The Players Corner Archive

http://www.geocities.com/lordscintillion/Apology.html

Enjoy.

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
For all you who INSISTED that Scintillion had nothing to do with the GS Freaks site...

http://www.geocities.com/lordscintillion/Apology.html

Enjoy.

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Now that was TOO funny. I dont think there is anyone out there who will not know that the apology is a direct requirement on Scint to return to GS.

It really doenst matter to me if he really did the site or not but these "rubber hose" tactics and forced confessions are *just* as bad as the actual crime in most cases esecpicually when someone is Innocent.

If Scint did or did not create the site then I think the apology was probably the quickest way to return to the game rather then having to go through a long drawn out process in either case. And since Scint hardly cares about what people think about him anyways you get a very empty apology.

What I also wonder though is this. They way I figure there are only a few people who should even know that the Apology site even existed.
1) Scint
2) The 3 people Scint had to apologize to and the ones that they told
3) The people Scint himself told about the site
and
4) the GM's that supposedly arent supposed to disclose any information regarding someone else's account or lockout details.

Bottom line is though that Scints back and everyone probably wants to have this issue droped as fast as possible. The apology was probably the quickest and best way for all folks involed right or not, innocent or guilty.

Either way though the post was to funny reg

Someone posted the link to it on the official boards. Said they got it in an email. So it's going around.

GG reg

And welcome back Scintillion. Glad to see that you've gotten yourself back into GS3, but don't expect any literary awards from me for your web pages. Keep on keepin' on. reg

reg

------------------
Man of many opinions reg

quote:

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Ahem - Nahiar, where are you?

---

The problem's plain to see:
Too much technology
Machines to save our lives
Machines dehumanise

The time has come at last
To throw away this mask
So everyone can see
My true identity
I'm Kilroy! Kilroy!
Kilroy! Kilroy! reg

Lord Deprav reg

[This message has been edited by Rusval (edited 07-27-2001).] reg

reg

I have always thought that role-playing an "evil" or simply "unfriendly" character was wonderful if difficult thing to do. I applaud those that have been able to pull it off but at the same time find myself mystified by those that seem to take such joy in doing what they can to irritate another simply because they can.

Scint has tended to strike me as the latter in what I have heard of him although I must point out that I have not ever met him myself.

I was unhappy as was many to see that hurtful web Site go up. When I heard that Scint was banned supposedly for being the creator of that site I was taken aback as this was more than anything I had ever associated him with, being an act intended to solely inflict pain on others.

If they are sure he did put up that site I feel they should stick to their guns and he should not be allowed to return. If he did not create it than he should also stick to his guns and refuse to apologize as no game is worth compromising your own name.

This supposed apology coupled with a "plea bargain" sort of deal just drags out something that has been a painful subject for many who were written of in such a disparaging manner.

If he did not create it he should have the courage to say so here now and stand up for himself.

If he actually was involved with the sites creation...well then I think he should find another place upon which to bestow his presence.
reg

Nice try with your analysis, but the apology wasn't written by a GM. Don't quit your day job.

reg

Lord Deprav reg

quote:

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Originally posted by GS3 JRT:
"Ok I compared the writing styles of various GM's that post on the official boards and scints apology. It is verified that scint's apology letter IS in fact written by a certain GM."

Nice try with your analysis, but the apology wasn't written by a GM. Don't quit your day job.

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That was meant as a sarcastic statement poking fun at how GM's supposedly decided that Scint created the site. From what I understand GM's analyzed the site with logs and posts they had of scint speaking and writing. But its ok you probably haven't been following the thread as much as I.

reg

I don't know what special skills you have, but as far as I know, following the thread is as easy as reading it, which I did.

You are right, I missed the connection with the Writing Analysis comment.

However, it was quite obvious to me the first time I saw that site it was Scintillion.

It was also quite obvious the first time reading Scintillion's appology that he did not write that. However, I'ved talked to several sources and it wasn't a GM that wrote it. reg

Apparantly the site wasn't good enough for Simu (Simu being the big mean 6'4, 300 pound bully) and so they refused to let him back in. But bottom line is he did write the apology.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

quote:

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Originally posted by LordKranar:
He had a discussion with the staff and the website was supposed to be a favor to them so he would be let back into the game immediatly under HMC status for 6 months.

Apparantly the site wasn't good enough for Simu (Simu being the big mean 6'4, 300 pound bully) and so they refused to let him back in. But bottom line is he did write the apology.

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I'm glad to hear that Simutronics didn't intentionally mislead anyone. That makes me feel a lot better.

I assume then that Scintillion is re-doing the website and Simutronics is going to let him back into the game once he gets it to a satisfactory level.

(Just as a side note - anyone want to make a wager if Scintillion will last the 6 months before he's in trouble again?)

Regardless, a deal is a deal - and I'm glad to hear that Simutronics is honoring their end of the deal - even if it is with a scumbag.

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Magister:
Regardless, a deal is a deal - and I'm glad to hear that Simutronics is honoring their end of the deal - even if it is with a scumbag.

---

I don't know Scintillion from adam, but calling someone names is just as bad as what he was accused of and admitted to. Scumbag or whatever. I do it, but I don't mind them back. I am just trying to even the scales.

I really think all of this is amazing because they were names directed at fantasy names and no real information was given except a picture that someone consented to be on the web in the first place.

I happen to agree with the whole freak thing. They look freakish to me. Does that make me evil? I guess it does to people who have little else to focus on in life.

If you don't like the opinion then for crying out loud move on.

CEO's posting on a obscure BBS take the cake too. What should I expect from chump companies but chump leadership.

reg

That's not true.

reg

I think the problem wasn't so much in what he wrote, but the fact that he told all his buddies that the apology was forced and that he didn't mean any of it.

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
"Apparantly the site wasn't good enough for Simu (Simu being the big mean 6'4, 300 pound bully) and so they refused to let him back in. But bottom line is he did write the apology."

I think the problem wasn't so much in what he wrote, but the fact that he told all his buddies that the apology was forced and that he didn't mean any of it.

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Oh you are his buddy?

Obviously you are since you know that.

Now we get the truth.

reg

I agree with that...

As much as I respect that fact that Simu employees as well as the CEO of the company are posting on the boards; in corporate America, that _does not_ happen. If you do that you risk quite a bit. I know that most CEO's prefer reading the message boards on yahoo regarding their company to see what stockholders as well as other people think about how things are going...of course you could get your feelings hurt...but you _never_ see a post from the CEO.

A point that I completely looked over and I'm glad someone brought it up!

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by JustLilOlMe:
<<CEO's posting on a obscure BBS take the cake too. What should I expect from chump companies but chump leadership.>>

I agree with that...

As much as I respect that fact that Simu employees as well as the CEO of the company are posting on the boards; in corporate America, that _does not_ happen. If you do that you risk quite a bit. I know that most CEO's prefer reading the message boards on yahoo regarding their company to see what stockholders as well as other people think about how things are going...of course you could get your feelings hurt...but you _never_ see a post from the CEO.

A point that I completely looked over and I'm glad someone brought it up!

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Now why must you feel you have to run them off my boards. If I loose posters from you calling people names, I will be highly upset. I don't mind people stating their opinions, but hey give them a break for once, I would love these boards to loose the "Simu haters" stereotype.

So everyone settle down.

Buckwheet reg

quote:

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Originally posted by JustLilOlMe:

As much as I respect that fact that Simu employees as well as the CEO of the company are posting on the boards; in corporate America, that _does not_ happen. If you do that you risk quite a bit. I know that most CEO's prefer reading the message boards on yahoo regarding their company to see what stockholders as well as other people think about how things are going...of course you could get your feelings hurt...but you _never_ see a post from the CEO.

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I don' t think Simutronics has any stock offerings open to the public. Last I heard it was still a small private company. And if CEO's did start reading more about what people felt about their companies, I would respect that much more.

