The Players Corner Archive

In the first story, a friend of a well-known thief, hired the thief to steal from someone. The friend paid the thief with a note and gave him some spells. The thief found the mark, and took a few coins from him. The thief was pulled up into the lounge, and was issued a verbal warning. Apparently, the thief was told it wasn't his conflict, and he shouldn't have been involved.

People are hired to pick boxes, for healing, to raise the dead, as guides, sing to gems, etc. I'm not sure if it's still being done, but I've heard of people being hired as assassins. I don't think stealing is considered harassment, so I'm not clear why hiring someone to steal is "against policy".

The other story involves my friend who is a young bard. The young bard is married to an older wizard. The young bard was playing an instrument in an unoccupied area, when an older ranger came in. The ranger ordered her to stop playing because it was distracting him. The bard ignored him and continued playing. The ranger gave her a little nap, and told her to respect her elders. At this point, the bard's husband got involved and the fight was on... verbally and with spells, but no weapons were drawn. The ranger and the wizard were approximately the same age, the bard was much younger. The wizard was pulled into the lounge and told it wasn't his conflict, and he should have stayed out of it. The ranger whispered to the bard that he was sorry, and he thought they were all enjoying the roleplaying. The ranger sent a report stating he had started the incident and didn't want the wizard to get in trouble. The wizard was issued a verbal warning.

I can't imagine standing by and ignoring the situation if one of my young friends was being "beat up" by someone older. I hate to assist/report and try to deal with situations in-character. Should all conflicts be reported, just to CYA (cover your arse)?

It sounds like it's risky to get involved in any type of confrontational roleplaying.

Summer reg

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Originally posted by Summerlyn:
In the first story, a friend of a well-known thief, hired the thief to steal from someone. The friend paid the thief with a note and gave him some spells. The thief found the mark, and took a few coins from him. The thief was pulled up into the lounge, and was issued a verbal warning. Apparently, the thief was told it wasn't his conflict, and he shouldn't have been involved.

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I'm not saying the thief didn't RP the situation...

But to me that's similar to playing an assassin. You can roleplay all you like that someone paid you to kill another person, but if the person getting killed isn't consenting to the roleplay then the situation will never work and the assassin will get in trouble.

reg

I can just see it now:

>You whisper to Siara, "Hey I wanna steal the diamond you just got out of that box. Okay with you?"

>Siara whispers to you, "No."

>You whisper to Siara, "Okay, thanks anyway."

>You walk north.

What kind of roleplaying is that?

What kind of game requires OOC permission to use a skill that exists primarily to be used on other characters? (Yes, I know it can be used on shop merchants, that's why I said "primarily.")

reg

There's a difference between stealing from random people and targetting people to steal from.

In this case, the thief in question stole from the person. Then the person walked off and the thief had him located so he could steal from him again. The person reported I guess, since the thief got in trouble. I don't know if they asked the thief to stop or not, I don't remember.

The initial thieving was fine in my opinion. Locating the mark so he/she could steal from them again was pushing the line, in my opinion as well.

The thief didn't get a warning or anything. He was just told that the mark was feeling harrassed and didn't want to be bothered by him anymore.

NOI reg

But..

I would have just given you my diamond, Desh-dear.

I'm sweet and kind and lovable.

::nods::

::nods:: reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Siara:
I'm sweet and kind and lovable.

::nods::

::nods::

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Des runs for cover from the impending slew of lightning bolts that's sure to follow Siara's comment

Yes I do love you sis.

Since when is picking pockets from someone a random act? You pick a mark every time you try stealing.

reg

On the other hand, since a log did not back this post about a warning given for such role-playing, I will have to take it with a grain of salt. I would hope there was more to the story than a rogue accepted payment for setting someone as a mark, then being warned by a GM for involving themselves in a conflict which did not concern them (such as even after being witnessed by the mark stealing, the rogue felt they were of high enough of a level that there could be no retribution and thus kept stealing, which I feel would be harassment).

~”Hello sir, I’ll be your robber tonight, here is a list of the more common actions I will be performing. If at any time you feel threatened or if I have in any way reduced your level of enjoyment in the lands, please raise your hand, and I’ll be merrily on my way” John Whitmore, 1326 England, The last gentlemanly thief, died of starvation in 1327.
reg

::scoffs::

In my opinion, this also is a good example of the different levels of role-play within this game and/or the lack of role-play.

