The Players Corner Archive

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa reg

It would have to depend on how you are roleplaying it and how graphic you are getting, Zan.

If it's simply that cannibalism is against policy, then I would refer you to the Official boards, because Witcheaven constantly refers to the fact that she is a cannibal. If you have to stop, then she should have to stop.

Somehow tho, I would have to say it must be the former if the complaint is that you are grossing people out. Can you cite an example of what it is you are doing?

Personally, I have no problems with cannibals. Human, the OTHER white meat.

Aerienne reg

Rusval
Read your bible reg

'lood
never did get around to taking those lessons... reg

It does seem a little odd that a ride that graphic is approved, but someone playing a cannibal raises eyebrows.

And Rusval is right, as an ambushing rogue that goes for the head, eyes, and neck, some of the damage I do to critters (or my hunting partner... oops!) has me feeling a tad faint!

Summer

[This message has been edited by Summerlyn (edited 11-05-2001).] reg

Not only was I not told to cease and decist, but Hallowell played along with it and we had a grand time!

Hrrmph and humbug to anyone who can't handle meat-eaters in the game. Are they gonna start offering macrobiotic foods in the merchant shops and get rid of all the rolton stew now?

Bah!
reg

Sonic reg

That should say it all. Less people there, GMs can moniter it much easier. They will see everything you do, as well as the reactions. Obviously someone didnt like your cannibalism.

Although, just because someone doesn't like it doesn't mean it should be disallowed.

All I can say as of now is that you should be allowed to act however you wish within certain boundaries. Just don't go too far.

The biggest thing here is how you RP'ed being a cannibal. I think examples of your RP habits would shed alot of light on whether its right or wrong. reg

(Zarosa slowly strips some flesh off the already wounded abdomen of SOandSO.)

(Zarosa brings the bloody flesh up to his mouth, and dangles it in front of his mouth)

(Zarosa extends his tongue and quickly consumes the meat)

I don't think that is really bad at all...compared to some of the things I was planning like...

(Zarosa sticks his face in the open abdomen cavity of SoandSO, ravenously ripping away flesh with his teeth)

etc etc

heh

Mike

Zanagan/arosa reg

Lord Deprav
"Tasty chicken isn't it? reg

Frankly, the response from my character were you to do any of the above to his body would be to hunt you down, boil you, rinse and repeat till he never saw your character again.

And hes a nice guy compared to a couple of the characters in Plat.

~M~ reg

im awesome reg

Gotta love the Disneyfication.

Very creative Zanagan.

Curious who would really assist. Say we are quitting the game if you allow him to eat people.

Oh well.

edge

reg

Sonic reg

Lord Deprav reg

I need to appologize to you. I honestly thought that you could not roleplay your way out of a paper bag. I can see that I'm wrong.

I applaud what you were attempting to do and see no problems with it. Damn Simu and their ever changing policies.

I've been considering Plat for a while now, even before the price drop, and you've just pushed me a little closer. I'll look forward to meeting you cannibal, even if he is toned down.

KG reg

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa reg

gaze im thinkin gms gotta set a few things strait reg

Lord Deprav reg

I should of known Mike/Zanagan/Zarosa would come here for props from his band of malcontented homies! He who is so quick to report, gets stung by others doing the same thing. Funny!

Keep the jokes coming. reg

quote:

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gets stung by others doing the same thing

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Zanagan reports people for roleplaying their characters?

'lood
certified malcontent homie

[This message has been edited by kelood (edited 11-06-2001).] reg

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa

I do have my suspicions on who MIGHT of reported my RP, and for no reason other than to annoy me due to RL situations that might of angered the person and then this person telling their plat friends to assist them in their little immature act. This is just speculation of course, but a distinct possibility.

reg

Aerienne puts on a badge that reads, "malcontented homie."

I'll consider it an honor since the reverse is apparently being a person such as yourself.

Zanagan, I think it's a great idea and very creatively done. I like how you capitalized on the wounds that were already there. If you keep it within the bounds of ::cough:: "good taste," there should be no basis for GM intervention. After all, the act itself is graphic enough, without causing people to turn green by going overboard on description. There is definitely a difference to most people as to what they inflict on beasts and what is inflicted upon their character by other characters.

act chews on his savory morsel with a look of delight upon his face.

It gets the point across without the gore.

As a historical back up, there are several cannibalistic tribes that have been around for as long as the oral tradition goes back. There have also been groups that became cannibals out of need - Donner Party, as well as some other incidences of isolation and shipwreck. There have also been various groups who have worshipped the darker side of life that have performed acts of cannibalism.

