 25 who cause trouble are 25 years old."

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard

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Glad you had fun with your sarcasm, feel better now? It was kinda wasted though, cause you are way offbase with what you said the ages are of the majority of the players. The majority of players are past college age. Wanna try a differnt point to make?

Snook reg

Kranar was using what normal people call an example, i cant figure out how you didnt know that.

He was using an age group for any game, and if they were terrible roleplayers or what not, then you can attach a label to them. But here in gemstone where 10-25 is the minority theres no feasible way to attach a label on an entire group of people if youve had bad experience with 3 kids whove told you your age.

Nice try, would you like to make a different point? reg

From my experience, more often than not the snerts are younger (say... 15-25). I'm not saying that ALL kids are snerts, just that the majority of snerts are kids. Big difference.

I know tons of great roleplayers and great players who are younger. I don't believe the majority of younger players are snerts, so please don't take my words and twist them around. reg

Does anyone remember learning "sets?"

You'd have these circles, some would be inside others, some outside others, and some linked to others.

Would go kinda like this, in text explanation:

ALL dogs are mammals. SOME mammals are dogs. ALL mammals are animals. BIRDS are not mammals. Are any BIRDS dogs?

Back in 4th grade I thought that was pretty neat, learning sets. But if you think about it, the same thing applies here.

In Gemstone, MANY kids play the game. MANY kids, simply by definition of the term, are immature. SOME adults are also immature. Therefore, one could conclude that more kids who play the game are immature than adults who play the game. One MUST also conclude that SOME kids are mature, and one MUST also conclude that MANY of the immature people, whether adult or kid, will be trouble.

Immature - 2 a : lacking complete growth, differentiation, or development ;a thin
immature soil; b : having the potential capacity to attain a definitive form
or state : >, ;a vigorous but immature school of art; c : exhibiting less
than an expected degree of maturity ;emotionally immature adults;

Kids, by definition are immature. They haven't grown fully yet. Not mentally, physically, or emotionally. There's no "fault" or "blame" or "accusation" involved. It's a fact of life. SOME kids rise above their immaturity and become more mature as a result of dozens of possible factors. But you can't expect kids to be mature. They're not supposed to be mature. They're KIDS. It's the ones who exploit their immaturity, who revel in it, that makes the people in more advanced stages of physical, mental, and emotional development, think to themselves, "I didn't come to this game to be a freaking babysitter, and if I wanted kids I'd have some of my own."

On the other hand, you have more "advanced" people of all ages griping and whining about the maturity level of the game's players, and see that there is little, if nothing, anyone can do to stop it. I left because of it. I left not only because of the immaturity of people (of all ages) but also because of the whining of people who couldn't handle it and continued harping on it in the game.

To summarize:

MOST immature people are disruptive. MOST immature people are children. SOME children are terrific. MANY adults are terrific. SOME adults are disruptive. SOME immature people are child-LIKE, but not child-ISH.

So there. Nya.
reg

An all the homophobics came over here to. Due to the Gay Banner adds that offended a lot of people.(We will avoid this discussion)

I think immature is a wrong answer for a lot of the people that this word is thrown at. Maybe emotional is better. I know I am at times. So is everyone.

I mean. Immature can be used against any of us. It's immature the way you bash everyone. It's immature to call people childish. Your immature because I am older...Blah blah blah.

edge reg

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Have you ever heard of laughing death? It's a disease that causes the brain to rot and deteriorate until the person dies. Now that I think about it, it's not that funny. reg