The Players Corner Archive

I defended Scintillion because I believed a lie that he fabricated. Because Scintillion and I have been good friends for so long, I've trusted him before in the game with some pretty serious exchanges and had no reason to believe he would or could lie to me. When he sent me the e-mail from Lord Six about the website, he truthfully had me convinced that Lord Six made it.

Infact I even had a conversation with Lord Six where he took the blame for the website and really had an Anti-GSIII attitude. I almost felt uncomfortable talking to him because of his attitude towards GS players. Lord Six isn't Scintillion, but Scintillion did ask that Lord Six take the blame for the site as a favor. So with that and the fact that I was friends with Scint for so long, I couldn't possibly believe that he made the site.

Well Scintillion is gone for good. He lied to me, he lied to everyone, and his apology was a phony attempt to get back into the game. He dug himself a hole, insulting friends of friends, and he got some old time friends of his in deep trouble with his lies. Manodith is one who comes to the top of my head.

I do regret having supported Scintillion, not because of what others think of me, but because I led myself to believe the lie because I tried to be nice and ended up being a gullible fool.

So, if this means my rep is now toasted as I've had some people IM me, so be it. If anyone whose anyone knows anything about me, they'll know that quite frankly, you can bash me all you want, if I find the insult funny I might even laugh along with it and jot it down for future reference.

Basically, I've had many people try and hurt my rep or make me look like a fool. But my attitude is basically:

"You can hurt Kranar, but you can never hurt me, "

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

Loyalty is a supreme virtue; upon whos shoulders great societies rise and legndary armies prevail. There is no dishonor in being loyal to your friends. Only in abusing the sacred trust of a friendship, as was done to you.

David reg

Lord Deprav
Friendship is more important than life itself. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by LordKranar:
<< Afterall, we all know that Simutronic's is WORSE then the CIA.. Heck, maybe they HACKED his site and put it up there themselves! Yeah, that's the way it was done! >>
Okay, before I'm hounded over my previous support for Scintillion, I have unfortunately discovered the truth behind what happened. By all means, take this post and make an Anti-Kranar Spit-on-his-rep Website, but atleast listen to it first.

I defended Scintillion because I believed a lie that he fabricated. Because Scintillion and I have been good friends for so long, I've trusted him before in the game with some pretty serious exchanges and had no reason to believe he would or could lie to me. When he sent me the e-mail from Lord Six about the website, he truthfully had me convinced that Lord Six made it.

Infact I even had a conversation with Lord Six where he took the blame for the website and really had an Anti-GSIII attitude. I almost felt uncomfortable talking to him because of his attitude towards GS players. Lord Six isn't Scintillion, but Scintillion did ask that Lord Six take the blame for the site as a favor. So with that and the fact that I was friends with Scint for so long, I couldn't possibly believe that he made the site.

Well Scintillion is gone for good. He lied to me, he lied to everyone, and his apology was a phony attempt to get back into the game. He dug himself a hole, insulting friends of friends, and he got some old time friends of his in deep trouble with his lies. Manodith is one who comes to the top of my head.

I do regret having supported Scintillion, not because of what others think of me, but because I led myself to believe the lie because I tried to be nice and ended up being a gullible fool.

So, if this means my rep is now toasted as I've had some people IM me, so be it. If anyone whose anyone knows anything about me, they'll know that quite frankly, you can bash me all you want, if I find the insult funny I might even laugh along with it and jot it down for future reference.

Basically, I've had many people try and hurt my rep or make me look like a fool. But my attitude is basically:

"You can hurt Kranar, but you can never hurt me, "

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard

---

Kranar...

I appreciate that you've actually debunked your original opinion in a way that was more gracious that just downplaying the entire situation...

You aren't the only one that was fooled.

I never said that I didn't think Ryan did/didn't do it in a definitive manner...however I did tell him I was glad to see him back.

When an over 250 lb. kid can tell you that he runs to the gym and does 330 lb. bench presses with absolutely no problem you question 1 time. When he tells you that he's a 'pimp' and just runs around 'bangin' hoes' you question 2 times. When he tells you that he's going to Simucon and is going to 'own people' you question 3 times. When he tells you that a certain girl 'wanted' him you question 4 times.

Scint was one of my best buds in GS...hell I helped roll the character and absolutely forgot to change his last name "Eckert"...so his fame was 'messed up' (Sorry for the non-clarification in an earlier post of mine on this subject: by 'messed up' I mean that his family fame and personal fame numbers are not equal and are a little off vs. them being the same as he wanted from the get-go)

As for this subject...

Hrmmph...I dunno how to react...Scint could blow open a bunch of different worm cans and just explode certain things about people...as a lot of people can see...

Just my lil' opinion...

BTW:The dead-give-away on the website should've been Scintillion Necklace=$250.00 Airplane Flight=$300.00 Shirt=$45.00 (Those are just random numbers off my head but you get the idea)...

The idea of Scint actually being caught with a foot in his mouth: "Priceless"

[This message has been edited by JustLilOlMe (edited 07-30-2001).] reg

Some who have trusted Scintillion to the point of letting him use their accounts have been banned from this. Luckily it's not permanent.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

JRT reg

Now why would they ban her royal perfectness? I've heard so many stories about her that it's sick reg

Just curious. reg

Edward is long gone, and he's on the list as is Darthagan.

As for the previous post. I believe 4 other accounts have been locked out due to this.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

Edward and Striling are perma banned.

This would be a good thread to start. Should people that are perma banned be deleted from the fame list? Should start that on the official boards. If they ever let me post again there...chuckle

edge reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by edge:
Should people that are perma banned be deleted from the fame list?

---

In my opinion, no. Regardless of how the character may have ended up, whatever accomplishments that they may have made are part of history.

History shouldn't be altered just to make things less painful.

My 2 cents.

reg

Lord Deprav
Just a comparison. reg

Bottome line. He didn't create the site. Who did? Figure it out for yourself. He may have contributed to it, that is all he did.

He did get banned for the site. Which they try to say he didn't. They did make a oral agreement in emails and ingame with Scint that he would be allowed to come back if he did the apology site. They lied.

Now, I want to know...Why is Scintillion such a bad guy for allegedly lieing to accomplish what he wanted - when Simutronics did the exact same thing to get what they wanted?

Pot calling the kettle black. Someone should have taken the moral high ground in the situation.

edge

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by edge:
Now, I want to know...Why is Scintillion such a bad guy for allegedly lieing to accomplish what he wanted - when Simutronics did the exact same thing to get what they wanted?

Pot calling the kettle black. Someone should have taken the moral high ground in the situation.

---

While I certainly can't condone Scintillion's behavior, I certainly hope that Simutronics didn't intentionally mislead Scintillion into believing that he'd be able to return - if they had no intention of doing so.

The end does not justify the means.

To cite an example, an european man desired to create an uniform society of superior physical and mental persons.

Quite a worthy goal. His methods however are another issue entirely.

His name was Hitler. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Magister:

The end does not justify the means.

To cite an example, an european man desired to create an uniform society of superior physical and mental persons.

.

---

Furyfro

reg

But as the old saying goes, whoever brings up Nazis first loses the debate. Conversation over, you lose.

Roberta
reg

I was only attempting to illustrate the concept that doing whatever it takes to accomplish a goal, is not necessarily the best route to take.

If Simutronics lied or intentionally misled anyone, I am disappointed.

So, how about this simplified version:

I hope Simutronics didn't lie.
reg

[This message has been edited by NoOneImportant (edited 07-31-2001).] reg

“Anyone who thinks that I actually have the time, interest, or otherwise to create a website dedicated to GemStone III or GemStone III players is either ignorant, or doesn't know me at all, and has zero to base it on”

Now, either that statement was a lie, or his posted apology was a lie, either way, it does not lend much to his credibility. But I guess if you wish to bash Simutronics bad enough, credibility most likely won’t be a factor.

P.S. I too hope Simutronics did not lie. reg

Lets say your absolutely right edge, simutronics lied and covered up events in this whole big 007 cover up operation. More power too them. If thats what it takes to get somebody out that has lied and broken trust to people that supported him, gotten people in trouble and thrown out of the game because they believed his words, and over all made a fool out of many a person, just to selfishly prove some whacked out dillusional point, great.

Gemstone is the better without someone like that running around.

'lood
He dug his own grave. He burned bridges at both ends.

And still people follow...

reg

-- David
reg

http://www.geocities.com/lordscintillion/Apology.html

reg

Other than that, I don’t think it would be worth time it might take to fully comment on this site. reg

Even if you look past all that and look at their "deal," Scint might have been in clear except for this one point:

>Solomon says, "But yes...I can say that if you took responsibility for the site and it wasn't a "I'm doing this cause they're making me"....it would go a long way"

Ah, the fatal flaw. Clause broken, deal void. Do not pass go, do not recollect a level 100+ rogue.

Thanks for playing Scintillion. reg

I've probaly had maybe 3 warnings in six years, and for nothing other than bad language.

------------------
Asmodea Drey'Haus reg

Really I am talking about anyone with warnings. But Scint was a big deal up on these boards, and talk about him is still going. So I will put him up as an example. If you have clicked on that link provided by someone on these boards and gone to his site, you'll have seen a copy of an email from Eric Latham, to Scintillion. Towards the bottom it gives a list of his warnings.

Now look at the type of warnings Scintillion got, then look at how much time he put in the game.

From a period of time 07/31/1999 - 06/19/2001 he got a total of 7 warnings. Four of those warnings were, I assume from what it looks like, for some type of word he said. Vulgarity. A curse word something with 4 letters perhaps. Hmm, you know how often we hear these words every day from peoples mouths or even on television... It could be something you don't want in your game, but look at how much it goes around everywhere else. Do they kick TV shows off the programming schedule? No. One of the vulgarity warnings was for sexually explicit language.. I don't know what instance he got this one, but I got one like this once. I was on the boulder..(Yes I hang there sometimes when I am bored.) Someone.. Jastio I think, was annoying me again so I webbed him or something. I dont remember exactly either way a little bit later he was talking real big about how he was going to kill me. He'd killed bigger and better. And a lil bit later.. I am standing there spelled up, with shield and sword. Defensive.. So he says why dont you put that stuff up, dispell and lay down. (The only way he could kill me). I laughed and wondered if he really thought I was that stupid. Asked out loud if he did think I was stupid enough to lay down and let him rape me. Oops.. I said rape. I get a warning like 5 seconds later. Sexual vulgarity right there. Its really easy to forget what your saying when you have idiots like that around you.

Back to Scint's warnings.. The other 3 he got were for OOC or disruptive behavior. How many of you have NOT been OOC.. Most of us more times than we can count. And the disruptive behavior.. I am guessing one was for the Uncap incident they mentioned. I can see how he would like to express his thoughts on the issue, and if he was locked out of the msg boards at that time.. How else would he do it. It was an inventive way to announce his position. I bet half the people who saw him didn't have a clue.

To me those 7 warnings look feeble. maybe they aren't and I am sure Simu might think them some of the biggest problems they have.