Who is to say your character wasn't raised by a barbaric people from the outlying lands? And aren't the Dhe'nari prone to either some form of cannibalism or blood drinking?

And Summer, that ride was DISGUSTING. It REALLY needed an exit lever. It took about 30 minutes or more to get through it. Sacru and I cowered our way through. It was a good thing I didn't eat before we went on it. And the fact that I missed out on Lilli's roses was just an additional peeve.

Aerienne reg

Also. All you had to do is log off, then back on and you was off the ride and back to the beginning. I found out when I got booted.

Curious Zanagan. Did you get told a warning would be the next step, if you continued with your roleplay? Also, did you write feedback?

edge

[This message has been edited by edge (edited 11-06-2001).] reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Aerienne:
If you keep it within the bounds of ::cough:: "good taste," there should be no basis for GM intervention.

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::Sirens::

Ma'am, Gnomad, Pun Police. I'm afraid you're in severe violation of pun statue 23.1 (c). I'm letting you off with a warning this time. reg

------------------
~Nindy
"Don't take this the wrong way." reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Nindy:
Can I be a homie, too?!

---

Nope--No Tribe fans allowed, sorry. reg

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa reg

Perrcie: "any one out there who can remove my Disease?"
Anathema: "Perrcie, I told you not to get too close to Jura!"
Rainne: "In theif gnolls if I fall."
Perrcie: "ye close enought to stop it Ana?"
Anathema: "Is anyone close enough to stopping her yet?"
Gutter: "I'm just drinkin all the diseased blood."
Uthread: "Evenin all"

*********************************************

Uh oh!!!

Kismet, I think you should report this immediately.

[This message has been edited by Weedmage Princess (edited 11-06-2001).] reg

I exploded the solar plexus of a snow madrinol today and was rewarded with 'a shower of blood.' Gore is cool to a certain extent. I think disease was a bit overdone, but I'm not complaining. Just because I pay my 10 bucks a month I shouldn't get the right to complain about everything I don't see fit. That's just stupid. Unless it's a real distraction to you, just suck it up and shut the hell up. We do have a thing called SQUELCH you know. I squelched a guy named Bumpnose because I don't think he could have annoyed me anymore if he tried. Sure I ended up poaching the hell out of him I bet, but do I care? No, big deal. I'd recommend the reporter try that avenue first.

Sonic reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Zanagodly:
Yes this was a platinum character, and I wasn't the first cannibal to exist there either. An example of what I would normally do....

(Zarosa slowly strips some flesh off the already wounded abdomen of SOandSO.)

(Zarosa brings the bloody flesh up to his mouth, and dangles it in front of his mouth)

(Zarosa extends his tongue and quickly consumes the meat)

I don't think that is really bad at all...compared to some of the things I was planning like...

(Zarosa sticks his face in the open abdomen cavity of SoandSO, ravenously ripping away flesh with his teeth)

etc etc

heh

Mike

Zanagan/arosa

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The two immediate reasons I can think of that would explain why you were asked to stop is this:

- Someone (or several people) reported that watching the above actions made this uncomfortable and ruined their game play. (If enough people reported, it could be seen as disruptive behavior or a violation of Policy 3.)

- Someone (or several people) objected to being "forced" to interact with your character in this manner, without their permission. Perhaps they didn't care to have their flesh stripped and eaten, or didn't enjoy feeling "forced" to react/interact to/with this particular kind of roleplaying.

Those are the main two reasons I can see right off the bat, without having been there to see it or hear the reports.

--A.
reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Lord Deprav:
They allow Gay marriages in Gemstones? Now that is some of the worst role play I have ever heard of. Gemstones is a midevil game. According to all history books there never were any Gay marriages because THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED. Now I have nothing against gay people today, but that is not very good role play. Even if they had affairs that is fine because it is proven that affairs happened but never marriages. Like I said Zanagan, if you role play something like that, then they are in a wrong.

Lord Deprav

---

First of all, they aren't called "gay marriages" because the word "gay" meaning homosexual is OOG (as is homo, homosexual, faggot, lesbian, dyke, and anything else that means homosexual and is a modern pejorative for that word).

We don't call them anything other than marrages, that take place between two people who love each other, and harm no one by doing so.

There was no word for homosexuality back in the middle ages, because it was very much accepted as a normal part of the lifestyle. There are even recorded documentation of medieval rituals, much like marriage ceremonies, performed between members of the same sex, called "the rite of adelphopoiesis."