Too much nowadays its about bottom lines rather then what their customers feel. Maybe more CEO's should read what customers really feel about their companies instead of reading it off a spreadsheet that their advisors give to them.
reg

I doubt that will happen anytime soon, unfortunately. The majority of your posters are people who have severe grudges against Simutronics.

reg

As much as I respect that fact that Simu employees as well as the CEO of the company are posting on the boards;>>

Buckwheat I did point out that I appreciate the fact that they _are_ posting...and I don't want to run them off...

Vicdotcom...did I ever say anything about Simutronics being a publically held corporation...sheesh...the arguments some people put forth on these boards are one's that could be a lot better if people _read entire posts_.

Before you post...please read everything.

.

.

PS Buckwheat...I appreciate these boards as well as I know the other people do here more than you might know. The other boards were miniscule in effect compared to the obvious growing effect that these boards have. You've done well and if no one else tells you haven't, then let my comments carry other's as well. reg

Could that be because this forum is the only place that people can discuss their negative experiences with the staff at Simutronics. As hard as it is for you to believe, Noone, favoritism and unfair treatment of players does exist.

I have been playing for five years and never had a reason to read the boards, post messages, or write letters to staff until recently. It was disappointing to discover that Simutronics doesn't want to hear from players with legitimate concerns, or questions about bugs. Posts that attempt to educate players as to the types of things that can go wrong in the game are pulled. Posts asking for explanations, or help in understanding are pulled. Letters seeking advice, or clarification go unanswered.

In my opinion, the only people Simutronics wants to hear from are the "favorites" that attend the conventions, and display their unconditional support of staff, irregardless as to what the facts are.

As with every profession, and company, there are good and bad employees/volunteers. I'm sure there are staff at Simutronics that try their best and attempt to be fair. Unfortunately, they seem to be the silent minority.

Gandmor

[This message has been edited by Gandmor (edited 08-02-2001).] reg

There are always going to be a few bad apples that slip in and screw things up. From what I've seen, Simutronics has been pretty good at getting rid of these people. reg

quote:

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Originally posted by JustLilOlMe:
Vicdotcom...did I ever say anything about Simutronics being a publicly held corporation...sheesh...the arguments some people put forth on these boards are one's that could be a lot better if people _read entire posts_.

Before you post...please read everything.

---

JustLilOlMe,

I just want you to know that I do read entire posts. In fact when I decide to reply to a post I actually read the entire original post a few times. I think most people do read entire posts before they reply. The problem is that what you write and what other people infer from what you write may be two different things.

For example when you stated this in your previous post "As much as I respect that fact that Simu employees as well as the CEO of the company are posting on the boards; in corporate America, that _does not_ happen." That inferred that you belive that Simu would be considered a part of "Corporate America". Where as I think that it is actually a "small private company" thus using the stock offerings as proof of that. Now the relevance is that I can understand how a Corporation Leader would not want to get that involved with a small message board. But on the other hand the owner of a small private company would and should know all of what everyone thinks.

Now this is not a personal attack on your or anything, but this does happen a lot and I do see people saying "read the entire post before you reply" (now sometimes they don't read the entire post also though). But you have to understand also that whatever point you are trying to pass across might not be the same point that someone will get from reading your post. It would be a lot easier if we can hear you read your post the way it was meant to be read. But when we read it off a screen it is easy for people to pick up nuances in your post that you did not mean.

But I am sorry if I misread your post and infered something else from it than you meant. But please don't be offended by thinking I didn't read all of it.

Vicdotcom

[This message has been edited by vicdotcom (edited 08-02-2001).] reg

You accuse of being cry babies and ANTIGS. But we are just the opposite. We love Gemstone. We want the poor customer service to stop. We want the GM abuse to stop. Want a reasonable response from feedback. You don't bother to try and see why people are posting certain things.

We bring proof.

edge

[This message has been edited by LordKranar (edited 08-02-2001).] reg

quote:

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Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
In my opinion the vast majority of the staff are here to better the game and act decently and fairly.

There are always going to be a few bad apples that slip in and screw things up. From what I've seen, Simutronics has been pretty good at getting rid of these people.

---

Just to let you know I completely agree with what you are saying. I also think for the most part the staff does a good job. And it is only a few bad ones that screw things up.

The problem is a few bad ones is often more than enough to give the entire operation a bad reputation. For example.. the NYPD has gotten an awful reputaion for being corrupt and abusive. But really lets say 100 officers (and that is a generous estimate) out of the over 100,000 in the entire NYPD are abusive. Really its still less than 1000th of a percent thats bad.

Overall I think that a most of the staff have done so much more good than bad. But it is still those few that are abusive that will continue to give the rest a bad reputation. reg

Not to slam you or anything.. but it kinda makes me laugh when you go out of your way to defend yourself in saying that you read the entire post before responding.. and then respond to me, when I'm not the one who wrote the post.

See your own post, and you'll see a quote by JustLilOlMe. I (Desharei) am Roberta. I have no idea what that other person's first name is.

Heh...

Roberta
reg

quote:

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Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
In my opinion the vast majority of the staff are here to better the game and act decently and fairly.

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Agreed.

quote:

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Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
There are always going to be a few bad apples that slip in and screw things up.

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Agreed.

quote:

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Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
From what I've seen, Simutronics has been pretty good at getting rid of these people.

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I have no idea in that regard. I certainly hope it is the case.

I do know that there are at least 2 GMs that come to my mind that take the "guilty til proven innocent" approach, and seem to make judgment calls on their emotions at the moment.

By and large though, I think most do the best job that they can. reg

quote:

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Originally posted by GS3Aura:
I don't know Scintillion from adam, but calling someone names is just as bad as what he was accused of and admitted to. Scumbag or whatever.

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Actually, I believe you misread what I was saying.

I wrote:

quote:

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Regardless, a deal is a deal - and I'm glad to hear that Simutronics is honoring their end of the deal - even if it is with a scumbag.

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....even IF it is with a scumbag.

I wasn't saying that Scintillion was a scumbag. I was saying even IF he is one, Simutronics should honor their commitments. reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Desharei:
Um, Vitdotcom...

Not to slam you or anything.. but it kinda makes me laugh when you go out of your way to defend yourself in saying that you read the entire post before responding.. and then respond to me, when I'm not the one who wrote the post.

See your own post, and you'll see a quote by JustLilOlMe. I (Desharei) am Roberta. I have no idea what that other person's first name is.

Heh...

Roberta

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Ohh god thats to hillarious! I really have no idea where I got your name from Roberta ill correct that right away. Too funny though.

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
"I would love these boards to loose the "Simu haters" stereotype." (Buckwheet)

I doubt that will happen anytime soon, unfortunately. The majority of your posters are people who have severe grudges against Simutronics.

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So why are you adding to their frustrations? Why do you feel you must antagonize them. I personally don't have a "grudge" against simu. However I have dealt with some seriously backwards GM's.

Oh I suppose you want a list eh?

These GM's are the ones that have given me most grief in the game.

Brauden
Andraste
Feedback

Now I will not sit and flame anyone today or make them sounds like super bad guys. However I had legit issues with questions and they just used the "gm power trip" if you will on me.

However on the flip side...

Mahegh helped one of my characters get coins back after the dyers tent opened and people were making fake FGB. He worked on it for months and I got 60% of my coins back.

Kyalia(sp?) is one of the most awesome GM's I have met.

Kennesaw, Aephir, and now Bradach for the work they did, or are doing on Rivers Rest.

Then we have Zulkata, Khaladon, and Tigermist.

So as you can plainly see my list of GM's who I think are a plus to my gaming enviornment is longer then the ones I think are hindering. However the GM's can slave for years making a place like Elven Nations, I can move there and have a wonderful time being there, but all it takes is one GM to come in and ruin my day/week/month/60/90 days and as soon as I talk to feedback or I try to speak to the GM on the issue it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

So for all you GM's who have had numerous complaints, or are afraid if you post you will get burned, are worried that people don't want to hear you out, maybe you should look at why some GM's get several "Thank yous" and you don't.