Now look at how long he was there. 07/31/1999 - 06/19/2001 Almost a full 3 years between those warnings. And remember how much he said he played.. 8-12 hours a day. I am pretty sure I saw him put in some longer days power hunting. 3 years playing a game more than most people spend sleeping or working at their job. He said he spent over 3000 hours.. Very possible. Take 3 years at 8 hours a day.. 8760 hours. I play something like 2-6 hours a day depending on my day and schedule.. Been here less than 2 years. Maybe 2000 hours total, if that much. I have gotten at least 4-5 warnings I can think of. Not to count warnings I inherited from accounts I was given. I think we all know a few people with more than 12 warnings. They are still here. Some of their warnings were for worse than what Scint did. Yet you get stuck on how he has more warnings than you.. So he deserves to be locked out. What happens when some newbie with no warnings comes after you saying you have 2 warnings.. thats more than him/her and you should be locked out. reg

I think most persons would now agree, that at least in principle, some sort of deal had been structured between Simutronics, and Scintillion.

Now, the question becomes...
Allegedly, Scintillion told all his friends that he didn't mean it, and had to do the Apology website to get back in.

If he told all his friends - who were they? I think its obvious that 2 of his biggest supporters didn't know - Kranar and Edgeleaf.

He certainly didn't say on the website "I'm sorry", then "Ha - no I'm not" (at least initially).

So, who were these "friends"?

If that question can't be answered adequately, then it is POSSIBLE (not definate), that Simutronics did in fact back out of the deal and misled Scintillion.

Thus, resulting in Scintillion's frustration to retract his earlier remarks on the Apology website.

Anyway - it probably doesn't really matter, because in the final analysis, Simutronics isn't going to let him back in. reg

Both Edgeleaf and I knew that the apology was a phony attempt to get back into the game since day one.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

When you use vulgarity the first time or so, you just get that soap thingie. It isn't an official warning, it's just a soap thingie. I would suggest that it's possible Scint has had MANY occurences of vulgarity in order to get so many warnings. Warnings aren't given out every time you utter a vulgarity. But if those soap things are logged in the player's file and someone reports about it 3 months alter, the GM is gonna see this guy has a habit of it, and he's gonna get a warning.

I think it's safe to say that it takes quite a few "mistakes" before someone is called on one of them.

On the other hand, there ARE exceptions, and I am also sure it's safe to say that some people are treated unfairly.

But having interacted with Scint in the game (not recently) I would suggest also that he has a record of troublemaking to one extent of the other, and that record is what got him into trouble - not just the official warnings.

Roberta
reg

Seems pretty simple to me.

'lood

reg

I'ma miss ya bud, glad i got to meet you at least once. Keep it real dawg.

-John

------------------
AIM: XoSPrEEoX
EMail: DJSphinx@eternalbeats.net
---------------------
www.eternalbeats.net
www.eraver.net

[This message has been edited by GOD (edited 08-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by GOD (edited 08-04-2001).] reg

Thank you to all who showed interest in this issue. Thank you to those who supported, or totally hated me. Thank you to those who thought I was a good friend, and thank you to those who thought I was a lying, back-stabbing snake. I say thank you again for making the past 3 years an enjoyable experience...

Most of all, thank you to Eric Latham and David Whatley (GMs Solomon and Bardon) for turning out to be exactly what I expected you to be. Thank you for locking me out of GemStone III for good, as well as tracing the I.P. addresses of the several other accounts that I was controlling. Thank you for the deceit, the lies, and the most unprofessional customer service to date.

Thank you to God for getting me through the last 3 years of my life...probably the lowest point I've ever been at. Thank you for seeing me through the countless wasted hours in front of this computer screen playing a mindless and degenerating text-based game run by a group of unprofessional misfits who would most likely need written directions and further "staff review" to wipe their own noses.

Jesus, I wish I got paid minimum wage for the amount of hours and energy I put into that stupid game. I am now a firm believer of the old saying that "Everything happens for the best."

A final message for all of those who still play GemStone III: The website says it all. Read the logs, read the letters, read everything. I am through playing the role of the proverbial puppet. I understand that sometimes life gets rough...and let's face it, GemStone III is an escape for all of us in some way. It was for me, for 3 years. I don't need it anymore though...and this entire issue proves that fact. I haven't played GemStone III in weeks, and I feel better than I've felt in a long time. So take a good long look at yourself in the mirror, at your life...at everything. Ask yourself, "Is it worth it?" Don't let GemStone III become any more than a very casual and occasional hobby. Once it becomes more, you might as well sign over your soul to Simutronics, because they own you, like it or not. Don't ever let a fantasy become your reality. It won't always be there. Others have said that the "GemStone III Titanic is just waiting to be sunk." Maybe true, maybe not. I don't see it happening anytime in the near future. Not as long as there are players like I was. The fact remains however, that GemStone III will not be around forever. I seriously doubt that it will be around for the majority of anyone's lifetime who is reading this message. So laugh if you want, but consider what I've said. For those of you with children, I highly advise that you don't let them touch this game. Ever. Finally, good luck in life, and God bless. May you live every day to the fullest, and not in front of a computer screen.

It was a great ride while it lasted, but I'm tired of living my life in a fantasy. It's time to grow up and move on. I suggest you do the same, but it's your life. God bless.

http://www.geocities.com/lordscintillion/Apology.html

Sincere Regards,

~High Lord Scintillion Eckert and player thereof.

[This message has been edited by Scintillion (edited 08-05-2001).] reg

1) I do not support nor do I hate Scintillion.

2) I do not feel Simutronics lied to Scintillion in any way during this whole ugly affair (and yes I did read every part of his website).

3) I think that by describing GS3 as a “mindless and degenerating text-based game”, shows the bitter, childish streak of Scintillion. Please remember, last week this same Scintillion was willing to lie (i.e. set up what he calls a fake apology website) in hopes of being allowed to return to the lands. Now that he has been banned for life, the game all of a sudden becomes mindless? <shakes head>

4)Scintillion the puppet? No remorse or responsibility, just misdirection and excuses.

5) As for Scintillion’s desire for us all to “grow up” and stop living our lives in fantasy, well…thanks but I think I’ll keep my own council on this aspect of my life.

Sorry Scintillion, but your only purpose should be to serve as an example to others.
reg

I learned long, long ago that credibility is essential. Not everyone is going to like you. Not everyone is going to agree with you. But you must always be honest, consistent and forthright. Anything less, and there is no reason for anyone to ever take anything you say seriously again.

(Exception: saracasim and humor to make a point!)

This incident was very unfortunate. Many good people were hurt by that disgusting and childish site. Contemplate the mind of the person who'd do such a thing. The depths of their self-esteem problems can only be imagined. It hints a much darker personal problems, in my own personal opinion.

For our part, we did the most decent thing we could. We helped get the site taken down post-haste (despite the fact that leaving it up would aid in identifying the source). We worked to console those who were hurt, and show them that we cared.

In the end, we never locked-out anyone for making that site. But believe me, I'd had loved to see that happen. People who do these sorts of things tend to get locked out all by themselves anyway. Such antisocial tendencies can seldom be masked in-game for long; and naturally they tend to run quite contrary to policy.

In that sense, it always works out in the end. For the good people who play, we'll keep providing a safe place to have fun and enjoy a rich, living, growing world. It is what I set out to do in the beginning, and fourteen years later, we haven't deviated from this mission. That feels good.

-- David reg

-Pirub reg

1) If they banned Scintillion for warnings, why did they not do it right after he got his last warning? (They do this with everybody)

2) If they did not ban him for the webpage, then why did they have him write an apology for the webpage? (The webpage 'didn't have anything to do with the banning')

3) If Simutronics made him write an apology (for the webpage) to get back into the game, but said it wasn't good enough ('even though the banning had nothing to do with the page') why would they have done it?

4) He 'didn't get banned him for the webpage' but can you explain why a few days after he made it they banned him? (Weeks after he got his last warning)

If you could make an excuse up for Simutronics on these questions I would like to see it.

-Pirub reg

That is exactly why the CEO of Simutronics comes to the Unofficial Message Boards, which has a general attitude of hatred and intolerance for the restrictions put on the Official Boards by the lovely, beautiful, fair, loyal and perfect employees of Simutronics and feels the need to post about how great GemStone III is. It all makes sense. GemStone III and Simutronics are perfect. I'm evil. Enough said.

Want to talk some more about credibility?

ROFLMAO

Long live Simutronics and GemStone III!

~High Lord Scintillion Eckert and player thereof reg

But that is neither here nor there, you posed a few items, so I’ll take a crack at them…

1) If they banned Scintillion for warnings, why did they not do it right after he got his last warning? (They do this with everybody)

My Opinion) The idea that Scintillion had something to do with the website, prompted Simutronics to place his account(s), under review. Based upon his activities within GemStone, they felt he was enough of a disturbance to warrant banning.

2) If they did not ban him for the webpage, then why did they have him write an apology for the webpage? (The webpage 'didn't have anything to do with the banning')

My Opinion) Simutronics believed that Scintillion was indeed the author of the website, a web site that had caused much hurt to many Simutronics customers. So I feel Simutronics believed that soothing the pain of many (which an appology would have done), was worth reinstating a player like Scintillion. So they did as the log said, a "little horse trading".

3) If Simutronics made him write an apology (for the webpage) to get back into the game, but said it wasn't good enough ('even though the banning had nothing to do with the page') why would they have done it?

My Opinion) Simutronics made a deal and Scintillion accepted it. He wrote the apology page, and proceeded to tell his friends he did not mean a word he had written. This was in violation of the agreement (it was stated as such in the logs), and Simutronics wrote Scintillion informing him the deal had been voided by his actions (telling people he in fact was not sorry, and only wrote the page to regain access to the lands).

4) He 'didn't get banned him for the webpage' but can you explain why a few days after he made it they banned him? (Weeks after he got his last warning)

My Opinion) As per question one, the belief he authored the page, prompted Simutronics to place his account in review. His actions within the lands are what got him banned.

Now these are my own speculations, based upon what I have read on these boards as well as Scintillions web page. And I would like to add that not one of my responses should be construed as an excuse for Simutronics, as I feel they were completely in the right on this issue.
reg

Under review? That's a joke! Why didn't they place it under review right after he got his last warning? Why would the webpage have changed anything?

'My Opinion) Simutronics believed that Scintillion was indeed the author of the website, a web site that had caused much hurt to many Simutronics customers. So I feel Simutronics believed that soothing the pain of many (which an appology would have done), was worth reinstating a player like Scintillion. So they did as the log said, a "little horse trading".'

‘They believed’, yes in a court of law it’s ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ not ‘believing’. Wow, it hurt Simutronics customers. Let’s limit freedom of speech outside the game, what a good idea!

'My Opinion) Simutronics made a deal and Scintillion accepted it. He wrote the apology page, and proceeded to tell his friends he did not mean a word he had written. This was in violation of the agreement (it was stated as such in the logs), and Simutronics wrote Scintillion informing him the deal had been voided by his actions (telling people he in fact was not sorry, and only wrote the page to regain access to the lands).'