It wasn't until the about the late 16th century, that homosexuality came under disdain by a few of the powerful in politics and the rising clout of Christianity.

I've already done this research before, for those who complained on our boards after one such same sex marriage. We find it's perfectly in-genre -- as well as goes along with our Terms and Conditions that we don't discriminate against, among many things, sexual preference and/or orientation.

--A. reg

quote:

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Originally posted by GMAndraste:

- Someone (or several people) objected to being "forced" to interact with your character in this manner, without their permission. Perhaps they didn't care to have their flesh stripped and eaten, or didn't enjoy feeling "forced" to react/interact to/with this particular kind of roleplaying.

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This is a total crock. If someone doesn't wish to interact with someone who is being perfectly IC because they feel uncomfortable, shouldn't even be playing gemstone 3 (a roleplaying game I believe?), in the first place. There are people you are gonna like, and there are people you are not going to like in gemstone,irl..etc etc, so why can't people just suck it up and play. I should hope they wouldn't like their flesh being ripped off their body, if I was in their shoes, I'd be really mad too, I wouldn't cry to a GM about it, I'd get my revenge or do everything in my power to ignore/stay away from such a person.

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Weedmage Princess:
******On The Plat Amulet The Day After******

Perrcie: "any one out there who can remove my Disease?"
Anathema: "Perrcie, I told you not to get too close to Jura!"
Rainne: "In theif gnolls if I fall."
Perrcie: "ye close enought to stop it Ana?"
Anathema: "Is anyone close enough to stopping her yet?"
[b]Gutter: "I'm just drinkin all the diseased blood."
Uthread: "Evenin all"

*********************************************

Uh oh!!!

Kismet, I think you should report this immediately.

[This message has been edited by Weedmage Princess (edited 11-06-2001).][/B]

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Thanks for the heads up! But I wasn't one of the poor fragile flowers who reported Zarosa and I won't report that either. Sorry, try again!

Keep the comedy coming though.

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by GMAndraste:
The two immediate reasons I can think of that would explain why you were asked to stop is this:

- Someone (or several people) reported that watching the above actions made this uncomfortable and ruined their game play. (If enough people reported, it could be seen as disruptive behavior or a violation of Policy 3.)

- Someone (or several people) objected to being "forced" to interact with your character in this manner, without their permission. Perhaps they didn't care to have their flesh stripped and eaten, or didn't enjoy feeling "forced" to react/interact to/with this particular kind of roleplaying.

Those are the main two reasons I can see right off the bat, without having been there to see it or hear the reports.

--A.

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Andraste you truly crack me up.

How now brown cow.... game integrity. Perhaps if the policy actually held fast to some basic fundamentals of logical game mechanics and reasonability perhaps the game would not attract this mysterious threshold that trips the almighty alarms at Simuland when a group of total roleplay morons cry foul. What exact number is this again?

Oh wait I forgot that can't be revealed because it would expose Simuland's and GM incompetence erm I mean NDA.

I like your "forced" roleplay when you intervene with GM made interuptions to roleplay. You excel at this sort of forced interaction with your NPC or GM inserted "hints". God forbid allowing people to actually explore some avenues of roleplay that actually depart from the "I love everyone" genre without you butting in.

I simply never believed your "disruption" penalty flag. A professional game that actually had some loyalty to roleplay would be more hands free in spoken interactions. Like someone said they can walk off too.

Andraste you truly define hypocritical in my book. (note-see his/her/it's comment in another place here on this same message board recently).

Gemstone is a game of chit chatty dingbats in my book nowadays. No real true dramatic encounters can or will happen without some namby pamby no spine snert typing "report so and so is disrupting and offending me. I do not like that they are interupting my time to watch sleep routines go by on my monitor while one of my 4 accounts is absorbing experience"........ ::yawn::

Hiway- peeks in and walks away muttering "some things will never change"

reg

Andraste - I have to say, where is the line of forced roleplay?

My dead body was being ripped to shreds by a beast, a troll if I remember right. Another used my body as a sled. Is this forced interaction?

Someone nodded to me on the street. Is this forced interaction?

I've constantly got a stream of people wandering up to my freaking table (and man oh man, do I HATE that!), demanding that I entertain them or allow them to sit at my table while I am chatting with friends. Can I report them? If I were in IRL restaurant, I could call over the waiter and have them removed...

This is a ROLEplaying game, not a ROLLplaying game, or so we are told.

