The Players Corner Archive

This is the stupidist thing Gemstone can implement in the game.

99% of the players nowadays was not around during breakage. So, think they are going to be happy when the items they spent years customizing are going to break? Nope.

Also, they turned off the numbers and people are selling annaeled items and telling people they are not annaeled. This is a buy at your own risk market. So nothing you can do until it breaks. Plus, in all their wisdom. They say annaeled weapons can't be fixed when breakage comes out. Screw me some more please!

I already told everyone when breakage comes. I am gone till it leaves. I think we all should get people together to cancel accounts the day it comes. Then when we cancel. Say to billing. Give me a hollar when breakage gets turned off again. I will come back then and only then. 1000 accounts canceled will make them think twice. Only way to get Simutronics to listen to the players is to lose tons of money.

The majority of players do NOT want breakage period. Even with forging.

edge
reg

Mike

Zanagan reg

Sonic reg

Asmodea Drey'Haus reg

Currently in my opinion a lot of the DU's and ST's for armor, weapons and shields make no sense.

Some things need more DU (Durability), and some need less. The same thing for the ST's
of many items.

Also a wear and tear system needs to be coded, with the supplimental support for repair and forging of new gear.

Celtar reg

-John

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AIM: High Lord 42o
EMail: djdisapate@djdisapate.com
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www.djdisapate.com
www.eternalbeats.net
www.eraver.net
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(Ever wonder if rubber chickens think people are funny?) reg

The foremost being that I think it is completely bogus that a person with a 500 DS empty handed can walk into a room with a kobold, and have no chance of his stuff shattering (since its not in his hands).

But put a weapon/shield in his hand - and all of a sudden the kobold that had NO chance of hitting him, is all of a sudden able to get close enough to clash with his weapon/shield and potentially cause it to break?

How wrong.

You want to put a "wear & tear" modifier of some sort since he's using it - fine. But get rid of the chance of catastrophic failure in those types of scenarios.

[This message has been edited by Magister (edited 09-17-2001).] reg

What are all of these people with these incredible weapons/shields/and armors that they've spent time obtaining/creating at merchants going to do whenever these items disintegrate due to a rolton attacking them?

No sense. reg

For because it adds more realism to the game, and will actually start building an economy within the game between players more so than anything else. Especially if they allow us to start making our own stuff.

I am against it because that means I will have to pay more money... and in the lands when it comes to weapons and armor/shields, my costs will get extremely high once I get back up in the titled stage. (Yes I recently rerolled) Also I am against it because, while more realism would be a benefit, I dun wanna deal with getting things fixed, or trading in for a new one... I mean, gods, dun we do this enough to pull our hair out in RL?

------------------
Caels Onae'Rae
AIM : Caels OnaeRae
MSN : Caels_Onaerae@hotmail.com
ICQ : 91446467
Yahoo!: caels_onaerae reg

For one, I believe it will create the whole 'cookie-cutter syndrome' all over again. Weapons that are already seldomly used (rapiers, most pole-arms) will see another drop in their already low viability. This will force everyone to start using heavier items, such as axes and maces. The same can be said of armor; anything below brigandine will break far too easily, so everyone will strain to get heavier armor even if they're not trained for it.

Another opinion of mine is that critter hunting choices will be severely limited. Off the top of my head, hill trolls, reivers and some warfarers will become un-huntable because they wear heavier-than-brig armor. Also the weapons which critters gen with are still brand-new, which creates problems in a long fight. I heard a while ago that that last point may be changed, but nothing since.

(p.s. edge, what's annealed? Does it have to do with the artisan system?) reg

Asmodea Drey'Haus reg

Sonic reg

reg

Sonic reg

Now, again my lore on such things is quite rusty Sonic. But even the dictonary gives one the opinion that using annealing "in the forging process" would most likely make a better blade.

Annealing is just a "part" of a forging process. SIMU as usual in my opinion made their usual error. Sort of like the hafted swords and the pommeled axes. Etc..etc..etc. The list of errors is so long that not even I can keep them straight anymore. I blame it on too much good german beer, but that's my excuse.

One of the concepts I "always" tried to remind myself of as a tabletop roleplaying GM was, consistancy. Whether it was in regards to world history, items, how I dealt with players or how I roleplayed a NPC.

SIMU's major fault has always been a lack of consistancy. Followed by a unwillingness to learn from their errors, usually.

Celtar

an*neal (verb)

[Middle English anelen to set on fire, from Old English onaelan, from on + aelan to set on fire, burn, from al fire; akin to Old English aeled fire, Old Norse eldr]

verb transitive

First appeared 1664

1 a : to heat and then cool (as steel or glass) usu. for softening and making less brittle; also : to cool slowly usu. in a furnace

b : to heat and then cool (nucleic acid) in order to separate strands and induce combination at lower temperature esp. with complementary strands of a different species

2 : STRENGTHEN, TOUGHEN

verb intransitive

: to be capable of combining with complementary nucleic acid by a process of heating and cooling

reg

I've been playing GS since early 1994. Over 7 years. I have seen and been through a LOT of change, many of which I liked, some of which I didn't. No specifics, but there's one thing that for the first time, has me miffed: The proposed breakage system.

As the system seems to stand today if you smash it, it be gone. This has two major negative side effects:

1. Inflation
-------------
Supply and demand. I want a BMW M3 but most dealerships are charging me $10,000 over sticker for the coupe.
Why? Only a few M3s for a LOT of buyers.

The same is happening with items. Strong items are in high demand yet few are available to go around. What
hasn't already been gobbled up will. Strong 4x shields are hitting 1.5 million. That's over 20 times the
cost of a vultite shield made at the armory!

Expect to see further inflation as well for strong, high enchant items as enchanting potions are relatively
unavailable. With fewer high-end items in the game, their price will only rise. Padded and weighted items
are no exception as these slowly begin to exit the lands.

2. Simu's bottom line
----------------------
I'll say that most people are dissatisfied with the proposed breakage system. Majority (51%) at the very
least. What does this mean? Simu has a chance of a 'noticable' numbers of GS players leaving. Now I'm not
talking a mass exodus here, but this is a topic that has a LOT of people ticked off. Simutronics will likely
take a small short-term hit in revenue for GS until new players replace the old ones.