Obviously if you read the log, Scintillion told them that he did not do it and that he would just take responcibility for it. But it's kinda hard to read the log when you're as stupid as yourself.

My Opinion) As per question one, the belief he authored the page, prompted Simutronics to place his account in review. His actions within the lands are what got him banned.

As my first reply states, that still doesn't cut it. They would have reviewed his status after the last warning. Why would the website even MAKE THEM review it? If they reviewed the status of his account after seeing the webpage then the webpage is once again the direct result of his banning.

-Pirub reg

When Simutronics pressures you with perma-banning i'm sure you would change your opinions the same way. Obviously you have never been in his situation and your opinions are worthless.

-Pirub reg

-- David

reg

reg

Lovingly and apologetically yours,

~High Lord Scintillion Eckert and player thereof
Man of the People

P.S. Pirub, I'd like you to know that in my professional psychological opinion your webpage displays sure signs of very deep and underlying emotional issues and personal problems. Just ask David. reg

Here is what I don't understand, however - In the "thorough investigation" preformed by none other than the very same intellectual giants at Simutronics, why is it that they were not able to obtain the I.P. address(es) of the author or authors of the freak site from Geocities? Had they bothered to read Geocities Terms of Service they would have certainly seen that this course of action would have been possible. The epitome of caring and credibility himself, David Whatley, was proud to say that he and other Simutronics Staff members helped to remove the freak site "post-haste." During this time, why did they not bother to obtain the I.P. address(es) of the author or authors??

I'll tell you why, gentle people. Simutronics Staff would not have been pleased with the results of such a course of action, because they would have indeed seen that I was not responsible for the freak site. Instead, they chose to use circumstantial speculation in order to arrive at the conclusion they CHOSE to arrive at. What they CHOSE to do is make a scapegoat out of someone who they have had a personal vendetta against for quite some time. A person that neither they, nor their personal friends particularly cared for...perhaps even hated. Worried about the emotional damage done to anyone by the contents of the freak site? Pure idiocy. Anyone who believes that for one moment is not only ignorant but needs to take a look at the real world. The only damage that David Whatley or Simutronics Staff was worried about was the potential revenue damage done by persons neglecting to attend future Simutronics gatherings in fear of being made fun of. So, put the blame on the shoulders of someone that most people don't like for one reason or another, lie to them, have them write an apology for something they didn't do, and then don't let them back into GemStone III anyway. Sounds like a good plan to me. The most decent thing you could have done, David? The most decent thing you could do is post a lengthy public apology to me in the Important Announcements folder on the Official Message boards, authored by yourself, and express the deepest regrets for the stupidity and bias you and your staff showed to me, and call it a day. Why the sudden interest in defending your credibility as the CEO of Simutronics on the Unofficial Boards? You suddenly have an interest in interacting with all of the mortals, or is it just that you realize how badly you screwed up, and how unprofessionally you handled this situation and are just trying to smooth it over? I think that someone needs a lesson in how to look credible. Why are the most obvious things overlooked?

~High Lord Scintillion Eckert and player thereof
Guilty until proven innocent
Is this America or Elanthia? reg

Yes, my website makes me look like a child, there you go. My opinions are LESS THAN worthless! It’s ok to be wrong Ellarze.

-Pirub

[This message has been edited by LordKranar (edited 08-06-2001).] reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scintillion:
I think that someone needs a lesson in how to look credible

---

Hmm.....

reg

~High Lord Scintillion Eckert and player thereof reg

-Pirub reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bardon:
[
In that sense, it always works out in the end. For the good people who play, we'll keep providing a safe place to have fun and enjoy a rich, living, growing world. It is what I set out to do in the beginning, and fourteen years later, we haven't deviated from this mission. That feels good.

-- David[/B]

---

David,

I believe you are familiar with my husband and I. You considering this a 'safe' place to play would be rather (and I shall be so bold as to use one of your words) nefarious.

We had asked for months to have a problem resolved with a hacker on your site. Your response came back that it was our accounts (???) doing the hacking. Interestingly enough, Georgetown University seems to think otherwise. Let's think hard now, David, where could that possibly have come from?

As we no longer have accounts, and NEVER EVER desire to have ones again, those little emails trying to soothe us and subtly provoke us into re-establishing accounts seems rather pointless.

Furthermore, if this is disputed by you on this site. Oh goodie, slander and libel here we come. If you doubt me, please talk to Security at Georgetown yourself. Also, please consult with your favorite attorney (who I assume also suggested that you run to your nearest local BBS to proclaim your innocence and make further denigrating comments towards players.)

I am not here to debate an issue, only to speak to the master himself, thus no responses will be answered.

Oh, by the way Buckwheat, rethink things yet?

Iciss

[This message has been edited by Iciss (edited 08-06-2001).] reg

My opinion is simply that two people made the freaks site, Scintillion and Clearity.

Clearity bragged about it to others at first, Dessedemona, Chantara, Edgeleaf, some others. This was when it first came out, basically that both you and her were making this site. So it could very well be that Clearity made the site on her own computer and you two spoke about it over AIM on what to put on it etc etc...

Also it's funny, Zanagan posted the site in the moderator folder and I looked at it, it was only like 2 days old but the first thing that slapped me was "This is so Scintillion and Clearity's site." I spoke to Buckwheet about it and Edgeleaf who also thought the EXACT same thing before anyone else suspected this. Then a couple days later Clearity brags about it, which reinforced my opinion that you two made it.

Well yeah, then I bought into your whole "Hey Kranar, look at the e-mail Lord Six sent me." and then it all went downhill from there, but that's besides the point. Your fingerprints WERE all over that website, yours and Clearity's.

It's unfortunate only you got banned for the site, I'll give you that. But denying you had any part in it does no good. Not that it's doing anymore bad, I think the issue is pretty much wrapped up.

On a final note... since you seemed to be so enthusiastic on giving some moral advice, I thought I'd throw some in of my own.

DON'T EVER LIE TO FRIENDS! Never, don't even think about it. Don't lie about how much you can bench press, how many girl friends you can get in a week, whatever it is just learn to stop that habit.

Honesty, trust, patience and understanding are the best human qualities. Those aspects of who you are should and better come before anything you may want to lie about to make yourself look "cool", because without those aspects, you're nothing.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard

[This message has been edited by LordKranar (edited 08-06-2001).] reg

What I DO have, is a deep seeded respect for authority. When I am visiting their world, I live by their rules. It’s that simple. So if following the rules is your definition of ass kissing, well, then I'm guilty as charged. But I can say this much... I'm still actively playing and enjoying Gemstone.

[This message has been edited by LordKranar (edited 08-06-2001).] reg

In terms of Clearity bragging to anyone about her and I making that webpage? Firstly, if she did that she would be lying. Secondly, she denies saying anything of the sort or having any involvement in the webpage. Thirdly, it's funny that if Clearity and I made the webpage, and all of these supposed rumors were circulating about it, it seems reasonable that Clearity would have been at least questioned about it, if not banned. If my account had enough infractions on it to warrant banning, I know for a fact hers does too. She has more warnings than I do. Very interesting indeed. Finally, what do I have to gain at this late date by denying involvement in the webpage? Given that all of my subsequent accounts are now locked out of GemStone III and I have absolutely no desire to play I just don't see the point of denying it if I did it. But the fact remains that I wasn't responsible in any way, shape, or form. Anyone with a brain knows that, and anyone who says otherwise is intentionally mindless. Anyone stupid enough to listen to third-hand half truths or other people's speculation probably doesn't have enough intelligence to have a legitimate opinion on anything, much less something that they have no proof of. Unfortunately, I see this running rampant among those members of the community who were not blessed with an IQ greater than 3, if you catch my drift. There is not one single person you can speak to that would point blank tell you that I ever told them I had anything to do with writing a freak webpage and be telling the truth.

For the sake of argument, though, let us suppose that Clearity did indeed own the webpage and I gave her ideas for it via AIM. Would that make me responsible? No. If someone suggests that you jump off a bridge and then you do it would that make them responsible for your death? Following your course of logic it would seem reasonable.

Lastly, when I was interrogated about my knowledge on the webpage, which was indeed limited, had I known the verifiable author I would have told Simutronics who it was, no question. Regardless of who it was.

All told, the only thing anyone who has spoken up against me has to go by is speculation - pure and simple.

~High Lord Scintillion Eckert and player thereof reg

Maybe I just don't understand. Having an IQ of only 3 makes that sort of thing very difficult, you know. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
If you hate GemStone and all of us idiotic players so much, why are you still here?

---

Trying to set the record straight I assume.

::shrug::

(Looking at things under the most favorable light from Scintillion's perspective....)

Similar to the "confessions" of persons during the Vietnam War - where they held guns to the heads of American soldiers and said "Confess to transgressions against the Republic of Vietnam or die" - they confessed.

If I was banned for creating a website that I had no involvement in, then held hostage and told to apologize or stay banned, then the deal fell apart - I certainly would attempt to set things straight.

Who's telling the truth? Only Simutronics, and Scintillion truly know. reg

Having been prominently featured on the site in question, I certainly wasn't sorry to see it go. I thought I'd left that sort of thing behind in junior high, 20 years ago

I'm not even going to pretend I know who did it. I don't. I thought the apology site sans recent editions lacked any attempt at sincerity, but since I don't think that someone who thought that posting that sort of stuff would have the emotional capacity for sincere apology, I wasn't surprised.

What continues to amuse me (besides the attempt to link the alleged crucifixion of Scintillion with the Vietnam War POWs confessions) is the endless accusations by those who have supposedly evolved and moved on that those of us who play don't have a life. Believe it or not, it is possible to have a good job, good friends, other interests, AND play GS, even if you're fat (gasp). Imagine that. Plus, I have plenty of friends whose playing days are over, and they don't have to continually revisit their past pastime, nor do they feel the need to denigrate those who do play.

Keep hurling your slings and arrows and creatively worded photo captions. At the end of the day, I know which one of us will feel better.

Ylena
(checking in) reg

On behalf of those who have met you and have been delighted by your presence, I personally salute the Queen of Fashion - and don't let anyone try to convince you that supersized isn't beautiful.

-Roberta, the full-figured petite who can recognize and appreciate beauty in our more voluptuous compadres. reg

I've been reading your posts here for awhile.. just never got off my well-fed posterior and created an account to reply to anything.

I'd go play Inferno with you, too, if that whole build thing wasn't so damned intimidating. I have yet to ever figure it out.

Elizabeth
(lives by KISS) reg

Would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see you there!

bestatte@home.com

Bertsie
reg

I can answer a couple easy ones tho...

GeoCities denied our requests for IP information.

Linking IP addresses of accounts for lockout is SOP for game services.

Oh, by the way, if you post some cryptic message about George Town University and expect me to know what the diddly you are talking about..... think again. <grin>

-- David

reg

And by the way, Geocities denied your IP address requests so you go and ban a person on pure speculation. ‘The typing looks similar’, ‘They talk similar’. We all know two people can’t obviously talk the same way.

-Pirub reg

Your master plan backfired in a big way. But, what do you expect when you lie to everybody?