I think that sometimes the implementation series is flawed. Such as causing things to break, when you haven't finished the kill or be killed bug. Making enchant harder, but yet not reducing critter attacks to match the no longer huge defenses. Causing creatures to search your body, with breakage, without enchanting, and still having the creatures get 1 shot kills.

Those are my "beefs" with the game. However GM's who implement these things don't seem to want to answer directly back to a question.

My other bug problem with Simu is that if something rare and extreamly bad happens to your account(s) they don't have the time of day to hear you out. I had a similar issue and I was willing to hop on a plane, fly to St. Louis to speak directly to a customer service person. They wrote me a letter telling me to stop calling and harassing their billing personal as they are not setup for that kind of thing. He lectured me about making a long distance call, which I was paying for, to let them as a company know my characters actions were not mine.

I ended up with a 60 day lockout on all accounts. It has made me really re-think why I pay to play. I have been playing since I was 12. I am 21 now. Count the years there folks, I have had less then 5 total warnings on 7 accounts. Never been locked out, never been banned from posting on the boards. Yet they treated me like someone who abused their game on purpose. It was a slap in the face and I don't feel I had to take that.

I have these boards dedicated to the players of their game, I spend my money on their game, yet I got slapped in the face, and they would do nothing to allow me to regain my dignity other then write a digital message in a digital environment to someplace where someone I don't know was going to read what I wrote and determine the fate of my accounts.

All I wanted was to talk to someone on the phone so they could hear what I was saying, instead of reading it.

But they wouldn't.

Now, you can go on saying Simu is doing their best till your blue in the face, you are going to have a hard time convicing me otherwise. You can preach about how the GM's are great, but thats just your experience.

All I can say is I hope and I really do, that someday soon you find yourself in the position I was in, stabbed in the back by someone you care about, then you get stabbed again by the gaming company. I hope then you can come here and say "Hey they were just doing their jobs."

I bet you any amount of money, you won't beable to.

Buckwheet reg

Because the other boards wouldn't put up will all the stupid flamewars, so they all came here to flame.

reg

This is actually far from the truth. The spark that ignited the flame and gave birth to these boards are known by a few individuals (it all started with Kelood), but the goal of this board is to remain an unofficial BBS for GS players to discuss grey issues and get specific info on anything concerning GS.

Yes, we have the occasional "I just started GS, how do I make the best rogue/ wizard/ warrior." but overall this BBS is for info and GS complaints.

And once again... if you see any flame, insult, unwarrented comment, impersonation or violation of T.O.S please notify the moderator or administrator to check it over. God knows how much editing and deleting I've been doing.

We're also looking for new moderators.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

quote:

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Originally posted by vicdotcom:

JustLilOlMe,

I just want you to know that I do read entire posts. In fact when I decide to reply to a post I actually read the entire original post a few times. I think most people do read entire posts before they reply. The problem is that what you write and what other people infer from what you write may be two different things.

For example when you stated this in your previous post "As much as I respect that fact that Simu employees as well as the CEO of the company are posting on the boards; in corporate America, that _does not_ happen." That inferred that you belive that Simu would be considered a part of "Corporate America". Where as I think that it is actually a "small private company" thus using the stock offerings as proof of that. Now the relevance is that I can understand how a Corporation Leader would not want to get that involved with a small message board. But on the other hand the owner of a small private company would and should know all of what everyone thinks.

Now this is not a personal attack on your or anything, but this does happen a lot and I do see people saying "read the entire post before you reply" (now sometimes they don't read the entire post also though). But you have to understand also that whatever point you are trying to pass across might not be the same point that someone will get from reading your post. It would be a lot easier if we can hear you read your post the way it was meant to be read. But when we read it off a screen it is easy for people to pick up nuances in your post that you did not mean.

But I am sorry if I misread your post and infered something else from it than you meant. But please don't be offended by thinking I didn't read all of it.

Vicdotcom

[This message has been edited by vicdotcom (edited 08-02-2001).]

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Thanks for the honesty Vidotcom...I appreciate it greatly. At least you didn't respond to my poignant comments with another poignant comment.

I will read entire posts from now on as well. reg

I also feel that the list of good GMs is far longer than the list of bad, however one bad experience unfortunately outweighs and outlives most of the good.

My worst experience to date was with Carraig, to whom I give the benefit of the doubt by saying was having a bad day, and left me in the consultation lounge for 4 days, until Gromial (the first SGM to sign on while I was logged in) stopped by to chat for 2 minutes and let me out. I was not blameless in this situation, however Carraig engaged in a complete departure from professionalism and acted with vengeance out of his personal emotions.

Even Andraste was professional enough remain rational when her line of debate against me proved groundless. Carraig simply locked me up. It's been almost 12 months after my run in with Carraig's bruised ego and I'm still upset at his juvenile attitude.

On the flip side, Lemarche once stepped in to assure me, from a GM's perspective, that the sorcerer I had 'helped die' and dragged into the wilderness was not the one whose unfocused implosion had killed me 20 minutes earlier. He didn't HAVE to step in, and he could have easily given me an official warning, but instead he was understanding, professional, treated the situation with intellect rather than mindlessly following policies, and as a result earned my respect.

I wish I had more stories like Lemarche and fewer like Carraig. I hope that the lowest denominators among the staff will be removed. reg

You have habitual trouble makers who refuse to play by the rules. Dozens of people complain about them and when a GM takes the initiative and locks them out or warns them, they immediately cry "GM ABUSE!!!" and come to these boards and bitch about it.

I've been in plenty of PvP situations. I've dealt with Andraste and she was fair to me each time. I'm not saying she kissed my rear end and gave me exactly what I wanted, but she dealt with the situation fairly. The problem is that people refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.

Once you get a bad record for being a trouble maker, you better believe the GMs are going to keep a closer eye on you (as they should!). Someone who has 10 warnings and gets reported about or assisted about every day is going to be under a close watch. The minute they screw up, they're going to get called on it. I don't see a problem with this. If you play by the rules, you won't have problems with GMs. When you constantly skirt the grey area of policy and make a habit of getting in trouble, you're going to get talked to/warned/locked out.

So you can keep telling me about all these corrupt GMs. I'm not going to believe it considering the sources, especially when I have seen many of them in game doing things very contradictory to what they admit to here. What do I see here on these boards? People giving a very biased account of THEIR side of the story.

You'll never get the real story because the GMs can't come here and tell you their side. They can't come here and tell you when a person is lying when they say they haven't gotten a warning in the past year, or when they say their warnings are spread over 6 accounts. They can't show you the person's record.

So you keep on blindly believing everything your friends tell you. Or for those of you who feel GMs harrassed you personally.. take a good look at your OWN actions. I'm not saying GMs are perfect, but they are nowhere near as bad as you all like to believe. reg

You basically call me a liar and anyone else who says they have had a problem with a GM. How in the hell can you say I provided one side? I bet you have no idea what my situation was, is, or will be. So since you don't know, you can't say a word about it.

So just go ahead and live your perfect GS life and stop being so involved in what everyone else thinks of your beloved GMs.

I bet you have better things to do with your life then to constantly say No your wrong! GM's aren't perfect but I have never seen them anyother way!

So just stop it ok? You will never provide enough evidence for your side to prove that GM's are the angels you are making them out to be. Just like I will never be able to convice you that people with 0 warnings, 0 lockouts, and 100 years of playing are also able to be mistreated and have been mistreated.

And since you were so kind to insult me by saying that I am not a reliable source, maybe you should re-think your posting strategy. I have a pretty thick skin, but you know your going down the wrong path when I get pissed.

Buckwheet

[This message has been edited by Buckwheet (edited 08-02-2001).] reg

I'm also aware of a player that has received the maximum lock-out on their first offense, and is innocent of any deliberate wrongdoing. While a popular player that admit they purposely abused, and developed a script to profit from a bug, received a minimum sentence.

It can't be coincidence that players discussing their experiences, and complaints all mention the same GMs.

Gandmor reg

As for whether posting a complaint on this board should be considered “one sided”… well, yes it should. There are three sides to any conflict, the defendant’s version, the prosecution’s version and what actually happened. When someone posts on this (or any) board, they are simply giving their version of what happened. Does that mean they are lying? Not in the least, but someone else may have a different version, and until that version is heard, we only have one side of the story.

