The Players Corner Archive

But the more likely to occur is:
3rd time, 60 day lockout
4th time, 90 day lockout

I think its somewhat unfair that someone thats been in the game for a month, and just got their 2nd warning, can potentially get the same punishment as someone thats been in the game for 5 years.

I realize, that the unofficial position will be "Well, we take the amount of time that a person has been in the game into account".

However, I'd like to see something put in as an official policy.

Something on the order of:
If you've been in the game "X" amount of time, you get downgraded 1 punishment level.

i.e. Every 2 years of being in the game, you drop 1 punishment level

A set policy would preclude personal interpretation on whether a specific GM follows Official Policy, or their own opinion in regard to what would amount to a sliding scale.

[This message has been edited by Magister (edited 08-10-2001).] reg

Only thing - there are many different things you can get a warning for. If someone gets 1 warning for each of say, 5 different things, there's 5 warnings. A newbie in their first month might actually get 5 warnings, and never repeat the same violation again.

Someone who's been around for a couple of years could be taking advantage of that scenario - breaking the rules left and right and never giving themselves a lockout because they've only violated each rule once - this year. Once - last year. But a dozen warnings is a dozen warnings.

What I'd like to see...in conjunction with your idea..

If the person has had *zero* violations recorded during a 1-year period, then they could have "x" previous violations drop.

This way, no one can say "Hey you should drop that violation/punishment, I haven't done that in 2 years!" when in actuality they've violated all the OTHER ones all year long.

I'm not really sure how it works, but I get the feeling that's the whole point behind that new system (can't remember what it's called) that keeps track of problem users.

My ramblings..

Me.
reg

I think it should be the way it is now. There are some incinsistancies, but overall it's better than it could be.

GS Fire reg

I'm not saying that your character DOES come with all this. I'm saying it SHOULD - that people who buy characters should accept the fact that the character they bought has this or that reputation and they just have to live with it.

R

[This message has been edited by Desharei (edited 08-10-2001).] reg

I know there is an unofficial position, that staff will say, that this would be unlikely to happen. And that it goes through several persons, channels, to prevent this from happening, etc.

But, I'd really like some sort of assurance in Official Policy that gives definitive guidance as to what a long term GOOD player can expect to receive for breaking an infraction - rather than leaving it up to the personal discretion of a particular GM that you happen to draw out of potluck at the moment.

It shouldn't have to be:
"Great! I got GM So-and-So, I'm golden - I'll get off with a plain ole warning, or a 30 day"
versus
"Darn! I got GM So-and-So, I'm screwed".

Long term good players should have something to hang their hat on when it comes to a particular punishment.

Speeding tickets come off your record in a few years. Heck, even bankruptcy comes off in 7 years. But the warnings, and their official policy punishments, are fixed no matter how long you play.

I'd like for it to be a sliding scale per Official Policy to protect those good long term persons.

If it means that they have to go to a "misdemeanor/felony" type of warning system to do it, so be it. reg

Say you do buy a character which had a 60 day ban and 90 days is next. Then they stay good for a year and BAM. Perma banned. They should have a fair chance to fix the wanring that character had.

Now here is another question. Not only does that character warning come to your account. Now they are added to the ones you have already. So, maybe your main character has had 0 warnings, now this new character comes onto your account with say 7 warnings and a 60 day ban.

Guess what? When your main character gets his first official warning, it will be a 90 day banning. Because he transfered a character with a 60 banning to his account. How is that fair? It's not. On top of all this, you can't assist and ask about your past warnings. They will not give you any info at all. I tried.

So, with the character transfers in the equation now. How do you plan on fixing these type of problems?

edge
reg

When I got my lockout (wasn't really a lockout, was just stuck in the consultation lounge til Issi was around to look over the situation), Draug told me I had two official warnings. I'd only been playing maybe a year, and I never remembered getting the first official warning.

Might be a great feature to add.. you go to the town's local house of law and type WARNINGS and get to see any official infraction against you. Not the notes GMs make, some things you just don't wanna know. But the actual warnings. Which policy you violated, which GM(s) nabbed you for it, the date and time it happened, and the "punishment" you got for it, if any.