Its not like you can't come back anyway, just not as Scint. Anybody with an IQ above 3 and who is smarter than a dolphin , in your position, could be playing right now and no one would be the wiser.

But the problem with that plan is you will no longer be able to play Scint. Which is the main problem, isn't it?

Scint is such a big part of who YOU are, a part of you is lost with him.

See, the problem with your big plan was that you commited the deadly sin of getting to swept up in everything.

While YOU were trying to beat IT, IT was beating you.

So, what now? I'll cast a few pearls here...

fess up to everything, be a man and admit to whatever, if anything, you did. Everything, no matter how small. Whatever you know about the situation.

or

forget about posting, take down the other website, fade into the background. Come back as another character, play the game as it was meant to be played, have some fun, and try not to get into trouble this time.

any other alternative and your just wasting time, digging yourself a bigger hole.

'lood reg

Scintillion, you've made repeated references to individuals of IQ not higher than 3, all the while giving wheelbarrows filled with advice about IP addresses. To expound on what Bardon stated, no reputable ISP will reveal the owner of a dynamic or static IP address at any time unless you present to them a search warrant or flash the badge of an officer of the law. It's baffling that someone would have to explain this to you, so I suppose the well founded conclusion is that you're a whole lot of talk and a little light on thought. While I'm certainly an understanding person, and perfectly aware that mistakes can be made, attitude goes a long way. Yours rivals a seven year old boy who has been sent to his room, and as a result I have little patience for your completely unfounded remarks regarding technology and internet service providers.

If you would like to respond to this and have a point to make, I request that you go crazy and read a book about the topic which you so vehemently rant. Until then, I continue to read your posts with the mental image of a drunken bum raving on and on with pieces of food flying from his mouth. reg

-Pirub reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ylena:
What continues to amuse me (besides the attempt to link the alleged crucifixion of Scintillion with the Vietnam War POWs confessions...

---

Dang. Obviously you missed my Hitler reference earlier on the issue.

The dramatic sometimes is the best thing to illustrate a point.

Lets see...

Hitler and the Jewish Holocaust <check>
Vietnam persecution of American POWs <check>

You'll just have to wait to see whats next. reg

quote:

---

The dramatic sometimes is the best thing to illustrate a point.

---

Or the quickest way to get dismissed, even if you make a sound point.

'lood reg

'Hitler and the Jewish Holocaust <check>'
'Vietnam persecution of American POWs <check>'
Can we add..
Murder of humans in Waco <check>
Murder of humans in Ruby Ridge <check>
Murder of children and woman in korean war <check>

-Pirub

[This message has been edited by Pirub9 (edited 08-06-2001).] reg

In fact, Scintillion had 0 right by the constitution to post slanderous remarks on a private server owned and operated by geocities. No right at all.

'lood reg

All this free speech "debate" is so tired... been hearing this for the last fourteen years of making these games... and years before that when I was just a customer of such games (like Kesmai titles).

<Bardon saunters up to the podium for the umpth time in this creaky old debate>

People really love their "freedom of speech" thing (me included); but you seldom see anyone bounce up and down about it until you get involved in online flame-wars. Even before the Internet, my friends... hell this was a subject of debate during the days of BBSs!

But even then, most people had no clue what they were even talking about. My favorite is when people start yelling about a lill' ol document called the Constitution. I guess it's time to also point out that the Constitution does not have anything to say about Freedom of Speech. I know civics class was boring, but if you are going to wave the American Flag around you might as well know that you are referring to an entirely different document called the Bill of Rights of 1789 which lists the first 12 articles of amendment to the Constitution.

I'm not sure how many people have read it, actually. I have. For everyone's benefit, Amendment I reads:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

And, in fact, Congress has not passed any such laws. And the Supreme Court has done its job to "clarify" (by defining tons of exceptions and minutia) what the limits of 'freedom of speech' are.

In any case, you'll note that Amendment I has nothing to do with what a private party, such as GeoCities, does with their own servers.

<Bardon rolls up his copy of the Bill of Rights and sits back down>

-- David

reg

Now he's trying to cover up the constitution!

Pirub wins by default...

'lood
reg

-Pirub

[This message has been edited by Pirub9 (edited 08-07-2001).] reg

So my argument doesn't fall apart... reg

You can speed for years and not get caught. Just as a site could be up for weeks without them noticing.

'lood
of course, any person with an IQ above 3 should already know that... reg

-- David
(Who is only out to promote his company)

*wink*

reg

quote:

---

Geocities doesn't have the time nor resources to thouroughly check each and every site it hosts. Most of the time it isn't until someone points the site out that it is taken down.

---

That's Geocities fault, and it has nothing to do with Simutronics and provides no need for them to take Geocities rules into their own hand.

quote:

---

A side note. Hosting a site on geocities is a privilage given to you by geocities, much like driving a car. You misuse that privilage, and it gets taken away from you.

---

First of all it’s privilege not privilage, it would truly help your flawed argument.
Nice analogy, too bad it doesn't support your prior comments. If you were to get your license revoked by the DMV and you were on social security, your social security would not be revoked also. The page got revoked by Geocities but Scintillion also got banned from Simutronics for it.
From now on, I will not acknowledge Bardon until he answers real questions.

-Pirub

[This message has been edited by Pirub9 (edited 08-07-2001).] reg

and i wont acknowledge you until you start posting something worth reading and actually have sound reasoning to back up your arguments...

Oh, and we were arguing about constitutional rights to post on geocities, simutronics has nothing to do with that.

Quit trying to skirt to a diferent topic, i know your losing this debate, its ok, it happens...

'lood
who feels for those not blessed with sound reasoning.

reg

~M~ reg

Manodith reg

Grab control Whatley. Take what is yours and stop letting it driven into the ground by losers who would rather control a few kid's lives. Wake up and smell the Joe.

Fire some of those people on your staff that spend so much time online without really doing anything productive.

Andraste is on for long periods of time just playing god and not helping make the place fun for all. There are other GM's just like her. Carraig, Krylan, Aeryk, Kennesaw to name a few more.

Fire these people and I bet you the game will get better instead of worse. reg

What if I had given the person who made the site permission to put it on one of my servers?

What would Simu have done about that?

Not that I like sites like that, it's just a what if situation.

Buckwheet
Who currently has to TOS for his webhosting, other then it has to be GS related. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by kelood:
Or the quickest way to get dismissed, even if you make a sound point.

'lood

---

Only by people that I don't care about their opinion in the first place.

reg

-- David
reg

-John...ding dong ditch champion!

------------------
AIM: XoSPrEEoX
EMail: DJSphinx@eternalbeats.net
---------------------
www.eternalbeats.net
www.eraver.net reg

[This message has been edited by Rusval (edited 08-07-2001).] reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by GS3Aura:
I think if Bardon got more involved in the game it would be great. Take away all the serious mind screwing GM's like Andraste off the staff and hire more people like himself and it would be a really neat place to be creative. Light hearted and less seriousness good natured fun should rule the day.

Grab control Whatley. Take what is yours and stop letting it driven into the ground by losers who would rather control a few kid's lives. Wake up and smell the Joe.

Fire some of those people on your staff that spend so much time online without really doing anything productive.

Andraste is on for long periods of time just playing god and not helping make the place fun for all. There are other GM's just like her. Carraig, Krylan, Aeryk, Kennesaw to name a few more.

Fire these people and I bet you the game will get better instead of worse.

---

Mind-screwing, heh. I guess that explains the posts I've seen and emails I've received from players... and yes, that includes many who didn't have like being warned or locked out... saying they appreciated the fact that I was direct with them, no-nonsense, spoke to them like adults, treated them fairly, and been honest. I've also given a lot of people second chances, only to be told later by other GMs and SGMs that I could have warned them or locked them out.

For many people, having that chance was a pivotal turning point for them and their existance in GemStone III. I'm friends/friendly with a good many of them to this day.

Every GM has had their share of slings and arrows flung at them at one time or another. I know I've certainly made an effort to change the harsh way I learned to handle situations back in the days when I was trained by Aephir and watching Sayzor and Ophion. I moved on to work with Varevice, Aelsidhe, Krash, Kennesaw and Krilcan, all of whom are wonderfully creative, caring, and inspirational people that have been supportative of my growth, leading to a promotion last year.

In large part, what shows this best is the stack of thank you posts and emails logged to me, the large number of players who defend me from groundless attacks, and the assists logged by those who wish to apologize for their behavior towards me. Matter of fact, the other week, 5 players assisted to apologize over a 48 hour period -- one of them for something that happened more than a year ago, having recently had the chance to speak to me and get to know me better. If anything, I frequently hear that I am very accessible to players and more than willing to meet and chat with them.

As for spending long hours doing nothing but playing God and not contributing to making this place fun, wow, I didn't know you had a web cam installed in my house! I'm going to have to stop sitting naked in front of my computer now!

Actually, I'm down from over 400 hours back several months ago to around 300 hours now. I really don't spend a lot of time just sitting around, as you grandiously imagine, what with scripting, coordinating a "department" staff of about 20 people, running a minimum of 3 events a month (and that includes the prep work that goes along with it), developing two major story lines, working with other GMs on festivals and quests, assisting Hosts, answering refferals and reports, painting a couple of areas... and that's just a quick run down without pulling up my checklist! Roberta knows what I'm talking about ;)

Oh, and yes, sometimes while Andraste is logged in, I am doing an event (both impromptu and planned) in one platform or another of the game, OR ::gasp:: I am actually PLAYING the game for atleast about 100 of those hours a month!

Thanks for being concerned, though, about how I spend my hours, Aura. I suspect that if I wasn't pulling my weight, contributing to the game environment, or performing up to snuff, I would be the first to know about it ;)

As my antipenulitimate comment, I'd like to thank David for posting here and serving as an inspiration to take a risk and share my voice here.

Oh, and one final thing... I have a great sense of humor and light-heartedness, and use it, when appropriate. Sometimes that's in a Consultation Lounge... sometimes it's not.

--A. reg

-- David
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
Someone has webcam pics of Andraste naked? Whoa!

and

Hey Andraste, wazzzup!

-- David

---

Just remember, NOI, whatever you make selling those photos you get from Aura, I get 10%!

Howdy David, always a pleasure!

Oh, and I forgot to thank a couple of important people... Kranar for being a very genuine and concerned person, and assuring me this would be a safe place for me to post. And to Buckwheet, for not only setting up and supporting these Boards for you... but for being willing to create a bridge. He knows what I mean.

--A. reg

Oh my.

I simply do not know how to reply to that. ::Shiver:: Well since you are here Andraste, I have merely only have ever had two encounters with you and both of the problems were solved rather simply. One I did not like, and the second came out just fine (other characters). Although, if I could talk Buckwheet (I know Edge has already) I was just curious maybe if you would comment on Edge's banning he posted here. Seems to me in a sense he may have gotten the wrong end of the stick on that one (not saying he is a perfect little angel). I was just a little curious why?