There are so many ways a person could respond to a cannibal feasting on the dead: *Screaming, wailing, moaning...
*Begging people to help them...
*Creating a posse to hunt down the little cannibal...
*Claiming to be infected with the "disease,"

Like I said, as long as he reins in the gore, and focuses on his own characters actions and reactions, I think this is acceptable. Forcing others to act/react thru using the cannibal's act verbs would be absolutely wrong.

In reading the boards, I read a lot of posts begging for roleplay opportunities. Here is an opportunity, player created. It may not be the happy golden sunny concept, but there is a darker side to Gemstone that I think cannot, and should not, be ignored. Have you ever read the Gods' text? How can you justify banning a cannibal after reading the "Official" information about the gods?

Aerienne reg

quote:

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Originally posted by GMAndraste:
The two immediate reasons I can think of that would explain why you were asked to stop is this:

- Someone (or several people) reported that watching the above actions made this uncomfortable and ruined their game play. (If enough people reported, it could be seen as disruptive behavior or a violation of Policy 3.)

---

Fair enough, however as pointed out many times before, the description of the critter deaths tend to be at the least just as, if not more graphic and gory than the terms Mike uses to describe Zarosa's actions. "Massive blow turns head into a red spray" "Vitreous fluid spews forth, see ya!" "large gash to right arm, several muscles exposed" comes to mind right off the top of my head. Have you ever gotten complaints about those before? And if so, how were they dealt with? I know they weren't taken out cause the same crit messages I get now, I was getting back in 1996. Also about the majority, I think it was maybe 5 people who expressed their concerns about what he's doing--there are an average of atleast 60 players on every night, and around 25 in the morning, not making 5 the majority. Now I'm not saying it's the case here, but it's things like this that make people say "GM Favortism."

quote:

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Originally posted by GMAndraste:
- Someone (or several people) objected to being "forced" to interact with your character in this manner, without their permission. Perhaps they didn't care to have their flesh stripped and eaten, or didn't enjoy feeling "forced" to react/interact to/with this particular kind of roleplaying.

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Fair enough again, but the party feeling they are being "forced" to be eaten could through a whisper or IM, say "Listen, I object to this type of RP, blah blah, if this is what you're going to do fine, but I don't want my character involved." and that would be the end of it. It would be an issue if Mike turned around and continued doing it anyway despite the person asking him not to.

Considering everything mentioned above, the whole thing is a bit ridiculous and either A) These people are just a bunch of babies or B) (and I do tend to agree more with this theory) This is a case of an extremely childish and/or mentally unstable person who has a problem with Mike IRL and is taking it into Gemstone just to be spiteful.

[This message has been edited by Weedmage Princess (edited 11-07-2001).] reg

I don't like a lot of gore, and as I said before, that ride at Ebon Gate, and the messages I see when I ambush a critter are the goriest things I've seen. I can think of many ways to respond to Zanagan's "fetish", and it would sure make for an interesting, and unusual encounter!

Personally, in a text-based game, I think anything (within reasonable limits) that causes a reaction...laughter, anger, surprise, is kind of a good thing. It makes you think and feel, and not just sit there reading lines and lines of scroll.

Summer reg

I think that if your character is brought into a line of RP that you don't like, by another character they are forcing the interaction/RP. If you are laying dead someplace and the only other person there starts to RP they are eating you, you don't really have a choice in the matter do you?

Another example of forced interaction/RP:

Zarosa has a snack on dead Maali.

Once Maali is alive again, he kills Zarosa.

Maali keeps killing Zarosa until Zarosa isn't seen anymore.

Now, once the Player behind Zarosa figures out that Maali is intent on Deeding him, does he report the Forced interaction/RP, or does he consider it a fair reply to his line of RP?

Or were the characters Zarosa was dining upon ones who couldn't do anything to him IC for it?

Personally, I could not care less if you want to play cannibal. However, if Maali were to see it happen, plan on a lot of deaths...and don't go sobbing to the GM's when it happens.

~M~ reg

But you could whisper, even while yer dead. Don't do that please.

Wow. End of conflict. He now knows not to do that to you. You don't wish to RP with him.

But instead. Nobody said anything and only did this...REPORT>>>CRY CRY CRY CRY.

Hrm...Go figure. There was a easy solution without without tons of conflict. But that was to easy.

But we let the few babies ruin it for everyone.

edge

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by edge:
Why do you have to deed him on sight? That is taking it to far.

But you could whisper, even while yer dead. Don't do that please.