I ask this to the staff, can you afford to lose revenue in a somewhat wavery economy? How would you feel
if that a casualty of the new breakage system is one or two need to be terminated to reduce expenses and
maintain the company's expected profitability?

-----

What should Simu do? Ask the players. They've already done this, and apparently have made whatever decisions they've made. I HOPE one of them is a repair shop...

Now I've been playing for 7 years... I have three good pieces of equipment that I've amassed. No treasures. Less than a million silvers in the bank for sure. I know as soon as catastrophic breakge is in, my equipment I've worked very very hard for is going in the locker and expect me to use nearly stock equipment. Why? Those three items are the represent a lot of well-spent effort and hard work and I'd actually be somewhat upset if I lost them. It'd be like my house catching fire and my car exploding on the same day. I can get new ones but they still have a meaning to me and I still take a monetary loss.

I realize you intend to balance the game but there are better ways than catastrophic breakage. I understand that the entry of all these items has created a problem, but as not just I, but many people, whether they voice it on the boards or grumble to themselves are NOT looking forward to the changes. As someone who does QA for a software company before we change or patch a product we do one thing and one thing only. Market research. We only give the customer what they want the best way we can. That's it.

I'm not booing breakage here. It has good intentions but in my opinion, and surely others, it's not going about it in a good way. Will I quit? Probably not. But probably not isn't a no either. First time I've ever had to think about it, but we'll see what happens when the time comes.

-- Lady Palmonia reg

I bought 6 strong 10x items. Sold all my leathers and got brig or better. Got a gem eating item for prayer and walls for the coming of self cast walls. Got a hoard of ruby amulets charged.

I sold my db items.

So, once again. These changes only hurt the average players.

I will locker everything and pick to learn. Cash hunt all day long in places where I can hunt without armor or weapons. So the changes are going to create tons of other problems.

This is not a smart change in the world of Gemstone. If enough people leave. Then GMs will start to be laid off. Never thought about that. Did ya?

To many people have worked hard and put in long hours to get these items they cherish. Now you want to take them away like that...POOF! You will be wondering what happened all those accounts when the go...POOF!

That will happen if castrophic breakage is implemented.

Plus, you turned off the numbers. Now there is no way of telling if a item was annaeled. So a lot of people have been scammed in the respect. Be prepared for the assists and complaints about that. You brought this upon yourself.

edge

reg

Sonic reg

Edge, you talk about the negatives only of a breakage enviroment, especially to the "average" player.

The "average" player doesn't have DB items, many if any weighted and/or padded items, or highly enchanted gear.

What breakage allows the GMs to do is multiple in fold, as far as services and merchants.

Repair, above and beyond what the normal shops can do.

Strengthing.

Padding.

Weighting.

Sanctification, including weighted weapons.

More flares.

Enchanting.

Different flares.

More items into the treasure system, including all of the above.

The "average" player will have a better chance to acquire via the random spinner, tripping over a merchant, lists, games, and the treasure system, items far out of their reach.

Supply and demand creates many imbalances, which you have discussed. Prices go up, when the demand is high, the supply finite. What happens when the supply goes up? Prices fall. Great example from when I first started playing. Blessable 4x fals. Unavailable, almost at any price. Then a merchant sets up in Krol. Anyone can get one, and for the bargain of only 200k. A couple years later, a 4x blessable fal is a common item. Pocketed cloaks, the list goes on.

Another thing to consider is the infinite incoming silver. Again, infinite incoming coins vs finite items = inflation != good for the 'average' player.

Going to be a big change? Yep.

Is it needed? The alternative is to limit incoming items which stay "forever"

Just a couple coins worth.

Khaladon reg

Strengthing.

Padding.

Weighting.

Sanctification, including weighted weapons.

More flares.

Enchanting.

Different flares.

Average players can barely afford vultite and maybe 5x gear. They will not be able to afford that stuff without going outside of Gemstone to purchase coins. The treasure system sucks now.

-----------------------

More items into the treasure system, including all of the above.

The "average" player will have a better chance to acquire via the random spinner, tripping over a merchant, lists, games, and the treasure system, items far out of their reach.

Nice deceptive statement. They said the number of boxfounds will be double. What does this mean....lol. SO instead of taking 4 years to find a item. Might take 2 years. Most likely never.

----------------------------------

I am still trying to see the positives. Unlike you. A GM. Who can replace your own stuff. We the players don't have that ability. You don't give someone steak for years then tell them they can only have beef jerky.

I have NO FAITH in you. Like when you use to tell me Soulpieced and other players was GM's over AIM. I was never dishonest with you.

edge

reg

My questions for you are probably somewhat outside of what you can actually say, but it might make me feel better.

With the current breakage system will things like boil earth and manuver attacks be taken into account with breakage? So if I get boiled by a firemage or burrowed by a roater when I get hit does my armor have a chance to be ripped to shreds?

My next question is concerning semi's. I currently have a ranger that is fighting things like Illoke and Mages in EN. Currently I did not have to worry about the strength of the weapons these creatures carried because I had bought(luckily enough) a fairly strong waraxe and shield and the base breakage for brig was really nice. Now when I hunt with my ranger or with my bard for that matter, they wear brig because they can't handle the chain hinderance since the armor change, 50% of the time I will get swung at and for my ranger is 99% of the time going to hit me, 90% of the time kill me, and clash with my armor. With the new breakage stats coming are semi's who are currently relying on the heavier padded scale armors going to have to now replace these 8-40m armors? With my bard since he is a little younger I don't need the padding as much, but I still don't like the idea of having to replace my 4-5x suit of brig every 4-6 months.

Now my ranger sometimes goes cash hunting. I fail to see how removing things from the economy will help in my case. Last night I took my ranger (level 66) to Roa'ters, harbs, sents, banshees, kings, Illoke, and Sheru. I think after about 3 hours of hunting I made about...30k. That was with one King dropping a diamond. So I got lucky.
Currently forest green brig sells for 7-7.5m which is what my ranger needs to survive in the actual areas I hunt in. It would take 700 hours of hunting to purchase a new suit of forest green brig for me if mine were to shred in a catastrophic clash. You are aware that at my current experience absorbtion rate that that amount of time would give me a little more then 15 trainings making me 81 trainings. So I would have to try and hunt for 15 levels without the padded armor.