Also I would personally like to welcome you to the Player's corner and thank you for commenting. I know some people, including myself have posted and your name may have been mentioned in a situation and it is great finally hearing from some GM's including yourself.

Lord Deprav
Not being a suck-up, just intrigued. reg

Someone said something semi-nice about Andraste! SUCK UP!

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ellarze:
let’s see…within the realms of Gemstone I do not know a single GM on a personal basis (how many can claim the same?)

---

<delurk>
Ooh, ooh, me! Although a few of them may know a character or three of mine. Never been to a Con, Simu- or Vegas-, never been to a gather, never even glanced at another GS player across the street. I wish I could say I've never been pulled into the consultation lounge, but I can't. If I walked up to a GM and said "Hey, what's up, lemme buy ya a beer!", they would probably begin edging away.

No GM-buddies or enemies here.

[This message has been edited by Specto (edited 08-08-2001).] reg

It is good to see you here and posting.

I think that there are several of us quiet posters who appreciate your sense of humor and your ability to see beyond some of the vacuum IQ posters. You add a lot to the worth of these boards. It is good to get a balanced perspective.

Aerienne reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lord Deprav:
::covers mouth and eyes::

Oh my.

I simply do not know how to reply to that. ::Shiver:: Well since you are here Andraste, I have merely only have ever had two encounters with you and both of the problems were solved rather simply. One I did not like, and the second came out just fine (other characters). Although, if I could talk Buckwheet (I know Edge has already) I was just curious maybe if you would comment on Edge's banning he posted here. Seems to me in a sense he may have gotten the wrong end of the stick on that one (not saying he is a perfect little angel). I was just a little curious why?

Also I would personally like to welcome you to the Player's corner and thank you for commenting. I know some people, including myself have posted and your name may have been mentioned in a situation and it is great finally hearing from some GM's including yourself.

Lord Deprav
Not being a suck-up, just intrigued.

---

Thanks for the welcome, Deprav, and don't mind NOI, who I will bolt later ;)

I guess I'm testing the waters... depending on the responses I get, perhaps others will follow me here.

Like me, many of the GMs are readers here, but the idea of posting and serving as a target is very unappealing. The attacks are often more personal and directed at the persona behind the GM facade, than it is directed at the behavior, situation, issue, etc.

Speaking for myself, I don't want to be responsible for bringing the level of posts down from informative and constructive to base and childish/churlish just by having a presence on these boards.

It would defeat what I understand to be Buckwheet's intent and spirit, and I respect that.

As for commenting about situations that happen within the game and with players...

Uh uh. And not just because of the NDA, but because it wouldn't be professional, nor does it show any respect for Edgeleaf. And even if he wanted to dialog about it openly, see reasons above.

Now, if Edgeleaf wanted to meet with me in private to discuss his concerns about me and/or situations, that I would be willing to do.

--A.
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
OH MY GOD!

Someone said something semi-nice about Andraste! SUCK UP!

---

Believe me...they've got a long long long long long long long

.....

whatever...

way to go to catch you. reg

As for my banning. It's in the past. But, in my eyes was totally wronged. I think I am more sore at Melissa for the non-responsive way she handles her emails nowadays. Maybe we can get her to comment on that?

The thread with the log in it was removed for all the flames I had in it. I got pretty angry at Kranar for it and had words, but I am emotional kinda guy. Blow up first, then sort it out later. But I will stand behind his decision on that matter.

edge

reg

Well.

I've had my issues with assorted GMs, Andraste included (even though I posted in the other folder that I slept with her. It's true, I have a log!!!)

But lemme tell ya. It takes large and substantial cojones (okay to say that here Bucky?) for a GM whose name is trashed all over these boards to come out to the front lines and introduce herself. Kudos to you Andraste, you get a big thumbs up for that from me, and probably from most of the people here.

Somewhere around here you posted that I'd understand some of the things you do as a GM. I'm gonna open a topic (can I do that Bucky?) just about what GMs do. Any GM who reads through this BBS is welcome to add details (or not), or any little something they think would be fun to hear about. Got an anecdote? Post it there. It'll be for GMs only and hopefully will be limited to posting by authorized sucker-uppers like me. (can you do that Bucky?)

Bertsie

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rusval:
Now that yer here andraste, i gots a bone ta pick bout my recent lockout, as in why was i locked out..smirk. All i did was kill oogum from hiding as he did to me and wham i hit a cell, the worst of it was the reason oogum did it was against policy. He killed me fer killin someone else a bit back, unless ive misread policy the 35 times ive read it, ya cant hop right into others conflicts, im thinking i got the short end of the stick, if thats the expression fer it, ANy input'd be good, as to any underlieing reasons i was lockouted fer da month.
RUSVAL
~Stalkee of andraste

---

Okay - I'm looking at the sequence of events. You killed someone else "a bit back" as you said. Then this Oogum person who wasn't involved in that kills you in the recent situation, in retaliation for that past thing. This is where I'd stop and ask, "did Rusval report the PvP since it was unwarranted or not consented?" if the answer is yes, I'd go back and check the report, and investigate this immediately. If the answer is no, I'd move on to the next thing.

You then killed Oogum. Did HE report that HE was killed during unconsented and unwarranted PvP? If the answer is yes, then this would explain your lockout. Since I have no record indicating you had any reports that he was trying to bother you, I can ONLY go by his report. And his report says you killed him without provocation or consent.

This is why it's important to report whenever someone attacks or harrasses you unprovoked, AND when you are about to attack someone. It covers your butt on both sides of the coin.

I don't know if that's what happened, just offering a possible explanation.

Roberta
reg

------------------
Man of many opinions reg

So if someone crosses the line OOC, any IC attempt to deal with it will be considered consent to the behavior. And if the person who was behaving in the OOC manner (meaning, breaking policy), but the other person didn't call him on the policy in a way that the GMs could look into it, and THEN that rule-breaker calls the GMs when the new thing happens, the GMs have no record of there being a prior problem.

When I imploded the kiramon mines a few years back, killing a couple of people, I reported. Twice. Just to make sure they knew I wanted to do it, and to give them a chance to check it out and tell me to find another way to resolve the issue if that's what they felt was appropriate. When I got no response one way or another, I took my chances and went for it. The result was I got a slap on the wrist and a scolding (no official warning), because I had already proven to them in previous incidences that I could be trusted to keep my word and not do it again.

Reporting is what saved me from being locked out. They had a record of my intent.

Roberta
reg

You don't need to hear the stories twice about good, upstanding, dedicated roleplayers who get locked out because some dim witted sissy picked a fight, reported that he's being victimized, gets (justly) murdered, and gets the roleplayer locked out.

This isn't a gripe against GMs or their policy either, but the above behavior does happen. People have IMed me to tell me they would do exactly that before it happened, and they were fairly successful in achieving their goals.

So, when someone picks a fight, it's always best to type, "report <Soandso> has picked a fight by <doing whatever>, and I'm going to maul his skull and spit on the corpse." And then do it, naturally.

I've stuck with that plan and it works pretty well, even when wicked mean sinister Andraste is the GM called to piece together the situation, speaking from experience. reg

Hehe

Rusval reguba.......
~Eater of halfling haters
~stalkee of andraste
~User of too many periods
~Serving a month lockout for not reporting and getting screwed over again.
~Thinking up of new pointless titles so i dont feel left out
~halfling extrodanaire
~Doesnt no when to quit
~continuer of rambling
~Enchanter extrodanaire
~Sittin on last page of halfling fame lists
~Posts a reply and constantly forgets to check for other replies
~attention span of a squirrel
~unable to read long posts

reg

Lord Deprav reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rusval:
Now that yer here andraste, i gots a bone ta pick bout my recent lockout, as in why was i locked out..smirk. All i did was kill oogum from hiding as he did to me and wham i hit a cell, the worst of it was the reason oogum did it was against policy. He killed me fer killin someone else a bit back, unless ive misread policy the 35 times ive read it, ya cant hop right into others conflicts, im thinking i got the short end of the stick, if thats the expression fer it, ANy input'd be good, as to any underlieing reasons i was lockouted fer da month.
RUSVAL
~Stalkee of andraste

---

Well Rusval,

I could jokingly say that, since I'm used to being a target, you're more than welcome to pick that bone with me ::chuckle::

But since I wasn't the one who locked you out and I can't discuss who did or why, there's not much I can offer, aside from an ear to listen.

I'd even be very limited to discuss anything in email, especially if I had nothing to do with the situation.

I'm happy to meet with players who feel aggrieved towards me, in the game, to work things out if that is their desire -- right after I meet with Roberta to work out the terms of her blackmail over that... log... which will be after I negotiate for those nude web cam photos.

Seriously though, if someone wants to chat, they know how to find me.

--A.
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by GS3Aura:
I think if Bardon got more involved in the game it would be great. Take away all the serious mind screwing GM's like Andraste off the staff and hire more people like himself and it would be a really neat place to be creative. Light hearted and less seriousness good natured fun should rule the day.

Grab control Whatley. Take what is yours and stop letting it driven into the ground by losers who would rather control a few kid's lives. Wake up and smell the Joe.

Fire some of those people on your staff that spend so much time online without really doing anything productive.

Andraste is on for long periods of time just playing god and not helping make the place fun for all. There are other GM's just like her. Carraig, Krylan, Aeryk, Kennesaw to name a few more.

Fire these people and I bet you the game will get better instead of worse.

---

Andraste is one of those people others seem to love or hate. Not sure where you got the idea she doesn't do anything to help the game. She does room painting, runs merchants doing alterations, runs the whole wedding system and probably tons of stuff I haven't heard about.

She's also stuck being one of the people doing enforcement. It's a sucky job and I bet she would rather be doing the fun stuff. I know if I was a gm I wouldn't want to waste my time having to talk to players about saying bad words or killing Billy. I'd want to be doing fun stuff instead. But someone has to do those things and she takes the heat for it.

I'm not saying she's like the best gm in the game or nothing. Just that she takes a lot of heat for crap when she's just doing her job.

Snook reg

GMs have been called in when I have done this. But, when I say. They consented. Usually it is over with.

You can solve OOC things IC. You also can solve 95% of your problems IC. I only ran into the report when it's not going your way, when I went to the isle. Seems all the elders back then was the biggest cry babies. I will not name names.

I also think that if a GM is not called into a conflict. They should not get involved. That was my beef with you Andraste.

Gemstone is about killing for most of the players. You gotta kill to learn unless you are a empath. So conflicts will always occur in a game that has violence as the main attraction in the lands.

I will stop now before I start screaming about Disneyfication in a violent game.

edge

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Manodith:
Ive had some issues with Andraste but the thing I always liked most about her was her willingness to talk. Any GM who will spend the extra 5 mins to speak about what I did wrong or just gimme a little extra reminder before warning or banning is the GM we need more of.

---

My RL brother's experience was the complete opposite. It was "poofed in, you are getting a warning, read policy, someone will be with you after you read policy, and poofed out".

The entire conversation (if you can call it that) lasted perhaps 5 seconds in total. reg

The entire conversation (if you can call it that) lasted perhaps 5 seconds in total.>>

If you do something really dumbass then of course thats gonna happen you negated to mention what your brother did. I also have to agree with Edge is a GM isn't called and there is a conflict please guys don't get involved this is our world your only here to run it :-).