This post is in no way to flame you Buckwheat, but rather to state a differing opinion, which I hope is still allowed in the Player’s Corner (come on, you have to admit, things would get boring here rather quickly if everyone only wrote agreeable posts <grin> ).
reg

Approximately six weeks ago, there were a furor of posts on the official boards regarding lock-outs and customer service. Hundreds of posts were pulled. I believe it was Sayrena that made what I thought was an excellent suggestion. Of course, her post was pulled almost instantly, but I think I recall the main points.

Her suggestion was if a player and GM assigned to the case agreed, they would present their cases to a judge and jury of peers. Restrictions would be in place, the judge and jury would have to be legend age or older, each side would have a time limit to present their case, the jury's decision would be final, each player would have a limit as to how many times they could have a case go to court, and so on. A case could only be heard if it dealt with in-game actions, some bugs, killings, pickpockets. The more serious issues, account hacking, AFK scripting, would be handled by the staff.

Having a court session weekly (monthly?) might be more work, but perhaps everyone would be happier with the outcome than what is currently in place. Personally, I think most players would accept the punishment if they knew that they were able to state their case, someone impartial was listening and judging the arguments, and they weren't made to feel like they were "Guilty until proven Innocent".

Gandmor

reg

You sell your house's deed for 900 million silvers and you don't think that could possibly be a bug?

As for Porcell (I assume that's who you are talking about in the second case). If he's what you'd call a popular player, or one with the in crowd... he's lucky he got off with a minimum lockout. reg

And here lies the problem. People that know very little about an incident think they know enough to make an assumption of guilt. I posted details on another board, I won't repeat them here. My friend already asked me to delete one post I made here today. I'll be lucky if she speaks to me after all this.

Another issue that perturbs me, I can understand people feeling the need to hide their identity if they are posting negative opinions about Simutronics. What I don't understand is why the die-hard supporters of Simutronics are hiding? The argument that they don't want to be "harassed in the game" doesn't make sense. Surely, the staff would be eager to assist such loyalty if the person was being "harassed" in the game.

Bottom line, it's easy to talk-the-talk, but take a shot at walking-the-walk.

Gandmor

reg

As for the court suggestion you mentioned. I don’t see how a court would remove the favoritism/abuse factor. If someone is disliked by some on the jury, they will still cry foul, while if a well know character was let free, others would cry favoritism. I would also question as to whether there would be a legal issues with a court. To get a true and fair verdict against a player, the jury would need to hear all of the facts, which would include the players past history of wrongdoing. Would this pose any legal complications? On the plus side, I think a court would allow the opportunity to RP many unique scenarios (you would have to add in the ability to form a lynch mob, for those cases where the legal system failed<grin> ).
reg

In regards to your comments, maybe with a judge and 12 jurors taking an oath that they aren't related/close friends, or had negative interaction with the accused, somehow it would come to light if the jury was "crooked", or was a "hang 'em high" group. The accused would also have to agree that any past wrong-doings would be presented to the court by the GM that was handling the case. Obviously, a player with numerous warnings, and lock-outs won't have as good of a chance to win their case as someone with a clean record. Simutronics would have the final decision what cases could be handled in court, and what cases warranted handling by Simutronics staff.

It could be that not many cases would get referred to court, but perhaps it would open up the lines of communication more than it is now. And as you mentioned, the roleplaying aspects it would offer would be interesting to say the least.

Gandmor
reg

honorable judge 'lood

reg

Just as long as they didn't charge 125K an hour!

Gandmor
reg

What are you going to do? Lock me out from these boards? Why? Cause I don't agree with you?

As far as your situation, I never once claimed to know who you are or what happened in your situation.

I'm just saying I don't believe that the GMs are as terrible as you people seem to believe. Sorry, but they're not out to get you. reg

Please allow me the same courtesy when I support my friend that I believe was treated unfairly and punished too harshly. Not to mention the lack of response to letters, and concerns. Based on my experiences, I believe communication, and customer service between staff at Simutronics and the players could be vastly improved.

In almost every post I have read, people that have negative experiences with GMs are saying that not ALL GM's are bad. In most posts, people are reciting the positive things GMs have done, not just the negative. I don't think ALL GMs are terrible, I think there are GMs that take things too personally, and make heated and rash decisions.

I concede players are far from perfect, can't you consider that not ALL decisions and actions by GMs are always correct, and there is room for improvement from BOTH?

Gandmor reg

No one has any intention of doing this based on your previous posts. Just thought I would clarify that.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
"And since you were so kind to insult me by saying that I am not a reliable source, maybe you should re-think your posting strategy. I have a pretty thick skin, but you know your going down the wrong path when I get pissed."

What are you going to do? Lock me out from these boards? Why? Cause I don't agree with you?

As far as your situation, I never once claimed to know who you are or what happened in your situation.

I'm just saying I don't believe that the GMs are as terrible as you people seem to believe. Sorry, but they're not out to get you.

---

Go back re-read your post. Tell me that your blanket statements did not include me.

If you continue to make blanket statements that you can't provide evidence on why make them?

Kick you off my boards? No I am not like GS board monitors that fear someone ruining their boards, or their perfect posting world.

Buckwheet

Who is still cleaning the egg off his face.

[This message has been edited by Buckwheet (edited 08-04-2001).] reg

Just remember that Buckster over here has provided y'all with a place to vent, a community to say what you want to say. Hell I've challenged him myself on these very boards. But when you say stuff like "Whatcha gonna do, lock me out?" Well, I'd say he has more tolerance than I. If you said that to me, the only response you'd get would be "c-ya, don't let the door slam on the way out."

Don't be sayin stuff like that to the OWNER of the boards. It's kinda like teaching a pig to fly. It won't work, and it'll just annoy the pig.

(And people wonder why the GMs lock out players who talk back! ::rolls eyes:

Roberta
reg

Buckybaby tweaked the thingamawhoie and reconfigured the whatchamahickie!

BIG kudos to the Buckmeister, and let the nay sayers find someplace else to take their swinepoddle!

reg

I am glad I can call him a friend.

Only one person I can think of that got banned from these boards and it was because of constant racial terms and vulgarity. He was asked to stop and didn't several times.

So think twice about what you said.

edge

[This message has been edited by edge (edited 08-03-2001).] reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Desharei:

(And people wonder why the GMs lock out players who talk back! ::rolls eyes:

Roberta

---

Personaly I think that is the point that Nooneimportant is trying to make. He/She is just wanting to be blocked off the boards to make hippocrites of everyone. What I just do is ignore most of his/her posts because they pose no relevance in my life whatsoever. There is no chance of changeing the way Nooneimportant feels and there is no way that he/she will ever change the way some of us feel.

reg

NOI as I have come to know them makes very good points most of the time. This time however the phrasing in which they went about making their argument struck me in a very personal manner.

In effect what I gathered you were saying is that because of my recent lockout I should have accepted responsibility. Well I did do that, it was when my family and friends were being locked out because they were showing signs of "attachment" to me that I felt I was the subject of mistreatment.

I called Simu, they spoke with me and I was very polite to the staff, and the staff did their job. They calmed me down, and made things more clear to me. After a few more long phone calls I was conviced of the methods Simu uses, and understood that I had to go through those channels, albeit a bad channel in my opinion.

I contacted feedback, told them Go ahead lock me out, even though I was not in control of the characters at the time, I understand they still need to be locked out per your policy. Feedback then lectured me on my phonecalls, and proceeded to lock out all the accounts. I wrote another letter to which feedback said they would unlock some of the accounts.

Am I grateful? Sure, they didn't dishearten more then just me. They let my friends still play. Did I accept the lockout? You bet I did. Was it MY personal fault? Not in the least. Even the police who arrested the person responsible agreed.

Why could it not be me? Well I would show the family photos of my vacation, along with videotape, and ticket stubs. However since Simu takes the guilty till proven innocent with only a digital based medium to provide your evidence, I could not properly represent myself.