Which leads me to semidux. If you could explain why breakage is being added before semidux that would be great. With semidux in place I would care less about loosing my 7m armor and only be disturbed by loosing 6x brig or shoot even 4x.

Buckwheet reg

What about minor/major acid?

If I wave a crystal wand at something wearing armor, lets say a breastplate, and hit it in the chest, does that mean the breastplate is dissolved by the acid, since the acid would obviously need to be through the breastplate to do chest damage?

I guess if Simu is looking for more "realism" by bringing in the breakage system, the effects of acid on any armor worn need to be looked at also, right?
reg

Sonic reg

Believe it or not
after goin to teras for about one week picking up all boxes
i prolly played less then 30 hours that weak i made a good 900k jes doin devils shoots lizards and pyros and thraks wit rus(45) wizard reg

Now.. You have to find something that much younger than you are, and that has a decent amount of treasure.

You hunt something that much smaller than you because it takes much less effort, time, and mana if you use it. Usually. Some people get by fine cash hunting things their own level. If so, more power to ya.

Buckwheet, you said your ranger is 66? Try hunting in the landing, or Rivers Rest. Take on some stone trolls, and stone giants in Landing, or the Krolvin warfarers in RR. Those both have great amounts of cash. The stone stuff I have hunted myself, and know for a fact you can make large mounds of coins there. The RR warfs, I have heard about from SO many people that hunt them on a regular basis to gain levels. Buncha people say they are getting rich there.

Taking on something almost 1/3 your train should be real easy, real quick, and you'll be loaded down with boxs youll need to take back to landing probably to get picked. Stone trolls and giants always have had a nice amount of gems, and boxs. The only down side is they dont generate too quick. You'll have to put in a lil more time waiting for them to come out. Also some cougars? with them that you could prolly skin for a lil bit of extra coin.

And Rusval.. At 45 you should hunt something under you too, maybe not quite half your level going too young makes the profit kinda small. But you could prolly do the krolvins, or if on Teras you could do Kiramon.. they arent as much as a cash inflow as usual, but I always find nice gems on them. I make around 100k in gems there, in an hour. I use a rogue though.. no mana involved. He can ambush their head, skin and search. All real fast, using macros. He is slowed down by an 8 second ambush being a giant. But even that
doesnt detur me much.

And Buckwheet.. If your trying to stay in Elven Nations, I have no ideas for ya really, cept to explore some of the smaller areas, and find something you can take out real quick with the smaller spells, or with your sword skills. Unless you do real good with stuff your age.

The easiest way I ever had cash hunting was using a lvl 122 sorcerer with 366 mana... Id goto Darkstone hunting stone sentinals and banshees. Those are RICH. :c)

I've also heard the Shan in Sol Haven are pretty rich, but I havent tried them much myself for a long while. And when I did I wasnt cash hunting so I dont know for sure. reg

Here are some straight AS shots.

I don't have DS ones, but they are pretty pathetic.

With 117 running.

You swing a golden rolaren waraxe at an Illoke mystic!
AS: +510 vs DS: +273 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +60 = +326
... and hit for 99 points of damage!
Powerful slash leaves the Illoke mystic without a right leg!
The Illoke mystic rumbles in agony as he teeters for a moment, then tumbles to the ground with a thundering crash!
The Illoke mystic is stunned!
The guiding force leaves you.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

Without.

ou swing a golden rolaren waraxe at an Illoke mystic!
AS: +435 vs DS: +223 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +55 = +296
... and hit for 97 points of damage!
Incredible blast shatters head into a red spray.
The Illoke mystic grumbles in pain one last time before lying still.
The silvery luminescence fades from around an Illoke mystic.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around an Illoke mystic.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

Defense in offensive with a FULL spellup. (which will be going away.)

Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
A stone mastiff tries to bite you!
AS: +386 vs DS: +465 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +11 = -44
A clean miss.

Make that 365 in offensive after WoF falls off and then -150 for wizard spells.

Buckwheet reg

Gemstone is suppose to be a game.

Games are for fun and enjoyment right?

Now we throw in breakage. Which gives us stress. Now stress is NOT fun. Thus, breakage is bad for the game because it creates stress and much unfun.

UNFUN is the word of for breakage.

Now, we been seeing breakage numbers. Which is being showed with alot of favoritism. Seems the staff are getting there crap tweaked better then everybody elses. Now this pisses me off even more. Great game balance.

I am making a list of staff breakage numbers vs everybodies elses. Going to be a fun list to show. But debating on outing that many people.

I hope they lose enough customers that their jobs are lost...........

Who arse do I have to kiss to get my breakage numbers bettered?

Let me guess. They going to add strengthening to the GH\Sage host points list? Great. So they get padding. enchanting and strengthening when rest of the population doesn't.

::throws game balance and fairness into the trachcan::

edge...There is no GM favoritism...it's just my imagination. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by edge:

edge...There is no GM favoritism...it's just my imagination. [/B]

---

?!
reg

reg

Bianca

PS. And Edge, do you ever read what you post? I really think anger management courses will help you. You basically sound like SIMUTRONIC'S IS OUT TO RUIN MY LIFE! in every post. Yeah, favortism happens, I won't delude myself into thinking it doesn't. But dude, get a grip. It's not as rampant as you'd like to believe. And it's no wonder no GMs want to post here with answers or replies with you taking personal jabs at them. reg

Great thing about voicing our opinions. Bad thing is everyone has one.

Oh ya. This is the Gemstone Concerns section last time I looked. I will voice concerns. As Moderator it's my job to keep it alive. Which I do.

If you can't handle the heat. Then don't abuse your powers.

edge
reg

Off the shelf comes to mind. Padded/weighted/highly flared/DB/etc, all came off the shelf.

Its the lack of item loss, which made such an amazing inflation generator.

500 coins for +17 crit weighted katana

now, 5+mil

Service merchants can do a ton too. I can alter for 10 or so in an hour.

In the same hour, 20 enchants, or flares etc.

Or fix/repair stuff.

Treasure system, raffles, etc all add to whats out there.