PS. Kranar or Buckwheet if you could close this topic I think its getting just a bit off topic.

[This message has been edited by Manodith (edited 08-09-2001).] reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Manodith:
If you do something really dumbass then of course thats gonna happen you negated to mention what your brother did.

---

You are correct. I did intentionally leave out what happened because it was not applicable to your remark of "Andraste's willingness to talk", etc.

There was no "willingness to talk" and independent of the situation, this is an example contrary to your comment.

Regardless of the total non-applicability of your request, Manodith, I will give you the highlights.

He was a new player. He had his account open for less than a week. After literally years of me convincing him to give Gemstone a try, he finally does - and gets totally blown off.

And I'd like to mention, he had done the EXACT same thing that I did when I first started playing.

All that happened to me was the GM educating me to not do such things and I was on my way. Courteous, informative, No warnings, no permanent blemish on my record, no condescending attitude, etc.

After this situation, he promptly canceled his account and told me that "paying to be treated like a complete asshole was not something that he needed to do at this point in his life".

Hard to educate/reform people, when they get so blown off that they leave never to return.

[This message has been edited by Manodith (edited 08-10-2001).] reg

The CE GMs (hosts, etc.) go through extensive training and checks to get that position. Its so extensive that it can take quite a long time to make ot to GMship.

This is why its hard to believe the situation wasn't more complex than that. But, it can happen. Always worth going back and seeing how things are really going.

"Your assist may be monitored for quality control."

-- David
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bardon:
Obviously that's not the approach we want to take. Clearly, without knowing what happened exactly it is impossible to comment on something like that. GMs have a lot of lattitude, but their goals are intended to be to keep customers.

The CE GMs (hosts, etc.) go through extensive training and checks to get that position. Its so extensive that it can take quite a long time to make ot to GMship.

This is why its hard to believe the situation wasn't more complex than that. But, it can happen. Always worth going back and seeing how things are really going.

"Your assist may be monitored for quality control."

-- David

---

Agreed. Not going to be able to salvage him as a player though. He's still somewhat mad at me about the deal.

He was in town visiting me on vacation, so I got to see how the situation was handled since he was using one my networked computers upstairs. He yelled downstairs "Whats this consultation lounge thing?".

[However, I would like to add - that while I disagree how my brother was treated, I have always been treated in an appropriate manner by GM Andraste. I don't know if GM Andraste was spread too thin at the moment, and just didn't have time - but how the deal went down did run off a new customer]

But, its not a total loss. Still got me, my other brother, and my brother-in-law playing (and whomever else I can recruit).

[This message has been edited by Magister (edited 08-09-2001).] reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Magister:
My RL brother's experience was the complete opposite. It was "poofed in, you are getting a warning, read policy, someone will be with you after you read policy, and poofed out".

The entire conversation (if you can call it that) lasted perhaps 5 seconds in total.

---

Magister, I'm willing to bet that was, not as you have stated, the entire extent of his complete interaction with me or other GMs, and here is why:

It is standard procedure to generally consult someone who is reported or seen violating policy and set them up to read policy first BEFORE any discussion with a GM happens. Of course, there are always exceptions, depending on the situation.

If the situation is pretty much cut and dried, they can be pulled to a Lounge and told via a [SEND] to read policy, and someone will be with them when they are done.

If the situation is pretty much cut and dried, they can be pulled to a Lounge, a GM will pop in, set them up to read policy, tell them someone will be with them when they are done reading, then leave them to read.

They can be pulled to a Lounge, and if the situation isn't cut and dried, the GM might remain to speak to them, getting more information to assist them in making a decision about the situation, then warn them and/or have them read policy, LEAVING them to read it alone, and returning when they are done.

The common factor here is... policy is something players are set up to read in the Lounge -- alone.

There are, of course, times when option two isn't always possible, and option one is used... and that varies from GMs free to handle the situation, being the only GM there to handle it, the GM has a priority situation to resolve first, multiple parties in a situation being consulted, warned, and set up to read policy, etc., not to mention other game emergencies, the fact that they might be on duty, and so on.

Let me give you a scenario...

Player A didn't read policy when he first entered the game, but agreed to it anyways (which you do every time you log in hence). He gets reported or is caught violating policy. He doesn't know that what he did was wrong. He's pulled to a lounge, the GM goes to meet him, he begins to argue his case, the GM tries to explain why he is there, the player is getting angry and defensive, he might even begin to get abusive and frustrated. The GM sets the player up to read policy and there in black and white is the rule he broke. NOW the GM can return, and discuss the situation with the player, instead of embarassing the player further, making it necessary to apologize for his behavior towards staff and his lack of understanding about rules he'd already agreed to abide by.

Why would we do something that sets up a situation so (new) players risk discomfort and/or a lockout for their attitude and language in the Lounge, trapped by their anger? Isn't it better that they have a little bit of time to cool off and become informed, then be able to discuss the situation reasonably and adultly with staff?

Also, times have changed since you were young, policy is changing next week, and more assertive enforcement of policy has been necessitated with the growth of community.

Knowing this, as I would hope you do, having been a player for some time, perhaps it would have benefited him if you were to sit down and give him an orientation to the game... as well as to explain to him what kinds of situations to avoid and how to seek out help when they happen.

--A.

[This message has been edited by GMAndraste (edited 08-09-2001).] reg

Basically, what had happened was a friend of mine had decided to get into my account, he then thought it would be a fun plan to make a whole lot of obscene names. Well, he got into conflict with Andraste, and made an especially obscene charecter name with the first name being Andrasteisa and well, I'm sure you all know the plethora of things that could come in the second line so I'll let you use your imagination.

Basically, I logged in the next day and found myself in a cell. I reported, asking why exactly I was in the cell, and was pulled to a lounge, where Andraste explained the entire situation to me, told me to change my password, and let me go.

Now I'd like you to all imagine what she COULD have done had she been one of those "power hungry, crazed lunatic" GM's(That on a side not I hear a lot about, but never actually have seen.) That night could have very well been the end of my account. Since then, every encounter I've had with her, she has proven to be the most fair GM who is always willing to give people another chance.

END RAMBLING

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US

!!!MOVE ALL 'ZIG' FOR GREAT JUSTICE!!!

Grhim's player,

Chris reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by GMAndraste:
Magister, I'm willing to bet that was, not as you have stated, the entire extent of his complete interaction with me

---

The relevant information was as I stated.

quote:

---

Originally posted by GMAndraste:
There are, of course, times when option two isn't always possible, and option one is used... and that varies from GMs free to handle the situation, being the only GM there to handle it, the GM has a priority situation to resolve first, multiple parties in a situation being consulted, warned, and set up to read policy, etc., not to mention other game emergencies, the fact that they might be on duty, and so on.

---

I would assume this was the situation that occured for my brother. I attempted to explain this to him - but being a new player, patience was not one of his strongest attributes.

quote:

---

Originally posted by GMAndraste:
Also, times have changed since you were young, policy is changing next week, and more assertive enforcement of policy has been necessitated with the growth of community.

---

Yup, times have changed quite a bit. Some good, some bad.

It is hard to keep track of all the finer nuances though nowadays as to what is and isn't acceptable.

Being a GM, you are more likely to know what action gets what penalty/reward. After all, you deal with it on a daily basis.

As a player, its much harder to stay abreast of the finer aspects - as they are a constantly changing matter. Regardless of how main stream you attempt to be - if you play long enough, eventually you'll find yourself at an "edge of acceptability", and may not even know that you are there.

quote:

---

Originally posted by GMAndraste:
Knowing this, as I would hope you do, having been a player for some time, perhaps it would have benefited him if you were to sit down and give him an orientation to the game... as well as to explain to him what kinds of situations to avoid and how to seek out help when they happen.

---

Actually, I did discuss to get him up to speed to the best of my ability - and this particular issue was one that I told him would potentially be somewhat controversial, but something that he could roleplay through.

He modeled himself after a couple other persons that currently exist in game - and, I really didn't think he'd get in trouble.

All we had to go on was my prior experience - and what I had done when I first started playing was significantly more questionable and I got off with just a consultation.

Regardless, water under the bridge. And as I have said, my personal experiences with you have been handeled appropriately. reg

In a node far away from town, populated only by hunters of the nearby area, there once was a wizard/empath multiaccounting duo that had discovered that RP is optional and the GS3 is really a big video game with crappy pictures. I had no affection for this fantastic couple.

One day, the empath (who commonly vultured anything that moved and had wounds, sort of a sick medical fetish, I suppose) asked if anyone wanted healing. I (hidden at the time) said that I had a wound but he had best keep his hands off me if he valued his life. A few moments later, I engaged in pleasant conversation with another adventurer, when the empath struck out of nowhere and molested my leg. The empath lived for another 2 seconds, which is precisely the length of time it took for me to process what had happened and type "prep 616" and "cast at (empath)". At this point, the wizard (lying on the floor soaking experience) sprang into action and Ewaved me from hiding half a dozen times (much to the Ewaved annoyance of the other 10 people there) and tried, vainly, to boil me. Suddenly all three of us poofed away to the consultation lounge to meet Andraste.

Initially I thought I was done for. I had heard the rumors, of course. I let the fabulous empath/wizard dig themselves a grave, then mentioned to Andraste that I had made it perfectly clear that I would kill the empath should he touch me. Andraste apparently verified my claim, then gave the wizard/empath a rather stern talking to, shook a finger at me, gave me a wink (I swear it's the truth, almost!) and sent us all on our way, provided that we play like nice boys and empath/wizard experience sponges.

And that, dear reader, is what I would call a rather level headed outcome to the situation. reg

Anyway, got side tracked. My point is, we need more Andraste's! GM's that treat you like a respected customer, that's how it's suppose to be. And fire these GM's people are rapidly complaining about. I don't see any reasoning in keeping them around so they can get off on banning/harassing customers until they finally get tossed out. <shrug> reg

And everytime I talk to a GM, all I get is BS. My situation isnt resolved to my satisfaction. They say they will look into it. Do they? Who knows. I don't, cause they won't say if any punishment was given to someone. They might get embarrised if their punishment is told..

It looks like its past time for me to leave. I just havent been able to make myself do it yet. Someday soon, hopefully I will be gone. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by AestheticDeath:
And everytime I talk to a GM, all I get is BS. My situation isnt resolved to my satisfaction. They say they will look into it. Do they? Who knows. I don't, cause they won't say if any punishment was given to someone. They might get embarrised if their punishment is told..

---

Just a thought, not meant to be a flame, but perhaps if everytime you are coming into contact with a GM, and aren't...having things go your way, perhaps the problem does not lie in the GM's, but in you. Again, not meant as a flame, but most of the GM's here are fair, in fact I can name only two that aren't, and I've had my fair share of dealings with GM's.

On Mahegh, I've had a few dealings with him, each time I was treated fairly. Again, I've only had a problem with perhaps two GM's, and I won't be posting their names so they can be slandered.