Wow. End of conflict. He now knows not to do that to you. You don't wish to RP with him.

But instead. Nobody said anything and only did this...REPORT>>>CRY CRY CRY CRY.

Hrm...Go figure. There was a easy solution without without tons of conflict. But that was to easy.

But we let the few babies ruin it for everyone.

edge

---

Of course we do. Just like how every other decision is made in GS. Listen to the babies who find things unfair and things will change. reg

I certainly don't think that to deed a person is fair, maybe a single death, but then it depends on the situation. I don't think that you should kill someone for eating from your already dead corpse, it seems absurd to me because you are already dead. Now if they killed you, and then ate your flesh, I could see where that constitutes revenge, and I have no problems with that.

I believe Zarosa's actions were acceptable for more than the previous reasons as well. He did not force them to feel anything over it, he simply ate the dying flesh. If it sickened them that much in RL then they lack intestinal fortitude, especially not enough to hunt creatures with. Also, he did not ruin their fun of the game, they chose to be insulted, if they even were (as pointed out in a previous post, some people just like the attention). It's all about perspective. People can't piss you off unless you allow them too.

------------------
Caels Onae'Rae
AIM : Lord Caels

Emails:
caels_onaerae@hotmail.com
caels@gsplayers.com reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Maali:
OK, seems to be some confusion about what "Forced" interaction/RP is.

I think that if your character is brought into a line of RP that you don't like, by another character they are forcing the interaction/RP. If you are laying dead someplace and the only other person there starts to RP they are eating you, you don't really have a choice in the matter do you?

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You sure do--like this:
whisper zarosa Listen, I don't really like your whole cannibal storyline, and I rather you not eat off my character, as I don't want any part of this storyline. Thanks.

Like previously said, whisper works, even when dead, so if it's THAT much of an issue for you, you can stop it right there with little effort and no hassle without disrupting the storyline/gameplay for others.

quote:

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Originally posted by Maali:
Another example of forced interaction/RP:

Zarosa has a snack on dead Maali.

Once Maali is alive again, he kills Zarosa.

Maali keeps killing Zarosa until Zarosa isn't seen anymore.

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Is this what you plan on doing? If so, that's just as bad as the babies who reported if not worse.

quote:

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Originally posted by Maali:
Now, once the Player behind Zarosa figures out that Maali is intent on Deeding him, does he report the Forced interaction/RP, or does he consider it a fair reply to his line of RP?

Or were the characters Zarosa was dining upon ones who couldn't do anything to him IC for it?

Personally, I could not care less if you want to play cannibal. However, if Maali were to see it happen, plan on a lot of deaths...and don't go sobbing to the GM's when it happens.

~M~

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I don't know, I wouldn't consider that forced roleplay. I wouldn't consider that ANY kind of roleplaying at all. I would consider that you being a bully, not liking something so you totally wipe it out of the game. Like Caels said, I agree it might warrant a pretty nasty confrontation in character between the two parties involved and even the death of Zarosa, but to deed him is pretty pathetic. What you're saying is by that action is "It's my way or the highway, I don't like this particular style of roleplaying or this element existing in Gem, and since my character is stronger than his right now, I have the ability to abuse my power and rid of it from the game. I am also pretty selfish because I really don't care that there are quite a few people also playing that enjoy this little storyline--all that matters is *I* don't like it."

Here's a question for any GM reading, or anyone who would know. Say no one reported Zarosa but he ate off of Maali and instead of handling it through one of the suggested methods, (i.e, whisper, etc) he deeded him. What would happen? Would Maali be locked out? I am not sure if this is the mindset/intent of Maali's player or not but I am sure there are some more "immature" types out there who think/feel that way, and I wonder how they would be dealt with.

reg

Does he whisper to people before he starts eating them and ask if its OK?

Did he try and eat any folks older than him or did he "bully", as you called it, people younger than him?

Looks like you folks are promoting a double standard to me.

~M~ reg

What double standard?

You seem like you are trying to defend deeding someone. That is BS and you know it.

The simple fact as Zanagan said. NOBODY asked him to stop. You might want to try and get your facts straight.

How can you stop something that bothers people if they don't ask you to?

edge reg

How can you possibly compare RPing a cannibal eating a corpse to deeding someone into nonexistence?

That is like comparing me kicking you to you killing me. One is a gross annoyance, the other is death most permanent.

And just so you know, my examples of "forced interaction" were intended to be obviously ridiculous. I didn't think I would have to SPELL IT OUT, but since you make it necessary...