R
reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Desharei:
Might be a great feature to add.. you go to the town's local house of law and type WARNINGS and get to see any official infraction against you. Not the notes GMs make, some things you just don't wanna know. But the actual warnings. Which policy you violated, which GM(s) nabbed you for it, the date and time it happened, and the "punishment" you got for it, if any.

---

I like this idea. reg

quote:

---

Now here is another question. Not only does that character warning come to your
account. Now they are added to the ones you have already. So, maybe your main
character has had 0 warnings, now this new character comes onto your account
with say 7 warnings and a 60 day ban.

Guess what? When your main character gets his first official warning, it will be a 90
day banning. Because he transfered a character with a 60 banning to his account.
How is that fair? It's not. On top of all this, you can't assist and ask about your past
warnings. They will not give you any info at all. I tried.

So, with the character transfers in the equation now. How do you plan on fixing
these type of problems?

---

Umm.. buyer beware?

Might be another good reason not to buy a character?

Tho, I do see Roberta's point. I recieved a warning my very first night in GS (or maybe was my second night). All I did was yell back at the gypsy - "HOW???". ::blushes::

I had no clue how to GIVE something and I was having a very hard time. But, that was back in the days when there were only 25 players in the game and the GMs considered yelling like that distuptive behavior. Being brand new to the game, I wouldn't have realized that was a 'official' warning.

But, the very situation of character sales is a good enough reason not to list a character's warnings. If a player is foolish enough to buy a character, then they must accept any baggage that the character may have attached to it.

[This message has been edited by Siara (edited 08-11-2001).] reg

But bottom line. Just because you don't like character sales. Doesn't mean that Simutronics should be unfair to anyone that transfers a character. Fair is fair. Period.

If it's your character. You should be able to reveiw your own warnings, which they don't allow. They will not even tell you who gave you a warning.

So, that is a system that has so much ability to abuse.

Everyone should be treated equal. Not be punished because we want to trade a character, be given one or out right buy it.

edge reg

The current system sounds fair to me. No one is being 'punished'. If what you are saying is correct, no one can inquire about their warnings. And, it's still a buyers/transferee beware type deal.

Whether you 'bought' or were 'given' a character. It still sounds like a good reason for not playing/receiving/transfering someone elses character.

[This message has been edited by Siara (edited 08-11-2001).] reg

So, if I buy a car. I aske the police if it is stolen and they say. Buy at your own risk. Total BS.

I buy a gun. It happens to be used in a murder. I tell them. Hey I just bought this gun! The Simu way is. You killed the person. Nothing else matters.

You listen to your logic and it way flawed by biase.

edge reg

Uh... you can assist and ask how many warnings you have. I don't know if they can tell you who gave you the warnings, but I know they can tell you how many you have. I've done this myself. I think you can also find out what your warnings were for (Vulgarity, Disruptive Behavior, etc), but I'm not sure about that. reg

I think that is 100% fair.

Why? Because if they cleared records of characters who were sold or transfered, anyone with a bad record could transfer their character to another account and get it cleared.

There's not really a way to track it. Anyone could transfer the character, use a different CC, name and address and BAM insta-clear record. There's no way to prove whether or not it's a legitimate transfer or someone doing it so that they can clear their record and cause more trouble.

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
If you buy a character you get the warnings and lockouts that came with it.

I think that is 100% fair.

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I agree.

Two points though.

1. If a sliding scale for punishment was put in, and your current characters were good on that account, it would water down the effect that a bad character transferred onto your account would have. A compromise of sorts.

A sliding scale really should be put in. A permanent, fixed regardless of long you've been playing, punishment criteria was fine for a game that had been around for 1-2 years. Now a decade - some sort of reasonable official policy punishment regimen should be implemented.

2. I'd still like to see some sort of automatic, in game, easy means of getting at least the minimum information regarding your warnings (how many, etc.) without having to assist.

reg

quote:

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So, if I buy a car. I aske the police if it is stolen and they say. Buy at your own risk.
Total BS.

I buy a gun. It happens to be used in a murder. I tell them. Hey I just bought this
gun! The Simu way is. You killed the person. Nothing else matters.