Grhim's player,

Chris reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by AestheticDeath:
...I see and hear what she tells me. And I dont usually like it.

---

Well, yes, we get that response from people sometimes, mostly because they're in a Consultation Lounge to discuss why they were violating policy and they aren't happy about it.

quote:

---

I dont know the reason she says what she says, or why she says it the way she does.

---

Umm.... that's why people often read policy when they are in the Consultation Lounge, OR are asked what is going on and why the violated policy, AND then we explain how their actions got them in trouble. Generally they don't leave until they've agreed to abide by the policy and/or they have no further questions.

quote:

---

But it always has a way as coming off rudely. Abrupt and suggesting that she is THE GOD.

---

What you might see as rude and abrupt others know to be fairness, direct, adult, refusing to be baited, refusing to be diverted into dealing with other issues than the situation at hand, or refusal to talk about issues (such as situations with other players) that have nothing to do directly with the reason a player is in a CL.

And I know that I'm quick to point out we are certainly not a "God" when players use that word to describe GMs. We're just charged with enforcing policy in response to player reports or incidents staff witness. Other GMs rebuff the "Gods" comment as well.

quote:

---

And forget me... I am just a player, forget the fact that I spend $100 a month on their stupid game.

---

I should probably let Bardon field this one ::grins::

My only comment would be that it doesn't matter if someone pays $10 or $100, if they violate policy in some manner, they get dealt with in much the same way. We've really no way of knowing how much anyone pays to play.

quote:

---

And everytime I talk to a GM, all I get is BS. My situation isnt resolved to my satisfaction. They say they will look into it. Do they? Who knows. I don't, cause they won't say if any punishment was given to someone. They might get embarrised if their punishment is told..

---

As Kennesaw and Krash and many of us have stated several times, we don't discuss what actions were taken with another player/account. It has nothing to do with the other player's embarassment, and everything to do with confidentiality.

If a GM says they'll look into something and you hear nothing back, then assist in a week and get a referral to ask about it, or drop that GM email.

--A. reg

The last few times I have had a situation, I wasn't in the lounge, I haven't been made to read policy, and haven't even been in trouble.

And what I say was rude, didn't have anything to do with fairness, or being adult, refusing to be baited or diverted.. How can I divert you when I can't talk to you.

Also, my comment on teh $100 a month wasn't to say I am special because I pay so much. I know others who pay as much or more. Its to state that I am a paying customer, and I expect a service that deals with me not against me. Trys to help instead of give vague or misleading answers. This is what I mean when I get BS, and my situation isn't resolved.

And probably 3/4 of the time I've ever talked to a GM about something, I had asked them to DO something or look into it. I have NEVER received a response about what that had done if anything.

And the confidentiality part is something I don't understand at this point. Perhaps you'd care to explain why a games punishments should be secret. reg

First of all, it's because the GM signs an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) that binds them to confidentiality.

Second of all, if you (hypothetically - just using you as the example here) were locked out for violating policy, and knew you screwed up, and were embarrassed enough that you didn't want anyone to know.. would you want this information to be made public? Afterall, you ARE a paying customer. You have a certain right to confidentiality on your account. Your OOC punishments (lockouts, banning, removal of individual privileges) are no one's business but yours and Simutronics.

How a "punished" player chooses to deal with the situation is their own affair. But the GMs have no right to tell anyone what is going on with a customer's account.

If my credit card rejected a payment, you can be sure there's no way I would want anyone knowing that's why I got locked out. If my husband and I were having marital problems and he used my account to violate policies and get locked out, I'd be damned if I would put up with Simu explaining that to ANYONE.

They can't say "well in this case it's okay to tell everyone" and "hmm I don't think people should know about that one." That puts them in a position of liability.

Confidentiality protects both the customer and the GM.

Roberta
reg

I have had very little direct interaction with GMs, GHs, or any other authority figures during the almost five years I've been playing. What little interaction I have had was very pleasant and reassuring. I do appreciate the thoughts and feelings of others, who feel they've had "less than desirable" experiences with some of those authority figures. But, for the most part, I've not had any problems at all. I feel free to act in a manner of my choosing IG, provided that the gaming experience of others is not lessened by my actions/attitudes/words. I recall an even that happened where I did receive a [SEND] from a particular GM, who will remain nameless, gently reminding me that PvP/CvC was a consentable action. Mind you, the events that had occured prior to that [SEND] were actually unintentional, but the reminder was appreciated nonetheless.

I say this to say: Not all experiences are negative.

~Dely reg

Wait until you hear MY story!

Summer reg

lets see 100 divided by 10... Too much fer a halflin ta understand

and i used to think of andraste as a dirty ol woman who enjoyed watching me suffer no offense..grin

But with the reason experience i had with no discussion jes bam into a cell, oh and i found out what fer... turns out i disobeyed some gm'ess'es send to play nicely and when i said well im within policy and have a right to kill oogum in a report she said ok to a different question i later found out, i get too much out too fast heh

Well where was i

oh yea, when i got to CL she said i requestin lockout i said why she like smiled or sometin and issued me official warnin and BAM

Usually i can atleast argue my point with andraste to her annoyal..heh

RUSVAL
~Abuser of report..heh reg

You do know that if you feel the GM who handled your situation did so unreasonably, you can take that matter up with Feedback, right?

::gestures to the Moderator:: Oh Mr. Moderator... I think the topic has strayed. So perhaps we can get this one back on topic, close it out, or open a new topic called "Warnings and Lockouts - How Policy Should Be Enforced?"

Thanks,
--A. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by GMAndraste:
Yo Rusval,

You do know that if you feel the GM who handled your situation did so unreasonably, you can take that matter up with Feedback, right?

::gestures to the Moderator:: Oh Mr. Moderator... I think the topic has strayed. So perhaps we can get this one back on topic, close it out, or open a new topic called "Warnings and Lockouts - How Policy Should Be Enforced?"

Thanks,
--A.

---

Heh.

Not to flame you...or any other GM's...

Write Feedback! <laugh> <laugh> <laugh>

You're kidding right?

Unlock the preferences option on your control panel here at the Player's Corner and you'll see that you can choose posts from the last year (?). Then check out how many topics, posts, etc. have been made on Feedback. While at times it's your best area...it's the gosh darn last in terms of customer satisfaction. Why are Dell Computers #1 in many people's mind? Customer Service/Satisfaction. They rank #1 everytime...w/o question. (For proof...consult PC World's subscriptions of the past 5 months in a row...consider "Best of 2001" issue...rates Dell Optiplex #1 corporate pc, etc. etc. w/ a description of customer service)

Yes...I've had some great great great feedback encounters. I wrote into Platinum feeback asking for help w/ something! Wow...15 minutes later a response saying...that took me all of 15 seconds to do...not a problem.

Man...setup different sections of feedback or get multiple moderators (Not sure if there are...if there are, lemme know) or something to aid you all in better customer service. Where's the money going? (A huge question...don't shoot me David...always had a thing about this since a fund-raiser that I helped run that donated the money to a music hall rather than a new basketball court @ a top 25 high-school basketball school-didn't make sense ).

Enough.
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pirub9:
Perhaps these aren't the official boards and things don't get done that way. I'd hate to see a GM bossing around moderators on this board.

-Pirub

---

A
M
E
N

Pirub...I agree w/ you totally.

Although I didn't want to say it outloud...

Check the top of the webpage...

GemStoneIII Player's Corner.
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by JustLilOlMe:

A
M
E
N

Pirub...I agree w/ you totally.

Although I didn't want to say it outloud...

Check the top of the webpage...

GemStoneIII Player's Corner.

---

::grins:: Wow, guess I pushed some buttons with that one!

I just made a suggestion since the topic has gotten very off topic. No need to flame me just because... well, just because you saw a chance to get in a cheap shot, apparently. ::chuckle::

And by the way, last time I checked, I was still a GemStone III PLAYER, too

--A. reg

Some people will always jump at the chance to slam a GM (or someone who they feel is a kiss-up).

Don't take it personal, Andraste. reg

We give a bit of leeway as far as topics are concerned. Alot of times when you close and reopen a topic, it loses a lot of its former "momentum", its just bad for the debate. As a whole, as long as the topic remains relatively calm and flame free, we would rather not interfere with a good discussion. With that said, i'd also like to point out i hate speaking for every Mod as a whole, and every situation is open to interpretation and discussion by the volunteers here.

If you wish to suggest actions taken by us, that is fine, but it carries no more or less wieght then a suggestion by any other poster (at least by me). But i'm sure you already are aware of that.

One note, and I'm sure the staff reading can relate to this . Anything you point out here, probably has been noticed and discussed by the moderators already. Thats what we are here for, after all.

If you do feel that a subject needs our attention, i know i personally would rather get an IM and/or an email then a post in that topic.

Not only is it, in itself, off topic. But, it also begs to be responded to (as your now well aware ).

In this particular case (though im only a lowly script moderator and am usually locked in the dungeon when it comes time to discuss things), i think that they all share a common theme. Its not like we were talking about lockouts and customer service, then decide to venture off into a breakage discussion or something.

'lood

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoOneImportant:

Some people will always jump at the chance to slam a GM (or someone who they feel is a kiss-up).

Don't take it personal, Andraste.

---

Don't worry NOI I don't have to read these posts... or post on these boards either, if the response to an ernst comment from a new poster, staff, or someone judged to be a GM/Simu ass kisser gets that kind of reply.

It was pretty apparent that the topic had degraded from a discussion about Scintillion's situation to a discussion about lockouts, warnings, consultation lounges, some of the GMs. Seemed like a logical solution to split off a thread that was growing popular from the original intent of the folder... and that having a new folder named something more appropriate would continue to generate interest and conversation. Forgive me for being logical ::grin::

For the most part, I've found the postings here to be very informative, interesting, and illumative -- an opinion I have freely shared with the other GMs, in the hopes they might also wander by.

But they're not going to be interested in spending time here wading through the chaff to find the grain. I know David isn't, and neither am I.

Most of us already have a list of categories we need to read on the official boards. Coming here is strictly optional and something that staff does on their own time.

No one's saying your posts have to be nice and sweet and never say anything negative. But it will be the way you say it and what you say that keeps people reading, and keeps people returning -- or makes them lose interest.

Oh, and yes, there's a big difference between a joke (like telling me to contact Feedback) -- a touche that I can appreciate when executed well -- and a petty snipe.

--A. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by kelood:
I think what they were trying to say (though rather harshly i might add), is that The Players Corner tends to do things alot diferently then the official boards, or even other unofficial boards.

---

You're right, there, Lood, it was pretty harsh, but I'm expecting that was solely because of who I am. Unless that's the way every new poster gets treated here.

quote:

---

We give a bit of leeway as far as topics are concerned. Alot of times when you close and reopen a topic, it loses a lot of its former "momentum", its just bad for the debate. As a whole, as long as the topic remains relatively calm and flame free, we would rather not interfere with a good discussion.