My examples were intended to be ones that do force interaction on the part of my character, but are ones that are intended to be part of the game, according to the GMs. Otherwise critters would not force us to interact. We would not have 1k people in game at the same time, it'd be line up and take a turn or pay $50 at Best Buy. And they would not have taken the invite barrier away from tables.

I see no double standard.

Do you usually whisper to people before saying, "Hello?"

Do you whisper, "Is it okay if I smile at you?" before doing any actions?

Do you ask if it is okay before you deed someone?

Aerienne
reg

Yes, let's use me as a target, because it's oh so much easier than coming up with a valid reason or argument!

Seriously, maybe the players were too horrified to ask, maybe they DID ask, but we'll never know for sure if they did unless they post their comments here. What I do know, now, is that it appears several people reported it and the GMs watching the scenario agreed with them. I'm sure the reasoning why was explained to Zarosa/Zanagan, and if it wasn't, then he should definitely ask for one.

As for consentual and non-consentual, I just love when people equate what critters do here with what players do.

When you signed up for the game and HOPEFULLY read all the game information before you begin, you DO know what to expect, and in entering the game, you agree to Policy when you start, as well as the Terms and Conditions of the game, AND what the game offers. Where in there did it say that things would be fair, equal, and players could do the same thing critters and/or NPCs can do? Is there some other game out there where this is allowed to happen? And what is their player game base?

You agreed to interact with the critters in the manner employed by the game when you enter. You know to expect NPCs and invasions.

It's the same kind of weak excuse that has been used for the argument about why vulgarities should be acceptable here, when you have all these pretty speeches about how the "violence" in the game is more likely to corrupt young innocents than vulgar speech or lewd behavior. Therein is where the line between fantasy and reality is drawn. Critters are fiction, just game mechanics. What players say and do falls more on the side of reality, since players control their speech and actions. Most people won't be traumatized by a game mechanic. They CAN be traumatized by someone's actions and words.... harassment, sexual harassment... some of you posting here know this firsthand.

Kids need a parent to open an account (account holder or owner must be 18, not necessarily the player). The parent is responsible for reading about the content of the game and checking the game out, just like every other adult that opens an account. No one is forcing the parent, the child, or the adult to play this game, especially if they find it objectionable! And what is deemd objectionable is certainly up to Simutronics, not a democratic vote of the majority!

Please... this game is so much less violent than most other video games out there on the market, and even some of the television shows and movies kids see these days. The fact that Simutronics has deemed some kinds of language and behavior as unacceptable is well within their right... and if you don't agree with it, you can write to Feedback. No one is forcing people to play this game, but those here playing the game are expected to abide by our Policy.

Again, this all comes down to... you know what you are getting into with the game environment provided by the mechanics and the NPCs and events.

The role of players in the game is governed by the Policy you agreed to the first time and every time you log in. If your game play with other players is reported as disruptive, objectionable, or offensive -- thus ruining the enjoyment of others -- then you could be asked to modify it, especially if it violates policy. If you disagree that your actions are as described above, you can always write to Feedback, which has in the last couple of months, been responding within 7-10 days.

--A. reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Maali:
Did he try and eat any folks older than him or did he "bully", as you called it, people younger than him?

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Hmm, actually Zarosa has been eating the flesh of dead people since he was roughly 2nd or 3rd level, so I would have to say that yes at times he's eaten people who were equal to him or older. My guess (as someone who's character is directly influenced by Zarosa hence spending a lot of time RPing with him) would be that his choice was based more on "who was dead around him" as opposed to "what level is this person."

quote:

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Originally posted by Maali:
Looks like you folks are promoting a double standard to me.

~M~

---

Aaahhh I totally disagree with that on just about every possible level I can-- I'll agree to disagree with you there..but since you're on about double standards, here's something that's bugged me since I first learned about the reports for Zarosa's cannibalism. I started playing Plat in the summertime, and had the pleasure of RPing with one of whom I would consider to be the most interesting characters in Plat, Sot..a known eater of humans and elves. (maybe other races, too) Two of my characters have been "victims" of his cannibalism, one was traumatized by his "picking up her severed leg and ravenously gnawing on it" and was terrified of him. He almost ALWAYS threatened to cook her everytime he saw her. Another one of my characters had her severed limb picked up by Sot and taken to "His Kitchen" which was an actual room at the Flea Festival..to be put in his soup..being a maniac, she was flattered and wanted him to use any other limbs she might lose. I can't help but think that no one ever gave him any flack, I doubt he ever got reported (did he?) and I have to wonder if you would attempt to deed him had he ever engaged in a cannibalistic act in front of you...so what's this about a double standard?

reg

I have to say, I very much disagree with your post. I usually respect your opinion. I don't think my comments can in anyway be construed as bashing you. You offered some ideas as to why he was told to stop and I appreciate knowing what the offical response might be, even if I don't agree with it! And I do think several of us are coming up with valid arguments/opinions on this topic: "Your thoughts on this style of roleplay."