I have no reason to tell anything other then the truth. No reason to tell it one sided.

So to sum up, here are the blanket statements that annoyed me. The GM in reference was Daceir who is in charge of lockout. Chris Metz the person behind custserv@simutronics.com.

quote:

---

The problem isn't so much with GMs, it's with players.

---

It was not a problem with me.

quote:

---

The problem is that people refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.

---

I wrote Simu and told them to lock my accounts out, however I felt there should be an exception, but if there could not be, then I concured that my accounts needed to be locked out.

quote:

---

Someone who has 10 warnings and gets reported about or assisted about every day is going to be under a close watch. The minute they screw up, they're going to get called on it.

---

I have less then 5 warnings in 9 years playing the game.

quote:

---

If you play by the rules, you won't have problems with GMs. When you constantly skirt the grey area of policy and make a habit of getting in trouble, you're going to get talked to/warned/locked out.

---

Explain to me what rules I didn't play by? Other then trusting someone of MY blood in my home?

quote:

---

So you can keep telling me about all these corrupt GMs. I'm not going to believe it considering the sources, especially when I have seen many of them in game doing things very contradictory to what they admit to here.

---

Nobody here knows who I was all the time. If I were ready to let everyone know what a horribly bad person I was before I grewup, I would tell you of all the scams I did WITH GM knowledge, or the fact that my best friend was a GM for a period of time, and would forward me GM related e-mails of events.

quote:

---

They can't come here and tell you when a person is lying when they say they haven't gotten a warning in the past year, or when they say their warnings are spread over 6 accounts. They can't show you the person's record.

---

Direct slap in my face. Just because I say something doesn't mean I am lying, just like it doesn't mean I am telling the truth. Don't tell people what to think about someone especially if you don't know how credible they are. I myself am highly credible.

quote:

---

I'm not saying GMs are perfect, but they are nowhere near as bad as you all like to believe.

---

As stated before you only know what you see as well. So stop trying to force your beliefs as truth, just like you say we are forcing are beliefs as truth.

Thats enough for today. I want this to drop. Nobody here will ever know the truth about me, my characters, or my 9 year GS career. However it should be enough for me to say, hey you are striking at the wrong nerve move on, and that should be good enough for people to understand and respect.

If your mother told you you were being disrespectful but you didn't think you were, you would still re-think your attitudes and how you conduct yourself just out of respect for her. I don't want as much respect as your mother should have, I am just asking for a small slice.

Buckwheet
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by edge:
Buckwheat is a very fair person. That was out of line. He will bend over backwards for anyone.

I am glad I can call him a friend.

Only one person I can think of that got banned from these boards and it was because of constant racial terms and vulgarity. He was asked to stop and didn't several times.

So think twice about what you said.

edge

[This message has been edited by edge (edited 08-03-2001).]

---

And incase this person still reads these boards, if they are willing to promise they won't do this anymore, I would like to have them back. While they were just as confrontational as anyone, I think they did add intelligent conversation once they got passed the racial slurs.

Just my two cents.

Buckwheet reg

Truth is I used Kelood's logic. If a person who was banned can make a new username and under that new username refrain from racial slurs and the such, then there is no need to have to ban them further.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

If you want to take what I said personally, go right ahead.

I'll just say this, I don't know a thing about your situation. I don't know your characters and I don't know your record. Most of the stuff I said has little to nothing to do with you.

I DO know that there are plenty of liars on this board. This whole "GS Lawyer" thing proved at least one of them. If you are a truth telling person, good for you. I'm happy to hear it. Unfortunately (as far as people with lockouts are concerned) you are in the minority.

It's just like when you go to a prison. Everyone there is innocent, or at least they claim to be. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
It's just like when you go to a prison. Everyone there is innocent, or at least they claim to be.

---

Hehehe you'd actually be suprised of the statistics that prove how many people that get convicted are actually innocent (and these are only the ones that CAN be proven to be innocent). Michigan this year alone had to release 13 death row inmates because they were proved to be innocent of their crimes.

With the new DNA testing precident there should be a lot more comming. Now im not saying that all of them are innocent... but youll really be suprised how many convictions are actually innocent innocent of the crimes across the nation.

(sorry for being off topic)

[This message has been edited by vicdotcom (edited 08-04-2001).] reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
Buckwheet-

If you want to take what I said personally, go right ahead.

I'll just say this, I don't know a thing about your situation. I don't know your characters and I don't know your record. Most of the stuff I said has little to nothing to do with you.

I DO know that there are plenty of liars on this board. This whole "GS Lawyer" thing proved at least one of them. If you are a truth telling person, good for you. I'm happy to hear it. Unfortunately (as far as people with lockouts are concerned) you are in the minority.

It's just like when you go to a prison. Everyone there is innocent, or at least they claim to be.

---

Exactly my point. Since you don't know, who put you, or what information granted you, the position to make statements that group all persons who have been locked out into one category?

From my point of view you can't. You are just stating your opinion as fact. "Its not a problem with GM's its a problem with players."

In your next post, I challenge you to provide evidence that suggests, then proves, 100% that your statements are 100% accurate for all persons who have ever experienced a lockout, and for 100% of the lockout reasons given.

If you can't then I suggest you re-think how you state your opinions, or re-think always playing devils advocate. You can only get away for so long using the same argument over and over and over and over and over(is this getting annoying yet?) and over and over and over again.

Buckwheet reg

When I say that it is a problem with the players, that is my opinion. Also, there are always going to be exceptions to every rule. I personally have never heard of a lockout that I felt was unwarranted. That does not mean that one doesn't exist, it means that every single one that I personally have heard of, I felt was deserved.

Also, generalizations are just that... generalizations. They are not 100% proof positive facts that cannot be disproved. They are usually opinion and are usually true of the majority of people being generalized. As I said before, there are exceptions to every rule. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
If you can't tell opinion from fact, then there's not much I can do to clarify it for you.

When I say that it is a problem with the players, that is my opinion. Also, there are always going to be exceptions to every rule. I personally have never heard of a lockout that I felt was unwarranted. That does not mean that one doesn't exist, it means that every single one that I personally have heard of, I felt was deserved.

Also, generalizations are just that... generalizations. They are not 100% proof positive facts that cannot be disproved. They are usually opinion and are usually true of the majority of people being generalized. As I said before, there are exceptions to every rule.

---

You know that a little more than half your posts are contradictions?

I'm not going to clarify...

My opinion is this...

And generalizations are this...

IMHO...you have no idea what comes out of your mouth. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoOneImportant:

Also, generalizations are just that... generalizations. They are not 100% proof positive facts that cannot be disproved. They are usually opinion and are usually true of the majority of people being generalized. As I said before, there are exceptions to every rule.

---

I think its interesting that you can't give specific examples of how your generalizations included me. Hence, your lame attempts at skirting around the issue are failing. You made generalizations that were very broad and have a large sweeping effect. I just called you on it, and told you to re-think your broad reaching statements because frankly it was offending a lot of people.

Buckwheet reg

edge

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by edge:
She can't hear you Buckwheat. All openminded, free thoughts have been eradicated from her brain. The Simu Staff has done a good job of brainwashing or favoritism.....Suck harder and you head will cave in.

edge

---

Heh.

Her head's been caved in since when she was dropped as a baby...

(That's the only logical reason for the brilliant statements that she makes every single day)

Thank you NoOneImportant for adding so much wealth and knowledge to my vocabulary.

Now for me to go have a much more stimulating conversation with my dog.

reg

But there the rare situations where people have unusual, complex situations that have gotten caught-up in the rules and TOS requirements. I don't know anything about Buckwheat's situation, but I've seen where people have, through no fault of their own, lead to things that lead to a lockout.

The problem is, you have to go to some pretty grave extremes to get locked out... warnings and other measures interceed first. If you are on the edge of getting locked out, have reformed, and then something bizzare happens you can get stuck. It's rare tho... unless you are going ape in the game, it takes a pattern to get your self goners.