---

Gee, now if you had been the first one to post a reply and you posted exactly that and in that tonality, it would have gone a long way to orient someone (like me) rather than chance the alienation of staff from these boards.

quote:

---

If you wish to suggest actions taken by us, that is fine, but it carries no more or less wieght then a suggestion by any other poster (at least by me). But i'm sure you already are aware of that.

---

Maybe I'm just being obtuse, but I don't recall saying or implying that I did. And if that's how people read it, then they misunderstood my intent.

quote:

---

One note, and I'm sure the staff reading can relate to this . Anything you point out here, probably has been noticed and discussed by the moderators already. Thats what we are here for, after all.

If you do feel that a subject needs our attention, i know i personally would rather get an IM and/or an email then a post in that topic.

---

Noted, Lood, and thanks for the courtesy of a well-worded reply.

quote:

---

Not only is it, in itself, off topic. But, it also begs to be responded to (as your now well aware ).

---

Well, yes, so I see. ::grin:: However, I know that -also- doesn't mean the post begs to be replied to harshly.

Then again, as Kranar and Buckwheet can attest to, I spend time choosing my words wisely in the hopes I can make a sincere, if not constructive, point, so it doesn't get lost or disregarded. I try not to make frivilous comments, just for the sake of doing so.

Thanks again Lood

--A. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by GMAndraste:
Well, yes, so I see. ::grin:: However, I know that -also- doesn't mean the post begs to be replied to harshly.

Then again, as Kranar and Buckwheet can attest to, I spend time choosing my words wisely in the hopes I can make a sincere, if not constructive, point, so it doesn't get lost or disregarded. I try not to make frivilous comments, just for the sake of doing so.

Thanks again Lood

--A.

---

Heh.

As I pointed out in the beginning...

1. Glad you're here.

2. Thanks for reading the posts here.

3. "This is not to flame any GM's..."

4. I find my posts fairly informative posts of opinion.

5. NoI! We lost you for a moment there...thank God a GM made a comment...you agreed on (No...I just like messing with NoI...it's fun...don't hate her...I just think it's fun).

You're a "player"? Lovely. But when you gain the power to jump into the game invisible....you become "non-player". I haven't seen Deavon in the game for a long time. And she was my mom's favorite warrior around. Heck...her husband Zurion was...and will be to this day my favorite mythical GSIII character.

My points....reiterated...since I only decide to post to rant and rave...oh...and because i only flame...

I'M NOT FLAMING GM's...

Hopefully capital letters help.

I'M NOT FLAMING GM's, but I still feel that Feedback has some serious issues to deal with that I know you all can do better with. If I were Simu...which I'm totally not...I'd take care of customer service first above everything else. Make the customer happy...and they comeback.

-Only problem with this is the addiction to GS issue. Which might eliminate that comment on the whole.

Thanks.

Sorry for the harsh comments earlier Andraste. I tried to think of a way to put it blandly...but it probably came out as immaturity. Accept my apology please

[This message has been edited by JustLilOlMe (edited 08-14-2001).] reg

Shame, horror, and yes, even bitterness crept into my vernacular for a few days.

I ended up walking away from this having learned a very valuable, (at least to me), personal lesson about myself and my morals.

The sad thing about Scintillion's perm ban is that people who believed him to be an honest and forthright friend ended up with the distinct impression that he snookered them.

Sometimes in our zeal we have the human tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Consider this before going full tilt against Scintillion's player.

Most likely, as in many cases, things are not as nice as the player states, nor as bad as the Gms state. Most times things could be easily dealt with if both sides approached the matter in a much less emotional state.

It is a given that if you take a players ability to play their character away that they will be quite distraught.

It is a given that if you piss off the Owner of Simutronics by insulting his very own friends that you will reap a very nasty harvest.

If, after careful deliberation, one accepts the fact that if we all just calmed down and approached this whole mess in a much more even-toned manner, that things would have worked out best for both sides. Well, at least it would've worked out in a much more reasonable manner for both sides.

If you doubt that Ryan, the player of Scintillion, was offered a deal to get out of his punishment sooner, then riddle me this: Ryna knows he isnt coming back, even taking into account that he is bitter, he gains nothing, nor makes his case better with Simu by touting that they made a deal with him.

When I was locked out, I learned a very important lesson. My learning my lesson did not require, nor was it asked of me, to apologize to anyone for anything. I did so on my own, for reasons that I believe to be most honorable. Somehow I get the feeling that by *requesting* an apology, no matter how much an apology is called for, can only lead to even nastier issues.

Volunteer humility: When a person is required to be humble in order to reach a goal.

It is patently unfair to ask a person to apologize while offering a possible salvation. If a person is truly sorry, they will apologize for their own reasons, in their own time. Any future apology has now been tainted by interjecting a reward for such an apology.

Not being there when they met and allegedly had this compromise, and only by reading the "log" of said meeting, I can only surmise what transpired.

Considering the situation, I can understand WHY David would ask for Ryan to get things out in the open.

Just because I can undertsand WHY David and Eric would offer to "horse trade" with Ryan does not mean that I believe that it was a good idea to even think about doing this, let alone doing it.

In the end I truly wish that things couldve been handled better from both sides.

In the end, who was right and who was wrong?

IMHO both sides were. But then, I myself am recently guilty of wrongdoing, (which I freely admit). Having said such, take my words as you will.

-Morandas reg

Sonic reg

If you wish to continue to speak about Scint/Ryan and his situation please do so here.

Any other posts about lockouts/lounge vists should be started in a new topic.

Buckwheet reg

Anyways, I've only had two dealings with her. First was a brief argument on the amulet where she was telling a person to make sure they used the black channel for selling. I didn't know she was a GM at first (heck, I thought she was a he at first) and was arguing that it's just Icemule and no one really cares about the occasonal For Sale thought.

Second was when I was having a typo/spelling error fixed in an alteration's show description. The long description could be interperated in different ways, one of which was again policy, and the other you wouldn't think of unless you had seen the show. She said she should change it, but I talked her out of it. She said she would talk to the GM who made it though, but I never heard from her about it again. I did later get it changed myself because it confused too many people. Although i don't like the way it was changed that time....

Anyways... Andraste is ok in my opinion. I've only ever had one bad experiance with a GM, and it probaly wasn't her, though I can't be sure because that one bad one the GM didn't use a name so I have no idea who it was.

Asmodea Drey'Haus reg

--Andraste the queen of the lair<<

Heh... that's just it Andraste..do they really want to wander into your lair? Are they brave enough?<winks>

Celtar

p.s: Andraste is a fine example of how you can agree or disagree and remain friends. I don't always agree with her and I know she doesn't agree with me, but I consider us friends. Hmm should I have admitted to being friends? Will I get targeted to now? Lol.

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Summerlyn:
Bah, Dely! You just use that charm on all of 'em (or else that smelly 'ole goat makes them keep their distance!).

Wait until you hear MY story!

Summer

---

------------------
*****
Delyorik Rolkien
Master of the House
Keeper of the Zoo reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alfador:
What I don't understand is why Scintillion was propositioned to make an apology website when his ban "had nothing to do with his anti gs site". Also, I'm curious as to what the staff would have considered an adequate apology. Would some flowers and neat little java scripts have made a difference?

Sonic

---

Well, I'm just taking a stab in the dark here, since I'm not staff and don't know the absolute true details of what went on between Scint and Simu.

But my feeling is, they said an apology site that was *on the same level* as the original site, would go a long way toward making amends. Ryan wrote a one page apology that anyone who knew him would know was a pile of BS. Concurrent to his apology being posted, people were posting on these boards about how he was forced to make the apology in order for him to get back into the game - something they specifically told him should not happen.

I never saw the original site, but it was described to me as several pages with several categories and many pictures that included insults about the person represented. So, it seems logical that an apology site that was on the same level as that would include several pages with several categories, that perhaps showcase the players insulted in a good light instead. Maybe ask around for logs of their bardic performances or funny experiences, post about their accomplishments, do the same amount of research into the apology site as he had to do to make the original site. Maybe even post something nice about each person insulted on the original site, in an attempt to "make up" for the insult they received.

Something like that, to me, would have been much closer to being "on the same level" as the original freaks site. And, he should have kept his big mouth shut and not told his buddies that he was being forced to do this to get back into the game. If he'd done that, maybe he'd still be here.

Thank God he didn't.

GG
~one girl and her opinions reg

It wasn't intended as a serious promise or commitment to anyone.

~Sayrena
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Asmodea:
Man, Andraste writes long posts...

Anyways, I've only had two dealings with her. First was a brief argument on the amulet where she was telling a person to make sure they used the black channel for selling. I didn't know she was a GM at first (heck, I thought she was a he at first) and was arguing that it's just Icemule and no one really cares about the occasonal For Sale thought.

Second was when I was having a typo/spelling error fixed in an alteration's show description. The long description could be interperated in different ways, one of which was again policy, and the other you wouldn't think of unless you had seen the show. She said she should change it, but I talked her out of it. She said she would talk to the GM who made it though, but I never heard from her about it again. I did later get it changed myself because it confused too many people. Although i don't like the way it was changed that time....

Anyways... Andraste is ok in my opinion. I've only ever had one bad experiance with a GM, and it probaly wasn't her, though I can't be sure because that one bad one the GM didn't use a name so I have no idea who it was.

Asmodea Drey'Haus

---

Hey Asmodea,

Sorry if I didn't get back to you on something. Sometimes, I end up waiting just as long as you for an answer. I can leave the GM responsible mail, but I can't make the read, unfortunately. ::chuckle:: If I see them and can nudge them, I try to remember to do so.

And if I could ask a favor please... if you know the names of my PCs, please don't post them here our of consideration for me.

JLOM, the dusty warrior wanders into the lands twice a month on Sundays, and generally once a month of odd days for an Amazons of Leya gathering. Sometimes she hunts, but lone-hunting is much fun.

A combination on being at a difficult age and missing her husband makes it hard to be in the lands.

But her cousin/niece/aunt/whatever, the Sorcerer, is around several times a week. And neither log in invisble.

Thanks for your post, too!

--A.
reg

Kiora always was a fan of your's...and I'm sure that should make me one as well.

I respect your request.

And thanks for saying thanks reg

So you are saying they was acting like liars...err lawyers?

Seems that being this way only makes people not trust Simutronics or their staff. Might be on the receiving end of a perma ban some day.

Bottom line. Simutronics should have banned him for the site...period. Not saying they was banning him out of the nowhere for his past warnings. Then trying to deceive him into giving up the other person involved.

No honor in the way they did it.

Lawyers kids are some of the most messed up ones. How will your kids turn out being taught to be deceptive and dishonest?

Maybe this way.

I had a girlfriend that was raped by a lawyers son and a friend. Guess what? He got out of it. I went with her to have a abortion from one of them knocking her up. But, he did not get out of the hospital time I gave him. Neither did the porsche he drove at the age of 17.

Maybe this is one of the reasons why all this shady crap they do hits a soft spot with me.

edge

reg

PS any further posts that don't have to do with Scintillion that are posted here will be removed. reg

His actions were deplorable in game, on the boards, at Simucon and on that site. I'm glad he's gone. reg