Person A is role-playing. Person B is taking it personally and reports.

or

Person A considers a harassing type character as 'role-play'. Person B sees it for what it is and reports.

I'm seeing quite a bit of this in a different light, now that I've started playing Inferno. Inferno is going through somewhat of the same thing GS did when a large group of newcomers came into the game.(The difference between the two is that GS got a huge amount of newcomers all at once and were trying to keep as many as they could, whereas Inferno has a small enough newcomer rate and the GM staff backs and supports elder players 'correcting' any snertish or out of line behavior.)

There are different levels and degrees of understanding role-play. What is role-play to some, is personal harassment to others. And there's no easy answers.

I think the GMs do the best they can to try and manage this variance amongst the players. This 'Disney-fied' version of the game (as some people now call it) is what happens when the over-all reports are of a harassing nature.

Game mechanics allow for thieving, the problem is the role-play quality isn't there to back up the mechanics. It's just like the little snert Sorcerer that wanted to get a gang of Sorcerers together and drop cursed gems all over -- sit back, laugh and call it 'role-playing an evil Sorc'. The GMs at some point, have to draw the line between unacceptable so-called role-play and true role-play. It's not an easy call. reg

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Originally posted by Ellarze:
[B]A rogue accepting money to set a player as a mark, IMHO, goes to the heart of role-playing a rogue. Harassment be damned, if I am offered a note to pick someone’s pockets, you can bet the house that I’ll be on their trail as soon as the note has been deposited. Now, if I’m caught, I’ll gladly give up my sponsor for a price, but once again, that is keeping with my idea of what (and who) a rogue is at heart. Furthermore, if anyone (GM’s included), takes issues with this and attempts to compare my actions to those who seek to role-play an assassin, I’ll gladly remark that rogue is an official class, where as an assassin is not. Now, I know that the official GM stance is that rogues are not thieves per say (thieves would ruin others fun and all), but if that is truly the case, then call them scouts rather than rogues.

On the other hand, since a log did not back this post about a warning given for such role-playing, I will have to take it with a grain of salt. I would hope there was more to the story than a rogue accepted payment for setting someone as a mark, then being warned by a GM for involving themselves in a conflict which did not concern them (such as even after being witnessed by the mark stealing, the rogue felt they were of high enough of a level that there could be no retribution and thus kept stealing, which I feel would be harassment).
B]

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I think the rogue in question is a great roleplayer. I think that it was fine for him to accept money to steal from someone, especially given the way he roleplays his thief. But when the person left the room to avoid him further, he should have left it at that or waited until the next time he saw the mark to steal from him. I don't think he should have located the person, sought them out and continued to steal from them.

Especially since this rogue is pretty high level and pretty notorious, I can understand the mark feeling a little trapped when he gets located and this high level thief comes and continues to steal from him. Obviously the mark didn't want to be involved in the roleplay going on, which is his choice. The thief should have let it go after the mark left the room. He did what he got paid to do. Locating the mark to continue stealing from him could be considered harrassment, in my opinion.

NOI
reg

I've seen many thieves working on a mark in the Tower, then follow the mark out the door so the thief could continue rummaging through their pockets. I'm just not understanding why the Notorious Thief's incident was considered harassment, and those other incidents of targeting a mark, which probably occurs daily in the Tower... isn't.

Summer reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Summerlyn:
[QUOTE]
I've seen many thieves working on a mark in the Tower, then follow the mark out the door so the thief could continue rummaging through their pockets. I'm just not understanding why the Notorious Thief's incident was considered harassment, and those other incidents of targeting a mark, which probably occurs daily in the Tower... isn't.

Summer

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Sure it is.

Generally I think the mark should ask the thief to stop first, and if the theif refuses to then report for harrassment. Unfortunately some people automatically report first instead of trying to work it out on their own which is probably what happened in the case you were talking about.
reg

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Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
Sure it is.

Generally I think the mark should ask the thief to stop first, and if the theif refuses to then report for harrassment. Unfortunately some people automatically report first instead of trying to work it out on their own which is probably what happened in the case you were talking about.

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I would take the guess that most people report first without stating anything to the other player in this game. I have been banned for causing "disruption" in the game via feedback. I discussed the merits of this very same issue and since my statements were wrongly interpreted by GM Daecir therefore he or she has took it upon themselves to ban me permanently from the game due to viewpoints and not actual incidents.