And, of course, it takes a WHOLE lot to get a lockout that doesn't expire. These are all safeguards to help protect the innocent. They are not perfect, because it isn't possible for them to be perfect. But, I might point out, we're always evolving them towards better systems.

I think NOI, in his/her own way, was just trying to point out that hyperbole does not make truth. As in, just because "GS Laywer" claims to be a lawyer, doesn't make it so. "Why would I lie?" being the weakest argument of all.

And, like in our boards, a lot of the good points of any discussion get lost in the emotional fire of the debates. That's where message boards lose their productive value and why keeping a lid on that stuff helps them be more useful.

-- David
reg

That is pretty much what I was trying to say.. thanks David.

Unfortunately getting dropped on my head as a child and having an IQ of only 3 has made it impossible for me to be so eloquent.

So sorry. reg

The ever helpful,
'lood

"I just can't meet your expectations dad, we all can't perform at sea world ya know!"

reg

Thanks kelood. Don't know what I'd do without you. reg

I continue to argue that there are players who receive a maximum lock-out on their first "offense", no prior warnings, nothing. I agree there are cases that deserve such harsh punishment, such as account hacking. A maximum lock-out is NOT justified for a player that has a spotless record, has a bug dropped in her lap, and has a reasonable explanation as to why she didn't realize it was a bug immediately.

Mistakes are made on both sides of the fence. As a player, I can admit it, why is it so difficult for the staff/CEO to admit it?

Gandmor reg

You don't have to name names, but I am interested to see what the bug was that was abused and why you believe this person had a spotless record.

Just curious. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
Explain further, Gandmor.

You don't have to name names, but I am interested to see what the bug was that was abused and why you believe this person had a spotless record.

Just curious.

---

Ok...

You've obviously never gotten in any kind of legal trouble NOI. You can't have a perfect record of guilt cases. Not everyone is guilty. You know what you remind me of? Go rent the movie 28 days. It's about a girl that goes to a rehab facility. You're one of the drug & alcohol counselors that believes "EVERYONE IS AN ADDICT!" "YES YOU'RE AN ADDICT, AND YOU, AND YOU, AND YOU!!!!!" "Yes counselor...I went to my 90 meetings in 90 days...but I regreted to tell anyone that I drank 15 of those days (In your case, might be something else)."

-Ask for the point in that argument Which I'm sure your cunning lil' mind will try and use against me in an argument...

--Well here it is: You can suck up to all the GM's you want. You can kiss all the ass you want. You can explain exactly how much you'd like to bend-over for them. But I'm sorry...you're going to except the fact that not 95% of all GS lockouts come to people that have bad records. You haven't taken everything into account.

---With that said: Yes, I believe Simutronics has to uphold its company and make sure that they create a gaming environment that will be exciting for people to come to everyday and that will encourage good game-play (Yadayada, that's about as kiss-ass as I'll get). But the fact remains: DO YOU HAVE TO BE SO DAMN STUBBORN? Simutronics does not have to be so non-lenient on things.

People change...if you give them a chance.

Go rent 28 days, you'll see ;-) reg

The vagueness of the internet medium leaves plenty of room for ambiguities. Happens everywhere. Heck, I got my post pulled and my account whacked from this message board after only one post! <grin>

-- David
reg

Do people change? Yeah.

That's why they're given warnings first. Then 30-day lockouts. Then 60-day lockouts. Then after all that, if they're still not rehabilitated, they get permanently locked out.

I don't believe that this person got locked out permanently on a first offense (with a SPOTLESS record). But it is possible, which is why I want to know what the bug was and how it was abused. Also, I want to know how Gandmor can be CERTAIN that this person had a spotless record.

Call me a GM rear end kisser if you want. reg

"There is another victim in the house sell bug. She had a custom wall-hanging in her
home. The merchant that designed the wall-hanging advertised his work as very rare and priceless. The night the home sell feature was implemented she paid to have the furnishings moved. She was confused by the deed process, and waited hours for an assist that never came. She ended up selling the property and furnishings that were appraised as extraordinary for a great deal of silvers. She did appraise another home that had no custom wall-hanging and the furnishings were
appraised as average. She assumed the home system was working correctly. She made a total of four assists, before and after the sell. The last GM that helped her, told her he researched the sell and that everything was fine.

She shared her wealth with a few friends and made one purchase for herself. When she became aware that the amount of the deed was a bug, she reported, explained exactly what happened, and gave the names of the friends she had shared her coins with. All the silvers were easily recovered. She was immediately sentenced to the maximum lockout period."

Knowing this player as long as I have, I believe 100% that she thought the extraordinary furnishings in her home was related to the custom wall-hanging. I have been in Gemstones twice as long as she has, and I too, believed her good fortune was due to the custom wall-hanging. If the other home without the wall-hanging had been appraised as extraordinary, that would have been a warning, but it was appraised as average. Which made sense, everything in that home was average and purchased at the furniture stores. The home appraised as having extraordinary furnishings had the custom wall-hanging.

As far as her spotless record, it's a fact, not an opinion. If further proof is needed, she received letters from GM's that stated the only reason she didn't receive a permanent ban was because of her clean record. The GM's that wrote these letters should have copies as well, in case anyone believes these have been tampered with (they haven't).

"Your history was taken into account. Were you a disruption, had previous lockouts, or have been anything other than a valued member of the community you would in fact at this time be locked out forever."

" Your cooperation following our initial discovery of the problem is the sole reason your account was not immediately terminated."

Gandmor reg

I stated she received a maximum lock-out on a first offense, not a permanent-ban.

Gandmor

[This message has been edited by Gandmor (edited 08-07-2001).] reg

This is in direct conflict and opposite of what the CEO stated in his post. And what NoOne stated in his post.

CEO *
"The problem is, you have to go to some pretty grave extremes to get locked out...
warnings and other measures interceed first.

And, of course, it takes a WHOLE lot to get a lockout that doesn't expire."

NoOne *
"That's why they're given warnings first. Then 30-day lockouts. Then 60-day lockouts.

Gandmor reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
And how much did she sell the house for?[/B]

---

That should have absolutely no bearing on the situation.

Another example...although a harder one to use is the Aanalar/Irathra situation. No...I'm not talking about Aanalar/Irathra...I'm speaking of Sunnan and Randeis who were locked out. Both of them were locked out for incredible amounts of time just b/c they were associated with the scheme. Of course Aanalar/Irathra got a perma-ban...I didn't find that fair.

Another "wonderful" GM intervention is Rikz. Now this is the saddest thing I've ever heard of. I've known Rikz as another character for over 4 years now. And to this day I've never known him to do anything bad. One day a GM came down and actually pulled him aside believing that he was scripting. Of course he was not. Have you ever heard of someone who's been able to setup scripts and actually let them run effectively through a 56k modem? Not as of recently I haven't. The character went from 0-50 in about 5 months. Which is incredible. I know that the hard facts aren't too good there...I should've used a better example.

Then let's do that...

This is a turn-back-the-clock for everyone.

Demi: One of my favorite clerics EVER. She was an incredible person to be around, always came and raised you and always was willing to help everyone out. One day she decided that she didn't want to raise someone because that person was talking back to her and disrespecting her. Well guess what...Demi had no previous warnings, no previous lockouts, but she was banned permanently after that person that never received the raise reported to lockout.

Does it make sense? No.
reg

Actually, in her case, she refused to raise the person and he reported afterwards that no one else would raise him after she made it known that she refused to and the reasons why she refused to....he dacayed and cried that she made every other cleric in the lands not raise him (back then it was around 10-15 at any given time). The biggest reason for her lockout was that she was on an "Overhead" account with AOL (AOL employees/workers didnt have to pay for the service, including Gemstone).

Since Gemstone didnt make a penny for having her (or the other overheads, of which I was one...she and I both worked for "Follywood" under Motley Foole) there, we were required to NEVER engage in PvP (which they decided her case was, although indirect), if the system became overcrowded, we had to log out (never got to do a big invasion or merchant) and we were basically at the mercy of any twit who wanted to harass us...we existed purely at the whim of Simutronics.