Khaladon
reg

Why?

Does the average player own 10x items? No.

Does the average players have crit padded stuff over heavy? No.

Does the average GM\Sage\GH have heavy padding or better? Yes

Is crit padded stuff needed to hunt effectively? Yes at higher ages due to manuever attacks.

Is there a lack of padded items for the normal players? yes. Look at fgb. How inflated it is. Its because we need padding at the higher ages.

Now you want to remove all the stuff that allows us to survive the hunting areas.

Does the normal GH\Sage\GM have better then average gear? Yes. They can use points for doing there job to get padding, alters, rpas, experience, deeds, etc.....

Is most of the uber items in the hands of staff? Yes. Look at you Khaladon. You got over 2bil worth of stuff before you became a GM. Mahegh has over a bilion of stuff before he became staff and the list goes on.

Is the GHs\Sages\GMs getting favortism showed with the breakage numbers? Hell yes! Want a list?

We can barely get merchants as is. The Staff is suppose to be overworked with other things. How the hell are you going to be able to have merchants that can get to the majority of the population for repairs? You are not. Just another deception.

Hell. Enchant was suppose to be fixed months ago.

Now we got no enchant system. Will be breaking our items with nobody to repair the quality stuff. Now where is the fun in that? Oh wait. Staff is getting a good laugh.

Padded and weighted things will only be able to fixed by wandering merchants, people. Know those items you you buy that are merchant rechargeable. In 6 years I have seen one merchant recharger! ONLY ONE! An I only heard about it.

Most likely we will have to go to PAY events to get our nice gear repaired.

Look at their history of breaking promises. it speaks for itself.

Care to wager on this????

edge...

reg

So I guess my question is.. how are THOSE items going to be replenished without wasting massive GM resources?

Bianca reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by edge:
Is the GHs\Sages\GMs getting favortism showed with the breakage numbers? Hell yes! Want a list?

edge...

---

Out of curiosity, has this list been certified as to it's authenticity by GSLawyer? reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by GSKhaladon:
Its the lack of item loss, which made such an amazing inflation generator.

---

Gotta disagree with you on this one. Supply and demand.

Lack of item loss would create oversupply, and therefore prices would drop.

Obviously, since there is such inflation - demand is still quite high, therefore dictating that there is insufficient supply.

The only thread to hang on this perspective is that "there are too many silvers" - which again, has nothing to do with demand.

quote:

---

Originally posted by GSKhaladon:
500 coins for +17 crit weighted katana

---

Great! What day/month/year can we expect this to happen? I want to make sure I stock up.
reg

Oh and all the fishspines and fel hafters as well. Hopefully items like forest green brig and fel hafters will be released again on limited quanity and I know that I will be standing there running a buying script trying to buy them all. I might just throw em in the well.

Buckwheet reg

My metal breastplate was strengthened a while back. Now it's normal breakage. A set of brig I had use to be 99\745, now 49\325. My plate was stronger before. Now it's normal. The list goes on. But hey. There is no favoritism, its just my imagination.

You want to see all the elite items in the game. Go sit on HS porch with all the Staffs pupputs...........

I worked hard at merchanting to get some strong items for these changes. Just to have them make them normal because they are mine. Real fair. Oh wait. that don't happen, it's my imagination.

edge

[This message has been edited by edge (edited 10-22-2001).] reg

now after the most recent changes:
golvern embossed kite shields are 52/225
and
veniom-bound rolaren tower shields are 71/225

OR

rolaren banded hunting leathers (double equivalent - strengthened off the shelf) were 55/165

plain ole double was 35/120

and now, the rolaren banded hunting leathers are 47/180
and plain ole double is 35/290

The GMs want to change the breakage of everything. Ok.

But, some consistency for the new numbers would be nice.
reg

Well, I am beginning to believe that breakage will not be so bad, despite the many things pointed out by edge and a few others. It will definately add an interesting flavor to the game.

Is that pineapple pumpkin?

I am looking forward to the change. Besides, if so many people hate the change and everyone quits, then there will be fewer people in the lands and all those high end items won't be so high end anymore. Not to mention much easier to replace. Just a new point of view for ya.

------------------
Caels Onae'Rae
AIM : Caels OnaeRae
MSN : Caels_Onaerae@hotmail.com
ICQ : 91446467
Yahoo!: caels_onaerae reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caels:
Good or Bad. Take two. and... Action!

Well, I am beginning to believe that breakage will not be so bad, despite the many things pointed out by edge and a few others. It will definately add an interesting flavor to the game.

Is that pineapple pumpkin?

I am looking forward to the change. Besides, if so many people hate the change and everyone quits, then there will be fewer people in the lands and all those high end items won't be so high end anymore. Not to mention much easier to replace. Just a new point of view for ya.

---

Heh...good point Caels...however you forget something.

Less people = less money.

Why is Simu wanting less money is the real question. It makes absolutely no sense in a business sense.
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by GSKhaladon:
>Its the lack of item loss, which made such an amazing inflation generator.

500 coins for +17 crit weighted katana

---

Not the best example in the world as we both remember that those were MISPRICED. The GM behind Breighton who made them forgot a couple of zeros. The next day when the longsword equivalent of the same katanas were put out for sale, they were accurately priced.

~Jay (who built his entire fortune on a fortuitous purchase of katanas in bulk)

reg

Write feedback once a day. Until they reply. Then when they reply a week later. Ask then this.

If you can't even have the resources to take care of feedback in a timely manner. How in the hell are you going to have the resources to handle merchants for breakage?

Then say, I wish to cancel all my excess accounts because breakage is ruining my gaming enjoyment. Please contact me when you decide to take it back out. Then I might return if I havn't found a better game to play. Thanks for constantly betraying our trust.

People are gearing up to ice there accounts. I know I am. Why give them extra revenues for putting something that the majority of the players do not want?

When Simutronics losses enough revenue. All the fingers will be pointed at the person that has allowed this--------->Melissa. She will be known as the one who destroyed Gemstone. She is the one that has to ok all the changes.

edge

[This message has been edited by edge (edited 10-23-2001).] reg

Asmodea Drey'Haus reg

Gotta love the blind followers of the staff. I suppose you also think they are real GODS to.