First off, I equal violence in Gemstone from critters to be equal to violence from other players. Gore is gore in my book. You want to talk about graphic, take a ride on the Tunnel of Love. I wish I knew then that if I exited, and reentered, it would have given me the pass to freedom.

While I do take what happens to my character a lot more personally when it is coming from other players, I expect that when I enter Elanthia, that I should expect the unexpected. Within certain bounds, I expect to be able to roleplay my way out of any situation, and if need be, I can go Out of Character in whispers, or if need be, I report.

Perhaps I am missing something here. My understanding is that nobody ever confronted Zarosa about his actions directly to complain before the GM stepped in.

Also, I come to the Player's Corner to read other people's OPINIONS, and to voice my own. I have no expectations that Simutronics is going to care about my opinion, quite frankly. Zanagan asked for our opinions on the situation. I tendered mine. I read others. I disagree with some, and agree with others. I think feedback is a waste of time. I have no need to spend my time on a letter when I know my answer is going to be something along the lines of "Thank you for you letter. It will be forwarded to the nearest circular file." One doesn't need to continually beat a dead horse to figure out it is dead.

I think your statement, "And what is deemd [sic] objectionable is certainly up to Simutronics, not a democratic vote of the majority!" sums that concept up pretty well.

Aerienne
reg

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aerienne:
Andraste,

I have to say, I very much disagree with your post. I usually respect your opinion. I don't think my comments can in anyway be construed as bashing you. You offered some ideas as to why he was told to stop and I appreciate knowing what the offical response might be, even if I don't agree with it! And I do think several of us are coming up with valid arguments/opinions on this topic: "Your thoughts on this style of roleplay."

Aerienne,

You might want to go back and read some of those posts. A couple or so contained no valid arguments or opinions, they were mostly used as a chance to bash me personally ::chuckle:: when all I came to do was post an opinion on what another GM might have seen/done. They were pretty clearly personal attacks that had nothing to do with the issue of what occured in Plat with Zarosa and another GM.

First off, I equal violence in Gemstone from critters to be equal to violence from other players. Gore is gore in my book.

That's your opinion and you are certainly welcome to it. My experience is that people come into the game knowing what to expect, unless they don't bother to read a thing... which is their loss. What you know to expect from game mechanics and NPCs/events from examples given is different from what you expect to see and hear from other players playing the game. There is just no way to imagine that, being there is such a diversity.

You want to talk about graphic, take a ride on the Tunnel of Love. I wish I knew then that if I exited, and reentered, it would have given me the pass to freedom.

Then I must be in the minority, as I laughed my ass off all the way through the Tunnel of Terror. Even the ghoul of the gate hints at what is to come. It was a hilarious spoof on things like Disneyland's "Pirates of the Caribbean" and haunted houses! And knowing it was a totally parody only made it funnier, for me.

While I do take what happens to my character a lot more personally when it is coming from other players, I expect that when I enter Elanthia, that I should expect the unexpected. Within certain bounds, I expect to be able to roleplay my way out of any situation, and if need be, I can go Out of Character in whispers, or if need be, I report.

That's well and fine. You're probably an adult. You're probably mature. Not everyone is. Not everyone is at your level of roleplaying ability, and there's no requirement that you have to be an expert roleplayer to play the game. Everyone has to learn from somewhere! There are certainly players who have a problem handling some kinds of situations, and might find something in the game so objectionable that their first response IS to report it, not to ask the other player to stop. That's neither wrong or a flaw in their character, that's a survival reaction (fight or flight). People just have different toleration levels, different experiences, different ideals, different morals -- they don't cease having them just because they play again, nor do we expect them to. They also might not be able to confront other people for some reason -- actually most people don't like to confront or be confronted.

Perhaps I am missing something here. My understanding is that nobody ever confronted Zarosa about his actions directly to complain before the GM stepped in.

See comments above.

I think your statement, "And what is deemd [sic] objectionable is certainly up to Simutronics, not a democratic vote of the majority!" sums that concept up pretty well.