So when it became a case of a customer they were paid to have in vs. a customer they werent paid for, she got the boot.

~M~ reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
How long was her lockout for? And how much did she sell the house for?

---

NOI, why does it matter? You keep stating all these facts without anyway to verify them as such.

I will make it simple. You can't.

Unless you are Gemstone staff or the player involved then there is NO WAY YOU CAN VERIFY OR STATE AS FACT.

Any other questions?

All of your messages are just as full of crap as everyone elses.

You simply have no more weight than anyone else here.

You are the weakest link. Good bye.

reg

She was given a temporary lockout for whatever (I never did remember the exact details but it involved her character's in-game husband at the time).

As an overhead account (I had one too!) she was required to NOT discuss it on the boards, or to anyone, what happened in the consultation lounge. But instead of honoring that *rule,* she went and posted the her side of the situation on the boards. THAT is what got her perma-banned.

There was a HUGE hue and cry about it because people had read the posts before they could be pulled, on all sides of the coin. And her making a public issue of it made a spectactle not only of herself, but cause the player whose character died no end of harrassment in the game. And anyone else who tried to get involved on either side of things were subject to in-and out-of game jibes and pokes and cajoles and insults.

She probably would have been reinstated if she had kept the situation to herself, *as was required.* But she refused to keep quiet, and Simu carried out on their warning and banned her. Which they did warn her they would do.

Roberta (who was on Prodigy at the time and we all moaned and groaned about it in the Prodigy GS chat room when we heard about the whole thing)

reg

I don't see how my asking for more information on a situation before I form an opinion on it is "stating something as fact." But then again, what do I know? I'm just a stupid idiot who was dropped on my head as a child.

If she sold the house for a billion silvers like Morandas did, then I'd say she should have known something was wrong. But if it was for a more reasonable amount, I can understand not realizing it was a bug.

[This message has been edited by NoOneImportant (edited 08-07-2001).] reg

Someone explain this to me? They don't use real names. It isn't like you are exposing a real person's life history. It is a game and a fantasy persona. Even they hide behind fake names.

Popeye the sailor man is a loser. This didn't hurt anyone. The only people hurt by this are the people who take the game way too seriously and really think they are represented by their character. If that is the case then they need way more help.

reg

It would be like going into court and saying 95% of all <add ethnic group> are found guilty of this crim. Therefore my case rests that this person, who is of <this ethnic group> is also guilty.

Buckwheet reg

I am commenting on all of your posts that contain the "Facts" you state as such.

Like I said those are not facts. Logs sent to you by your little buddies are not facts.

Either you were there seeing something happen first hand, which would mean you are the character or staff. No other way period to verify any information. NONE.

You have no way to impart your infinite wisdom either on what should the average player "should or shouldn't" know when they see a bug. Selling a house given today's whacked economy shouldn't startle anyone when someone pays more than a million silvers for a god damned toy (text based at that). reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Maali:
Wow...someone else who remembers Demi.

Actually, in her case, she refused to raise the person and he reported afterwards that no one else would raise him after she made it known that she refused to and the reasons why she refused to....he dacayed and cried that she made every other cleric in the lands not raise him (back then it was around 10-15 at any given time). The biggest reason for her lockout was that she was on an "Overhead" account with AOL (AOL employees/workers didnt have to pay for the service, including Gemstone).

Since Gemstone didnt make a penny for having her (or the other overheads, of which I was one...she and I both worked for "Follywood" under Motley Foole) there, we were required to NEVER engage in PvP (which they decided her case was, although indirect), if the system became overcrowded, we had to log out (never got to do a big invasion or merchant) and we were basically at the mercy of any twit who wanted to harass us...we existed purely at the whim of Simutronics.

So when it became a case of a customer they were paid to have in vs. a customer they werent paid for, she got the boot.

~M~

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That's right! I totally forgot about the "overhead account" part of it. Sheesh...thought my memory was good, just a little off

Ya...there's been a few lockouts over the years that have been strange...but I think that Demi's situation was definitely the most vocal. I know that she cameback for a little while as well as another character. As did Aanalar after he was sold.

reg

I stated that most (READ MOST, not ALL) people who are locked out and come to the boards about it lie about the situation. Prove me wrong. The CEO even stated that as fact.

Unfortunately people seem to think MOST means ALL. It doesn't. If I say MOST people of <whatever> race commit <whatever> crime, that is not saying ALL people of that race commit it. It's saying that most do. As I said before, there are exceptions to every rule. reg

Both of the statements repeated at the end of this post are NOT TRUE. A player WAS locked out for 90 days that had a SPOTLESS record. The CEO can easily verify if I'm telling the truth, or if I'm lying. I gave enough information in my posts that he should be able to determine the name of the player and check her history.

We can argue until the cows come home if she deserved the lock-out, we might all have a different opinion on that. What I'm protesting, are the statements made by the CEO and staff (and in my opinion, NoOne is staff, or is closely related to a staff member) that are clearly false.

CEO *
"The problem is, you have to go to some pretty grave extremes to get locked out...
warnings and other measures interceed first.

And, of course, it takes a WHOLE lot to get a lockout that doesn't expire."

NoOne *
"That's why they're given warnings first. Then 30-day lockouts. Then 60-day lockouts.

Gandmor
reg

-- David

ps. BTW, I just locked out NOI
reg

What way do you have to verify that Dave/Bardon or whoever is telling the truth? You don't. Just because a CEO or the president of the U.S. says something doesn't make the past incident verifiable or even remotely true.

So again you are just expressing an opinion based on no facts at all.

You will never know the facts of any situation that you are not directly involved with.

You can't even generalize your comments because you have no way to see the absolute truth of what happened when. You depend on comments and observations that all could be doctored by GM's or even players.

You still are the weakest link.

Good-bye.
reg

So you're telling me that no one ever lies about the facts concerning their lockouts to make themselves look better or to make themselves look like the victim?

Come on now. We all know better than that. reg

Bardon locked you out because he CAN.

Seems reasonable to me, it's HIS game no?

reg

Why isn't there an option for player's to have all information on both sides released if they sign a release?

Well made decisions should be able to stand the light of scrutiny.

reg

First, NOI claims that she was locked out for "no reason." No reason!? We'll see about that.

This all began when NOI had the audacity to claim that GS Laywer was full of doodoo. Even after GS Lawyer give her the ol' "why would I lie?" speech. Which should have shut her right up.

WARN 1: Unacceptable use of Reason and Logic in an argument.

Eventually GS Laywer did, in fact, admit to the whole being full of dodo thing. But, a warn is a warn and we don't take em back because of silly things like facts.

Anyway, undeterred, she went on to dispute the concept that people are locked out unfairly. To add insult to injury, she even claimed that people... and this is the part that goes just too far... might (in a hushed voice) lie on the message boards!!!

All right, now normally you need more than one warning to justify a lockout. But we figured we might be able to force NOI into posting an apology web site to everyone here if we made a plea-bargain arrangement. So her and I did a little horse-trading over IM.

Now, as many of you know, NOI had already denied she had anything to do with the aforementioned heresy but she was willing to take the blame in order to get her long-time character back. I had it, at the time, strung by the toe above boiling pitch.

This, of course, was a ruse. To what end, I don't recall... but I seldom think these things through anyway. So, despite a 400 MEG web site dedicated to making amends, I decided she had made at least three typos (though I can't really say for sure, because I can't spell gowd) and reneged on the deal.

Oh sure, she has her supporters. But most now realize she's been lying the whole time and that her whole reason and logic stuff is just a cry for help.

Now, of course, I can't go into any further details pending the outcome of various litigation resulting from this lockout. She's hired this sharp torte lawyer from down south. <sigh>

At this point, I'm pretty sure I'm going to lose my company to NOI. In order to avoid this, I'm resigning immediately and putting her in charge. At least I get to keep my equity in the company. But she's making me clean the bathrooms now!!!!