Oh but. I am just a whiner because I want to have a game that is FUN. I don't think when my 60m armor breaks. That will not be fun. Then they tell me. We can't fix because the enchant is to high and the level of padding is to high....sorry.

What really pisses me off the most. Is how my armor became weaker when certain peoples aromr got stronger. Go figure. I guess I DON'T kiss enough ass...........

edge reg

Remember, misses are clashing to. So your shield and weapon will be toast after a few hunts. REAL FUN! But if you are staff. Hey. Can you do me a favor? Sure!

I think people are not to bright if they think GMs are NOT giving themselves better breakage and their buttbuddies.

Look at the history of GM corruption. Speaks for itself.

edge reg

Creating a weapon/armor/shield is far easier than creating a scripted fluff item.

With breakage. its easier to add to the amazing level, knowing its not forever.

When you take that out, its harder to create auctions, since if you can only do X weapons/armors/shields, you need talented scripters to do more.

~Khaladon reg

Feedback is doing an amazing job these days.

Average response time I am told is 7 days and less.

Lets give credit where credit is due. Antavian is working a ton to upgrade and improve feedback.

Swamping the feedback department is an issue they do not control would be counter-productive.

Khaladon reg

Barely? Geez, I seen more merchants in the last 12 months than in my 5+ years of Gemstone.

Imagine if you will, more doing work on enchant, pad, weighting, flares, repairs, etc et al, then just another "deepest black robe which shifts in the shadows as it wails."

In the same X time, you can do Y alters, or Yx2 or more other services.

Khaladon reg

Heh. I did not ever hear that.

Thank you.

I recind my example.

New example.

EG 1998 - Hortingers Wagon, very heavy crit weighted axes. Pretty cheap too for the time.

It can be done.

Khaladon reg

I've heard of a good half dozen in the past few years.

I will bring this concern to the powers that be.

Khaladon reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by GSKhaladon:
>If you can't even have the resources to take care of feedback in a timely manner. How in the hell are you going to have the resources to handle merchants for breakage?

Feedback is doing an amazing job these days.

Average response time I am told is 7 days and less.

Lets give credit where credit is due. Antavian is working a ton to upgrade and improve feedback.

Swamping the feedback department is an issue they do not control would be counter-productive.

Khaladon

---

I would suggest an "amazing job" of assuming and reading into people's communications. My opinions were taken out of context so severely I can't even begin to describe the frustration on my part. I express some viewpoints on some aspects about some facets of policy, never once stating I would violate the same said policy.

This same stellar staff jumped to conclusions, used some sort of mind reading technique and assumed that I was not capable of "understanding policy nor adhere to it" simply because I sent some feedback....

Great service there!

Hiway

reg

Most people think that breakage is a game breaker. You will be having dozens of people leaving unhappy. Loss of revenues there. Plus these people will never return. Once you leave, you most likely leave in anger.

Now you got tons of people leaving and telling everyone NOT to come here.

I can see only negatives and no positive with breakage.

On top of that. All the numbers are screwed up. 1000s of items that have to be individually tweaked. How can you do that within a reasonable amount of time.

I am a mage, I hunt in guarded stance and still get hit constantly hunting on plane 3. I need better then average gear to hunt effectively. Having to repair my crap every couple hunts is NOT fun.

Breakage is a game breaker. To introduce it now it going to ruin the customer base.

But as you can tell. They don't care about customer satisfaction or base. I keep hoping that people will get fired and replaced by someone that will do whats best for the game. The best for the game is what is best for the majority.

edge reg

The average customer will never hunt plane 3.

>Breakage is a game breaker. To introduce it now it going to ruin the customer base.

Time will tell. I am betting it won't.

>But as you can tell. They don't care about customer satisfaction or base. I keep hoping that people will get fired and replaced by someone that will do whats best for the game. The best for the game is what is best for the majority.

Yeah, we don't give a rotten fig about the majority who won't benefit from weighted weapons being in the treasure system, padders in the wilds, flaring merchants, or anything which will actually lead people to not quit, because they cannot get good stuff. :-)

You cannot keep having new stuff without stuff leaving, else the critters need to change and we see how that worked out with sorcery and triple training. :-)

Khal

reg

It sounds like Gemstone is trying to become a have fun while your young, cause when you get old were going to make it hard as hell.

Is this how your trying to get around the game being unbalanced with OLD characters like Angel and Malok? Are you just trying to stop older levels being able to advance? reg

They don't want to keep the long term players it seems. The people that have contributed the most to the lands over the years keep getting screwed over by the changes.

You either go staff or get the hell out it seems.

Sorry to see so no loyality to the people that have been around for years.

Keep showing your true colors. Seems people are realizing they are riding a dead horse....

edge reg

Sonic reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Alfador:
I must say I really was shocked to see that comment about "the average player doesn't hunt 3"... I really don't know what to say for once.

Sonic

---

Welcome to the club Sonic.

Hiway
reg

The difference, I think, is that he is trying to tell you the staff will look at the greatest affect rather than the minority player.

Now, I don't know how he came to the conclusion that the average player will never hit level 3. Maybe he's projecting based on trends of accounts that reroll or cancel before they get that far with their characters. If that's the case, I'd say it would be a pretty fair way to make an estimate.

If he isn't basing his conclusion on any documented and known trends, but rather on thin air and simply trying to make a point, it would leave a sour taste in my mouth as well.

R
reg

Simu needs to do some major modifications to GS, this is obvious and they realize this themselves... but if they want to try and clear up the mistakes that plagued the past, why can't we the players also do the same?

Reallocation isn't such a scary thing to do, if the game plans to be balanced, then they should have no worries of a character reallocating. Some type of reallocation system to help the character rebuild on his past mistakes seems reasonable and appropriate.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

Sonic reg

------------------
AIM: Bombsonengland
In game: Currently... Sorkious, Disrupture, Lavosspawn and Valkar. reg

I try and keep things on the average person. I'll generally avoid posting on anyones specific situtation. I hope thats ok?

>To me, when you say that it sounds like you are saying "Screw the older rifters who cant get by with 4x gear. Let all the new players have fun."

Not at all, I want to create really cool stuff that people can use old and new. I hope breakage leads to a reevaluation of critters as well.