I have always given the other real person the fair minded chance to first voice my concern as a player by a whisper before reporting. Most of the time this very same act ellicits a negative response from the person I whisper to and I am then in turn whispered back "stop harassing me" from one single statement or "stay in character".

The type of people that are playing today coupled with current policy enforcement have set up a situation where policy is used as some PvP tool by so many people it robs the people of roleplaying.

You simply can't roleplay anymore any sort of negative response in character. You will always risk it being taken personally as an attack against the player and not the character.

I am not talking about physical attacks, spells that directly affect game play, or even outright murder. The situation and abuse by so many people now make it prohibitive for anyone to state how they feel as the player.

For example. A character named Marietta was slapping and kissing my character when told not to by my character with very clear communication that if she continued to do so my character would do something about it. Anyone want to guess what next happened? It should be pretty predictable. The player tells me I can't do anything because if I do she will report me for harassment. I don't understand this at all. Let me explain further.

To the camp says I should report right off the bat I will say this. I the player was not upset by this person's roleplay action. I the player play a character that tries to maintain a certain personality and will provide a consequence to another if they do not heed his words. I do not pick fights and only respond with clear warning IF so and so continues or does something again TO my character THEN something will happen. The CHOICE is the player's if they wish to roleplay that or not knowing full well the result for one choice. Doesn't that seem more than fair and with ample warning?

I simply want to roleplay and maintain a certain character sketch within the game. When another character tries to downplay it and blatantly ignores my character's request with a known result why would they as the player then suggest they will report me for harassment?

This is all too common and has added a great deal of activity of late to my account official history. These same sort of incidents are the norm when I play. People can not seem to act maturly as players and honor the wishes of another player or at the very least stay in character and have their character be responsible for their roleplayed actions.

I am starting to understand why all the people who have played anyone of darker personalities have given up and moved on.

The Bleeds, Sagan's, Briar's, of this world would not survive anymore because the sheer number of assists they would have to log to counter all of the snert reports and actions would take all of their gaming time.

Staff can not monitor all actions all the time and after awhile the sheer volume in itself will tilt the scale and label the person who simply wants to roleplay (fairly I might add) will be a marked target with the lifespan of a flea. The very existance or consistent persona will now be garnished with the label "disruptive" because staff would rather cater to the majority of snerts that seem to litter the lands and drive the game into a death dive that is unrecoverable.

I am seeing quite a bit of negativity by not only player's of late but also the same sort of actions taken by GM's. Why is this?

Can anyone enlighten me why this disturbing trend is happening? And please don't let the fact that I have been banned permantly affect your judgement. Take an honest view yourself and let me know.

Anyone who would like to contact me privately if you do not feel comfortable here then please email me at hiway1999@yahoo.com.

Darren H.

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Hiway:
For example. A character named Marietta was slapping and kissing my character when told not to by my character with very clear communication that if she continued to do so my character would do something about it. Anyone want to guess what next happened? It should be pretty predictable. The player tells me I can't do anything because if I do she will report me for harassment. I don't understand this at all. Let me explain further.

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The thing is...

Roleplay is a two-way street.

You can't force others to roleplay with you. In the situation quoted above, the other person obviously did not want to roleplay the conflict out or she would not have reported you/threatened to report you.

In that sort of scenario, you have to REPORT the person and let the GMs know what they're doing. Report when they're harrassing you and won't stop, assist about it and let the hosts get down all the info.

You can say "her actions didn't upset me" and that you wanted to handle it in character. Sometimes you CAN'T. You can try, but you'll only be putting yourself in a risky situation because that person will do whatever they can to report you at a point in the conflict that makes you look bad.

Maybe they did start it and did deserve whatever action you took upon them. Chances are pretty good that they did. But since you didn't report and they reported after you killed them, what do the GMs see when they look in to it? All they see is you attacking said person.

If you want to stop people like this, the only way to go is through the GMs. You can't have CvC when the second person isn't roleplaying. That becomes PvP, which is a pretty grey area.

In that situation with Marietta - If she's continually slapping/kissing you and won't stop... REPORT HER. You can go ahead and stun/kill her, but then she'll just report you and make you look like the bad guy. GMs are not all knowing. They can't watch everyone all the time. So don't put yourself in a bad situation by allowing someone to try to get you in trouble like that. If she won't stop, report her. If you want to stun her, go ahead... but send a report saying "Marietta is constantly kissing/slapping me despite me asking her to stop. I am stunning her now because I'm sick and tired of her harrassment towards me." At least then you're somewhat covering your own arse by making sure the GMs know what is going on.