But, despite this turn of events, it’s very clear that she was locked out for some very good reasons and I stand by them. Sure you might have done things differently, but you don’t run a game company, now do you?

Oh wait. Now I don’t either.

-- David
The artist formerly known as the President & CEO of Simutronics
reg

Unfortunately his toilet scrubbing skills are severely lacking, but I decided to keep him on anyways. At least he's good for some comic relief. reg

'lude

reg

Question 1 - Do you like to ban people for NO REASON? Especially those people with spotless records?

Question 2 - Do you like to give out warnings all the time, especially unwarranted ones?

Question 3 - Do you have a life? (Those who answer yes need not apply)

Question 4 - Have you ever been in the CL with Andraste.. and lived to tell about it?

Question 5 - Will you constantly abuse your powers and harrass people? (Those who answer no should get lost now)

Question 6 - Will you perma-ban everyone and anyone who says ANYTHING negative about Simutronics?

Anyone who passes the interview will then be trained in how to screw with people's minds by Andraste, Kennesaw, Brauden, Aephir, Sayzor and all the other "eeevil" GMs.

[This message has been edited by NoOneImportant (edited 08-08-2001).]

[This message has been edited by NoOneImportant (edited 08-08-2001).] reg

Question 1 - Do you like to ban people for NO REASON? Especially those people with spotless records?

Only if they fail to capitulate to my every whim, well…sometimes even if they do.

Question 2 - Do you like to give out warnings all the time, especially unwarranted ones?

Oh, yes, next to eating kittens, nothing pleases me more.

Question 3 - Do you have a life? (Those who answer yes need not apply)

Could you explain what you mean in greater detail, or at least using only 1’s and 0’s?

Question 4 - What do you think of Andraste?

She’s weak, meek and far too lenient. But I hear she plays GS nude, so I guess you can keep her on the staff.

Question 5 - Will you constantly abuse your powers and harrass people? (Those who answer no should get lost now)

I do that now with no power. But I feel if I DID have power, people might start to notice. That way I could pay back all those fools who made fun of me in high school.

Question 6 - Will you perma-ban everyone and anyone who says ANYTHING negative about Simutronics?

Well, first I’d make them write an apology web site…THEN I’d ban them.
reg

When I started posting here, it was frustrating that you wouldn't CONSIDER that a GM could make a mistake, that a player with a clean record could get locked-out because she's naive, that a few people just might have some valid and legitimate concerns.

Now, I just feel very sorry for you.

Gandmor reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gandmor:
NoOne,

When I started posting here, it was frustrating that you wouldn't CONSIDER that a GM could make a mistake, that a player with a clean record could get locked-out because she's naive, that a few people just might have some valid and legitimate concerns.

Now, I just feel very sorry for you.

Gandmor

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As you and I have pointed out Gandmor...we don't know where she's from.

I'd suggest giving up the hopeless cause...it's going nowhere. reg

Now gimme the Senior GM position or I'll tell my other boyfriend Bardon to lock your butt outta here!

R

reg

And another thing...uh... wait... your boyfriend, Desharei?

-- David
reg

Hrrmph.
reg

Good advice, JustLilOlMe. I agree, it is hopeless.

Thanks to all that read my posts and made reasonable, mature responses.

Gandmor reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Gandmor:
"I'd suggest giving up the hopeless cause...it's going nowhere."

Good advice, JustLilOlMe. I agree, it is hopeless.

Thanks to all that read my posts and made reasonable, mature responses.

Gandmor

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You have had some very good posts Gandmor...I'd just consider giving up listening to or commenting towards anything NoI says, argues, etc.

That's the hopeless cause

Didn't mean for you to stop posting.

reg

I see some people running from a good debater....

<whistles>

Can anyone say "GS Lawyer"?

-- David

reg

Show me a good debater and I'll be happy to debate.

And I'm curious, CEO, why don't you allow "debating" on your boards?

Gandmor

[This message has been edited by Gandmor (edited 08-08-2001).] reg

quote:

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Originally posted by JustLilOlMe:
<<CEO's posting on a obscure BBS take the cake too. What should I expect from chump companies but chump leadership.>>

I agree with that...

As much as I respect that fact that Simu employees as well as the CEO of the company are posting on the boards; in corporate America, that _does not_ happen. If you do that you risk quite a bit. I know that most CEO's prefer reading the message boards on yahoo regarding their company to see what stockholders as well as other people think about how things are going...of course you could get your feelings hurt...but you _never_ see a post from the CEO.

A point that I completely looked over and I'm glad someone brought it up!

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So, you're saying that CEOs that take the time to post (or more generally, actually roll up their sleeves and circulate with the customers) are bad or unprofessional CEOs?

Sort of reminds me of how out of touch Queen Marie Therese (not Antoinette, as has been erronously recorded) was with her's townsfolk abject poverty and hunger, because she didn't take an interest. It never hurts to be kind, or generous, or remember where you came from.

Maybe Microsoft would have a better reputation if Bill Gates had more contact with the consumers than he does now. Oh sure they have the reputation of being the biggest conglomerate, but they also aren't spoken of very highly in a lot of the inner circles of the high tech arena because of their megalomanic style, not to mention the behind doors bullying tactics -- a lot of which was discovered and reported about when the case against Microsoft began.

And I wouldn't dream of insulting Buckwheet and the moderators here by calling this site in any way obscure or insubstantial. Matter of fact, it's very well known and from what I can see, very well read.

I'd bet, too, that a lot of people are unwilling to post simply because they don't want to deal with the unwarranted personal attacks... like being called a chump, told their IQ is less than 3, etc. Because comments like that generally invalidate any point the person was trying to make, and with each such comment, they loose more and more credibility.

I'm sorry to hear that people are getting emails from posting stalkers... if it's in any way a violation of the ISP's TOS, FORWARD it back to the ISP with a complaint. Their home web site usually has a list of their rules and an address to send complaints to.

--A. reg

I also asked David to read this thread and take a look at your friend's case because I don't believe (if you're telling the truth) that the lockout was deserved. In fact, I believe he even stated here that if you would give him her name, he would look in to it.

The personal attacks really don't bother me. I could care less if you want to read my posts or not. I post what I believe to be the truth since I've seen so much BS on these boards. (Case in point - GS Lawyer) reg

Debating is allowed.

Flaming is not.

Unfortunately there are many people who can't debate without flaming people in the process. (And yes, I admit to flaming people on occasion as well, so DON'T start with the hypocrite stuff)

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
[BUnfortunately there are many people who can't debate without flaming people in the process. (And yes, I admit to flaming people on occasion as well, so DON'T start with the hypocrite stuff)

[/B]

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YOU KIDDING?

Incredible.

I'm proud of you NoI.

Today is Thursday now...I will not flame you until Monday if appropriate.

Very very proud.

You've accepted that you as well are "bad".

:-)

reg

::Casts a flame at everyone::

To hot to handle huh?

Everyone gets emotional and these boards have a lot of emotion. That is why we love them so much. Just keep the cuss words and racial slurs out of the posts please. Kranar is really working his back half off editing everyones posts.

I know, I know. I am a Mod of this section. But I work all night and sleep all day.

edge reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Gandmor:

Another issue that perturbs me, I can understand people feeling the need to hide their identity if they are posting negative opinions about Simutronics. What I don't understand is why the die-hard supporters of Simutronics are hiding? The argument that they don't want to be "harassed in the game" doesn't make sense. Surely, the staff would be eager to assist such loyalty if the person was being "harassed" in the game.

Bottom line, it's easy to talk-the-talk, but take a shot at walking-the-walk.

Gandmor

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That's pretty funny. You say people should just tell their names and then if people give them crap, call on the staff to help them out. So you're saying even if they aren't suckups, they should end up looking like suckups just cause some people can't keep crap to themselves and have to take it out on people in the game.

Maybe some of us just want to be left alone and not deal with crap from other players and don't want to mess with gms either. Being a tattle tale on people who can't play nice isn't my idea of a good time. I don't have warnings and don't get into trouble. I just want to be left alone. Easiest way to do that is not give out a name.

Snook reg