>Except that at some point all the average players will be that old.. And no one will be able to go anywhere.

See above.

>It sounds like Gemstone is trying to become a have fun while your young, cause when you get old were going to make it hard as hell.

Nope, I have some really cool ideas for other systems and advanced age attacks. I also have in mind some sort of advanced Hearthstone manor, sort of a 'millionaire's club' for those over a certain age. Granted, its only in the idea stange and not even written on paper, but one needs long term plans.

>Is this how your trying to get around the game being unbalanced with OLD characters like Angel and Malok? Are you just trying to stop older levels being able to advance?

Nope, I support upper level hunting areas entirely.

Khaladon reg

Plane 3.

And yes, statisically based.

Khaladon reg

>Simu needs to do some major modifications to GS, this is obvious and they realize this themselves...

Yep, breakage, the first 2 phases of growing pains, and many other inititives are needed to fix things and improve things for the long term.

>but if they want to try and clear up the mistakes that plagued the past, why can't we the players also do the same? Reallocation isn't such a scary thing to do, if the game plans to be balanced, then they should have no worries of a character reallocating. Some type of reallocation system to help the character rebuild on his past mistakes seems reasonable and appropriate.

Reallocation. Until all of GP is done, I can't envision it being done, simply because all the changes aren't in.

I'd like to look at the arguments for and against when it is though.

Khaladon
reg

I did miss one thing in my post to Edge, and thus , my apologies.

>I am a mage, I hunt in guarded stance and still get hit constantly hunting on plane 3. I need better then average gear to hunt effectively. Having to repair my crap every couple hunts is NOT fun.

However, until we have some accurate emphirical data on the time/costs of the repairkits/NPC repair shops, we don't know if its not fun, or simply a minor inconvience.

Also, having a spare set of stuff that you can hunt with is great, or sit around an RP a bit, or help a new person.

I guess what I am saying, is until I can see it, and you can see it, we won't know.

Plus, once stuff is breaking, obtaining new amazing items will be a lot easier (and dare I say cheaper!!)

Khal reg

Not at all.

>Edgeleaf definitely has a legitimate concern.

See above post.

>It seems to me that awhile ago Simu really pushed for people to sign up their friends. I assume this is because newbie signups were down.

Not a clue. However, word of mouth marketing is always good, and that promotion is still going.

>Is telling the older players that they aren't important because there are more younger characters going to help this buddy system? Not in my reality.

Who said that? Not me. More resouces are tossed at the highest group of players, but I see no reason that the very eldest are excluded. See above, I support upper level hunting grounds. I'd say as growing pains progresses, we'll see more. (* important safety note, only my opinion, not anything official, I am only CE and have no clue on these things. Just trying to answer posts. Your mileage will vary.)

>Another thing that seems to be neglected... MOST of my characters are fairly low level, however I only really play 1 of them (Well over 99% of my time). Sure, on my account, 40% of the characters are over 50 and 60% are under 50, however 1 is really only ever played. Are these the statistics that Simu is going by? I usually am pretty good of at least taking an educated guess based on statements or facts, but I honestly have no idea about this.

I'd guess that the statistics are based on all characters on all accounts. Would be fairly meaningless otherwise, statisticallty speaking. :-)

Khaladon reg

A side note, to Khaladon- when GP is completely finished, how likely do you think it is that Reallocation will be allowed? Has it been discussed with GMs? Maybe a reallocation with only training could be put into effect, or maybe reallocation of a certain fraction of a persons levels could be put into effect, the factor yet undetermined? It's not like reallocation has to be either ying or yang, there's various degrees of what Simu could allow people to do.

-Zentalin, who doesn't need reallocation anyway reg

I just have one question if you could answer Khaladan. When, if ever, can we expect to see semi-dux implimented. It seems to me that the changes that are needed to help some classes are forgotten about all to often in order for more 'important' changes like GP and breakage.
reg

Sonic reg

Lord Deprav reg

Agreed... and a reason why I support breakage.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

Challenging you say?

It's a challenge to get that type of gear. Which I did. Now it's going to be worthless after 2 hunts? 200m armor. 30m weapon. 80m db cloak, 20m shield.

Ya. Lots of fun there.

I think I worked my ass off getting that equipment. My weapon and armor will never be repaired because the enchant and padding. They made that clear. I spent so many years hunting without nice equipment to just finally get it and get screwed?

Be different if I could repair my own armor or weapon. But I can't. Only a special merchant can. Which the odds are I will never see.

That is not fun. When is it to much of a hassle or to much stress to be fun? I think it's almost there.

I hunt once a month, just to get learning anymore.

Also, it's a hassle to go from the rift and back. Just for every 2 hunts to repair my crap.

Have you ever seen a recharging merchant? I havn't only heard about one. They don't even have the manpower to fix the bugs with the armors.

Hell, I got a scripted cloak that is screwed up and they said. I dont know how to fix scripted items. The creator has to fix it. We will send him a email.

They are going to put in a half ass breakage system. No quality in the lands anymore. They really could care less.

I got a tiara that cant aim it's holy bolt spell. Duh! To hard to fix. So oh well. Your out of luck.

This is what is going to happen. Don't have the time. Deal with it.

Methais has a god auction house. One you design yourself. Been over a year and still not done.

How do they expect to do this? They don't care about it.

They are not fixing the problems that are already there. Enchant? Not done.

God, I can go on and on...............

edge reg

Not easy - just semi-tolerable.

I consider Gemstone to be one of the most time consuming & challenging games in the world. I personally don't know of any other similar product/competitor where it takes the amount of time Gemstone does to reach the oldest reaches of the game.

In general, I see 2 groups of people supporting breakage as it currently stands - the young, and the ultra rich.

The young aren't affected cause they use imflass/vultite, e-blades or 5x stuff.

The ultra rich aren't affected cause who cares if they snap 5 10x sets of equipment, when they have another 10 sets stockpiled in the first place.

The bulk of the people end up carrying the burden for breakage.

Am I opposed to a breakage system going into place? Nope. I agree that stuff needs to break, and leave in order to allow new stuff to be introduced.