NOI

reg

Asmodea Drey'Haus reg

As more and more time passes it is readily apparent to me Simutronic's choices and decisions regarding this matter. They have chosen to support the player who chooses his or her right to be a snert to protect revenue. They will do so in direct conflict with game integrity. I know also that there are some staff members who have made it a hobby to see me go the way of the dinosaur and other friends of mine at the same time.

I should of seen this sooner and now really know why such games as Realms of Exile, Aephir's new game and Inferno have started.

My wife talked to a lawyer yesterday and he is very enthusiastic in pursueing a case on marital discrimination. He stated that Simutronics can not guarentee me from accessing anyone's account and preventing my wife access just because she is married to me is illegal and disriminatory. Will fill you in if she decides to pursue it.

Darren H. reg

quote:

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Originally posted by NoOneImportant:
Sure it is.

Generally I think the mark should ask the thief to stop first, and if the theif refuses to then report for harrassment. Unfortunately some people automatically report first instead of trying to work it out on their own which is probably what happened in the case you were talking about.

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Is this a role-playing game or not? Who role-plays and who does not? Who decides this?

If GM's consider people pickpocketing a reportable offense, then why allow that action in the first place? If using offensive spells on people is not allowed, then why let people cast them on others? Why let the minor majority (GM's) decide what is and what is not correct in their eyes. Either let people role-play and do what they want and not get GM's involved, or remove the actions in question. Very simple, solves everything quickly.

I understand that there would be certain situations where GM's would need to be involved such as account hackings, certain people abusing privileges of being level 1, sexual harassment, etc. Just let the players be! If the players do NOT like what they find, they'll move on anyway. Otherwise, everyone is on equal terms and you won't be losing players due to decisions, whether made appropriately or not, by staff.

Role-playing games did not start with Simutronics. The original games did not give you the option tocomplain if someone stole from you or killed you. It was just a fact of life in playing.

Are you really a role-playing game, or are you just people playing roles? If you don't like what happens to your role, does that give you the right to have the offensive person anhilated?

Celestine reg

You summed up pretty much my main complaint with the game of Gemstone III.

Be extremely carefull if you wish to keep playing the game in voicing these opinions even outside of the game.

Best of Luck.

Darren H. reg

It's pretty clear that an on-line game cannot make money and still attempt to cater to a small select player base. So, while GS can claim itself as a 'role-playing game', I'll again quote NOI in that - "you cannot enforce others to role-play with you" - and expect the company to still make money.

The thing is, in games like Inferno, Avalon etc., you CAN enforce players to role-play with you, because the player base of those games understand and comply with -- get this -- role play.

Those in GS that want true role-play have to 'look for it', find and stay with those that do role-play, walk away from ANY that are not role-playing and use REPORT to cover their own hind ends. These are the facts of life within GS.

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Siara:
The bottom line here is just as NOI stated in another thread -- it's the bottom line. As in REVENUE.

It's pretty clear that an on-line game cannot make money and still attempt to cater to a small select player base. So, while GS can claim itself as a 'role-playing game', I'll again quote NOI in that - "you cannot enforce others to role-play with you" - and expect the company to still make money.

The thing is, in games like Inferno, Avalon etc., you CAN enforce players to role-play with you, because the player base of those games understand and comply with -- get this -- role play.

Those in GS that want true role-play have to 'look for it', find and stay with those that do role-play, walk away from ANY that are not role-playing and use REPORT to cover their own hind ends. These are the facts of life within GS.

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I understand that but either what you do in game of any sort of action is either roleplay or OOC. OOC actions are against policy. When the GM's start realizing this then it will make their job that much easier.

As the example of someone slapping or doing some other sort of action their character is either roleplaying and should accept and actually have fun in the "reaction" they get.

Why should people have to defend roleplaying? I never asked for nor expected to be forced into roleplay, BUT when they choose of their own free will to ROLEPLAY to my character FIRST in such a manner where it may result in something negative then I should have the simple right or policy to back me as the player to do such without having to GUESS/ASSUME that the other player is or is not roleplaying. Shouldn't we by the very DESCRIPTION of the game trust that people have their characters do something that is roleplay or should we report and ask at ever little thing we see?

I do agree. Roleplay with only people you know and just flat out ignore anyone else who does anything else to your character because even reporting this activity will get you into trouble with staff and lead to a banning from the product as disruptive..?

Darren H.

reg