---

I try not to use analogies when trying to get my point across about game issues since most of the time the analogy just doesn't fit, or, the user has actually proven the oppositions point..as in this case ::chuckles::

If you bought a stolen car, chances are that you will be spending a great deal of your time defending yourself against possession of stolen property charges. Not to mention, not getting your money back. The simple statemant of, 'but, Officer, I didn't steal it!', just won't work.

You bought the car and the baggage that came with it. Buy at your own risk? I think so.

Same goes for that gun used in a shooting. You'll be spending even more time explaining and prooving how that gun came into your possession and probably face a laundry list of charges - that will be up to YOU the unaware purchaser to prove otherwise. You are in the possession of a firearm used in a killing. You think any authority figure is going to let you off when you say, 'I didn't do it. I just bought this gun'?.

You bought the gun and its whole sorted background. Buyer beware? I'd say so.

The other issue here is the difference between a 'character' and a 'player', something that may be a bit hard for some to grasp. Since this is a role-playing game and characters are used, all the GMs have to go by when they spot a trouble-maker is that 'character'. Only when they see a continued pattern of game distuption do they then lockout that player.

It's that 'character' that's tagged as the trouble-maker, and as NOI has pointed out, in order NOT to simply clear a bad record via a sale or transfer, all the warnings etc, stay with that character.

Buy at your own risk? Ayup.

Simu can hardly be held responsible for shady person that sells a character without disclosing all the baggage that may possibly go along with that character. (Image someone selling a character and being that dishonest..the horror!)

[This message has been edited by Siara (edited 08-12-2001).] reg

You can easily make the warning not associated with your other characters.

I get these things called credit card applications in the mail every day, so many I think its about 2 dozen a week. Anyway, you can always go to your bank and request another credit card with a small line of credit, say 250$ or 500$.

Use this card instead of the one your other accounts/characters are on and then when they review "your accounts" those warnings shouldn't show up.

I also like the sliding scale idea. I think I have a warning on one of my accounts from '97 that was for not whispering something and got a OOC violation.

I would love to see that go away, simply for the fact that I haven't gotten another one on that account for years.

I think if its possible to implement, or if they do implement it, that they set a certain period of time for certain warnings to wear off.

Say 6 months for a OOC, 1 year of unconsented PvP. I think that getting a warning for killing someone is more severe then saying a GM's name in public.

So to sum up, bought/given characters keep their record and its transfered to the new account holder, but you can be good and let them fall off.

Buckwheet reg

But anyway, I hope this gets implemented. Hey, just think... if the GM's start making the system now... we might be able to enjoy it in a few years when it comes out. ;0)

Btw, It would be nice to hear a few GM's intakes on this.. Although I feel a little discouraged about it because on the GS boards every GM that commented about it said '' warnings should stay on your record permanently, no questions asked ''. Funny.. never gave a reason though. Probably can't think of one. <shrug>

[This message has been edited by LordKranar (edited 08-12-2001).] reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Icedragon:
Although I feel a little discouraged about it because on the GS boards every GM that commented about it said '' warnings should stay on your record permanently, no questions asked.

---

I can live with the warnings staying on the record, as long as an appropriate punishment regimen is part of Official Policy for long term players. reg

quote:

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Originally posted by edge:
Guess what? When your main character gets his first official warning, it will be a 90 day banning. Because he transfered a character with a 60 banning to his account. How is that fair? It's not.

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Personally, I don't think it's fair nor does it have to be. I think that's the risk you take when you decide to buy a 'bad boy or girl'.

Pockets

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by edge:
Absolutely wrong!

So, if I buy a car. I aske the police if it is stolen and they say. Buy at your own risk. Total BS.

---

I can't speak for the law in all states, but in New York, if you buy stolen property, even unknowingly, you lose it. Buy a car that has a fraudulent title, and you may end up being out the both the car and the money. If you're lucky, you can try getting the money back from the person you bought the car from.

Get a cvounterfeit 20 dollar bill from the cash machine? If you try to spend it and are caught, you lose the $20. Not the bank that owned the cash machine.

In real life, it's caveat emptor. It's the same in GS. Whether of not this is fair is a totally different question.

Tsoran
reg