BUT, I am opposed to the current breakage system. I think its completely retarded that someone that walks in with a 500 DS into a swarm of kobolds without a shield/weapon in hand - and isn't able to get hit. Only to have him put his weapon/shield in his hand, and all of a sudden the kobolds that weren't able to get close enough to hit in the first place, all of a sudden are able to clash with the weapon/shield??

Heck, even with just 102 Spirit Barrier up, that "creates a 10'x10'x10' of churning air" should be enough protection to prevent clashes from the kobold.
Oh wait, I guess that shortsword that the kobold is using is over 10' long now.

Now it all makes sense. reg

Lord Deprav
All oppinions account for. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by GSKhaladon:
>
I'd guess that the statistics are based on all characters on all accounts. Would be fairly meaningless otherwise, statisticallty speaking. :-)

Khaladon

---

Id think you should get accurate statistics as to who is played, not who exist. Tons of people have locker characters, I have like 12, all under 15 trains. Have something running for bout a month, to moniter who gets in the game, and for how long. What that characters age is etc. This way you get a good idea of which age groups actually play. If you see 30 lvl 1 guys get in rummage through gear, and leave.. Well I wouldnt count them in a statistical report of how many people play the game. Personally I dont think high level age groups (rift age, and near rift age) are as rare as you all make them out to be. The old people are usually the ones who spend the most amount of time in game.

reg

>Hell, I got a scripted cloak that is screwed up and they said. I dont know how to fix scripted items. The creator has to fix it. We will send him a email.

One rule of scripting is that no one but the creator can fix a scripted item. Depending on the script, if you do not know everything about it, you could easilly poof it, the system, or every item in the game. (well, thats extreme, but you know what I mean.)

There are some exceptions, but thats the rule we follow.

Khaladon reg

Honestly, not a clue.

Semi-dux though would be part of GP, if its determined the semis need it to survive with the changes which affect them (again, this is an opinion statement, not policy, just me)

Khaladon reg

I spend most of my time merchanting or playing my youngin.

You also can't possibly compare a Nintendo game to Gemstone.

Gemstone is so complicated to learn. 6 years here and I don't know everything about it. You play a Nintendo game for 6 years...Well you get the point.

One thing I found people that come here say. It's to complicated. To much to learn. When is it to complicated?

I also love logging on, throwing spells on and go hunting. It already takes 15 minutes or more to prepare for a hunt in the rift. Now with breakage I will have to run to town. I can't just log on for a fast hunt anymore. If I die, I am stuck for 30 minutes or more unless I MA to get myself. Sorry to say. No fun in laying around hoping someone rescues you.

I think to much realism is killing the game. I am starting to play UO because of the frustration that is Gemstone.

I think that tons of people will be leaving over breakage. I already know they have lost lots of accounts because of it. Everyone is canceling their spare accounts, going back to a prime account.

This also a FANTASY game. Screw breakage. It is NOT needed or wanted by the majority. It just makes it where the normal people will NEVER have nice gear.

When enchanters come, they will not enchant over 8x. Padders are super expensive. 25m for 2 layers of padding on a 8x set of armor....That on a set of armor that has no padding, it goes to somewhat. They also will not go over masterfully padding.

On top of this. We will maybe see one padder for a day, once a year. Ooh! Great odds.

Just such a great future to look forward to.

STRESS STRESS STRESS!

No fun in stress.

edge

[This message has been edited by edge (edited 10-27-2001).] reg

If I can sell off enough stuff by the 4th another account which has been premi since the move to the web will also be closed.

Thats going to start saving me 60$ a month and I am still selling off stuff. I plan on getting down to the essentials only and banking all my coins unless I must spend them. I will wait untill a merchant comes that sells cheap 4-5x shields and I am going to use ebladed handaxes all the time.

Hopefully if all goes as planned I will have about 125m silver in the bank after all the stuff is sold and I will only be spending 30$ a month on the game. Three acounts down from seven. From 170$ a month down to 30$. If breakage is even less fun then that I will probably just cancel my accounts and wait for Blizzard's new game.

I just wanted to also point to a flaw in the "it gets silvers out of the lands" statement.

For any bladeswinger who actually takes the time, you can always find things to hunt that don't clash, animals things like that.

Currently my level 45 rogue will never loose items in the hunting grounds I will be in untill the rift.

45-60 Banshees and Sents.
60-65 Red Thraks
65-80 Lava Golems
80-rift Vipers Boars and Ogres.

Ogres swing a weapon, however untill I can use guild skills on them effectively I will just run from them. So I don't see that big of a deal for my rogues, atleast untill they change hiding and ambushing.

Either that I will just have to start using an older character as a zombie and just bind or stun everything before it can even swing at me.

Buckwheet

reg

Only ne'cares have anything with respectable breakage in the rift.

Everything else has pretty crappy breakage.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by edge:
On top of this. We will maybe see one padder for a day, once a year. Ooh! Great odds.

---

I'm fairly certain that the merchants that do come will be premium only.
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Buckwheet:
Currently my level 45 rogue will never loose items in the hunting grounds I will be in untill the rift.

45-60 Banshees and Sents.
60-65 Red Thraks
65-80 Lava Golems
80-rift Vipers Boars and Ogres.

Ogres swing a weapon, however untill I can use guild skills on them effectively I will just run from them. So I don't see that big of a deal for my rogues, atleast untill they change hiding and ambushing.

Either that I will just have to start using an older character as a zombie and just bind or stun everything before it can even swing at me.

Buckwheet

---

Just like to point out that you can't hunt thraks without being around pyros, which will most likely be the critter that is hardest on weapons and shields. Even if you aren't hunting a creature that will create clashes, given enough time, bad luck WILL hit.

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by LordKranar:
Just wanted to point out...

Only ne'cares have anything with respectable breakage in the rift.

Everything else has pretty crappy breakage.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard

---

Lunatics swing a twisted kris, 80/190

Witches swing a morning star half the time, 70/175 I believe they were

N'ecares swing falchions and maces on 3, falchion is 75/160, mace is 65/250.

Lost souls swing scythes on 4, 75/180, ball and chain on 5, 75/175.

Looks like there are several things with more respectable breakage than n'ecares.

reg

Making a 4 mile paperclip chain is time consuming, it is not challenging.

Gemstone currently takes about as much physical video game skill as making toast, and as much mental skill as reading the wall street journal and passing 6th grade math.

Anyone that can make toast, read the wall street journal, and has passed the 6th grade can reach the age cap in gemstone.

If breakage ups the mental requirement to highschool, well I'm sorry for all the fast food employees who cannot reach the age cap.

'lood
they don't even have to count change anymore, the register flings out the appropriate coinage. I fully expect chimpanzees to take over the fast food work force by 2006, get your picket signs ready...
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by kelood:
Anyone that can make toast, read the wall street journal, and has passed the 6th grade can reach the age cap in gemstone.

---

Taking this view - you don't even need that. Just create a large script, send it to your 1 year old nephew, and have him drop a rock on the keyboard to get it started.

From a more realistic perspective - I don't think there is anyone that knows 100% of everything relating to all formulas/code that exists in Gemstone.

Mastering Gemstone is challenging. Finishing Gemstone is time consuming. reg

Look at the latest unreal or quake edition. The 3-d engine mathmatics are just rediculously complex, yet the game can be played by 4 year olds.

Final Fantasy Tactics, all numbers in that game are fairly complex, and its also one of the "hardest" rpg's I have played, but its by no means a difficult game(nor time consuming by most rpg standards).

As far as gemstone goes, yeah, nobody really knows all the formula's exactly, but thats not to say gemstone is a hard game to learn, or that the concepts are difficult to learn.

Even redux, a pretty complicated mathmatical formula, is very easy to understand. Just because you can't follow the differential calculas envolved in my little write up on it, doesn't mean you can't fully utilize/understand how redux effects you, how to train for it, and how it effects the game as a whole, etc.

And thats one of the most complicated ones. The other formula's are basic math , multiplying and deviding. Like I said, 6th grade to highschool stuff.

If your talking about puzzles. Yeah, some of them might give some people a bit of trouble, but they are by no means even as difficult as your standard adventure/puzzle game. And most of them aren't even an integral part of the game.

Yeah, its a little more complicated then pong, but its by no means hard or complicated.

There are tons of people who have completely mastered quake, no where every weapon upgrade/ secret area is, beat the game in record times, could finish it with one hand, etc.-- but they have no clue how the light sourcing works, what hardware t&l is, what bump mapping means, how the bullet trajectory is calculated, if its even calculated as a projectile or not, etc. etc. etc.

'lood
who has not yet "mastered" pong. reg

You ever been in the sheru workshop? Notice that worktable how it has the orb. Solve that yet? OR have you found the invisible one elsewhere that is etched with demons?

how about the porticullis in sherus. Nobdy I know has figured out how to open it. Lock is over -1600 and it had a trap.

Have you ever figured how to get into the dome in fog beetles?

Have you figured how to open the doors in stronghold with using 407 or bashing?

How about that ring in stronghold. Figured that out?

Have you found the treasure room in the Citadal? Figured how to cross the bridge to the Citidal without help?

I can think of tons upon tons of things I have not solved in Gemstone.

You can't possible compare it to a video game. This game is endless and always growing.

But to just survive is becoming to hard for beginners to even waste their time. You need tons of spells or a slave. Now with breakage they will not stand a chance unless somebody else supports them. Or the other option is to buy coins or items off of ebay to just have a starting chance anymore.

Plus, players are mean to new people. I mean real mean.

edge

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by edge:
But to just survive is becoming to hard for beginners to even waste their time. You need tons of spells or a slave. Now with breakage they will not stand a chance unless somebody else supports them. Or the other option is to buy coins or items off of ebay to just have a starting chance anymore.

Plus, players are mean to new people. I mean real mean.

edge

---

This one part I have to disagree with, my plat character is level 14..halfling sorcerer..trained for stat growth etc..you CAN'T possibly suck any worse than I do right now and I have in my trainings previous...Yes, I'm forced to underhunt, and will have to until about level 40, but thats the choice I made and I am sticking with it. I'm doing fine all alone...my character is disliked by most anyway cause I choose to eat the bodies of the dead etc, which really pisses people. I already got some that won't heal me etc. Although, I do have a lot of hunting experience from Gemstone in prime, I still would be able to accomplish what I'm doing currently with or without the knowledge I have attained. Breakage might pose a different story, but thus far I'm doing all right for myself.

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa

reg

You are just starting over. reg

Nope... Edgeleaf's point is correct.

New people would mean new people in Elanthia, not new players.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

Sonic reg

This topic is one of the things that Edward was notorious for: Sleeping newbies.

Of course to compare Edward to anyone else is pretty tough :P reg

NPC repair merchants will only fix up to 5x items. Now the padding or weighted items it will fix is on a sliding scale. that you can get 4x somewhat npc repaired, 3x heavy..etc.

Sounds like fun huh? People with 6x or better gear...get bent(unless you are GM\GH\Sage). Find a wandering merchant....Forest green brig...tough luck. Find a wandering merchant.

How often will we see these merchants? Ya right.

Gotta love this reasonable system....ya right

For all the people that have nothing. This makes it where you have no chance to have anything. Glad you wanted this so much.

All I got to say about my stuff....locker time. I can hunt with 4x stuff. Just need to stock up on deeds is all.

edge

reg

Sonic reg

reg

http://www.bbb.org/bbbcomplaints/Welcome.asp

Last time Simu tried to pull something on me I filed a complaint and after about 2 weeks I had credit with Simu and the problem was solved.

We've all been paying for a standard when it comes to GS. Now they're trying to change the standard, and I for one don't want to give up the game we all love to play.

http://www.bbb.org/bbbcomplaints/Welcome.asp

Show them that you DON'T like the changes and file a complaint.. What's the worst that can happen? Might just get what we want for once, just attack the business at it's soft spot.

Complaints stay on a companies record after they're filed... Maybe if they get enough of them someone will notice.

http://www.bbb.org/bbbcomplaints/Welcome.asp

Enjoy.
Phear

PS. GM Krylan is worthless.

[This message has been edited by Phear (edited 11-05-2001).] reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Phear:
If you don't like what's happening file an official complaint with the Better Business Bureau.

---

You related to GSLawyer by any chance? Just curious.
reg