Aerienne

---

That's pretty much what Policy says. Simutronics decides. Point me to a game where the population decides how it is run, instead of the company that owns the game. How old are they? What is their player base? How much do they charge? Average length of time a player play sticks around... in years?

Zanagan, perhaps you didn't understand what I was saying, so I'll try to be more clear and concise:

Most people accept that what the game mechanics, critters, and NPCs say and do is something expected in the game environment, and to a degree, it's controlled. "Yeah, yeah, ::yawn:: come on orc swing at me again" You swing your blade, cast at the orc... boom, you kill it with ichor, inards, and blood everywhere. Is this really a shock for anyone? Judging from the number of multi-accounters, scripters, and power-hunters, I'd say no.

What players do with their characters however does not fall on the same side of the line, because it requires a suspension of disbelief to immerse yourself in a roleplaying atmosphere. And that line can be very thin and easily broken, by what the player behind the character makes that character say and do... sometimes pulling the player back over the line to reality. Everyone has a limit. For some, that limit is less than others.

The most famous examples of this are OOC comments. Recitation of stats, AS, DS, and attacks. Talk about pimpin' ho's, mackin', and singing the newest Drowning Pool song in TSC. Each time I hear something like that, it's just one more thing that makes it easy for me to forget I'm a sorcerer in the medieval times.

It's fine for my little cleric to be kneeling in the Temple Storeroom meditating and not notice the fellow that enters the room as sits next to me. We're in a dark dusty room, I'm deep in thought, I don't hear his approaching footsteps. Fine we're roleplaying.

It's not fine when that fellow ACTS that he's putting his hand up my skirt and touching my genitalia. And while, sure I could ask him to stop in character, there is another part of me that feels uncomfortable, violated, and also considers that telling him to stop doesn't prevent him from repeating his action to someone else -- someone much younger and much more likely to be offended than ancient me. So instead of saying something, I report it.

Granted, the actions of Zarosa weren't lewd, like the fellow above, nor was he walking around raping people... BUT... can you see or even admit that the actions might have made some people uncomfortable? Disgusted? Distressed? And that reaction comes from the player, not the character? Is that something you can see?

You could always take it as a compliment, I suppose, and have some solice in that, but part of being a player (and a character) here, is having respect for others. And yeah, sometimes that means you don't get to do what you want to do if a bunch of other people find it disruptive.

I still think the fact that these actions were being done to someone who was in no position to move or escape from them need to be considered.

Have you asked on the Platinum boards why no one asked you directly to stop?

--A.
reg

Andraste, people like to prove people of high importance wrong. Its just that simple. I respect your oppinion Andraste that is why I didn't respond to your post explaining homosexuality. Because you showed me facts and I can accept your evidence to me as a reality answer. I think people respect you alot especially here, but they like to prove you wrong and belittle you somewhat. Just ignore it and talk with truth. Best I can offer.

Lord Deprav reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by GMAndraste:
Have you asked on the Platinum boards why no one asked you directly to stop?

--A.

---

I mentioned in my initial post on the Plat boards how no one confronted me first, but didn't technically ask. But I made it clear I would be interested in an explanation by one or more of these FEW people.

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa

reg

What does this tell me?

FAVORTISM

Sot = incrowd

Zangan = not the incrowd

As Andraste said. They don't have to fair or equal. Even though we are paying the same amount to play the same game.

edge reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by edge:
Sot gets a soup kitchen?! But Zanagan isn't allowed to RP the same way as Sot?

What does this tell me?

FAVORTISM

Sot = incrowd

Zangan = not the incrowd

As Andraste said. They don't have to fair or equal. Even though we are paying the same amount to play the same game.

edge

---

You wanna clarify those ramblings a bit? We know you hate the game you play on a daily basis, but I'm still trying to figure out why. reg

Zanagan/Zarosa

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the truly clueless among you...

GMs often can't bring their PCs to paid festivals, it's preferable instead to allow the tickets to be sold to players, instead of taking up the limited slots.

In the event they are allowed to attend, whether or not they know anything about items is immaterial. Buying 50 and selling them would be considered an abuse of their status.

--A.

Well at least she isn't calling you clueless anymore. Or the rest of the people around here.

Maybe she can change her name to the master of customer service.

Hiway

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Specto:
You wanna clarify those ramblings a bit? We know you hate the game you play on a daily basis, but I'm still trying to figure out why.

---

Read my previous post, it all is pretty clear from there. I am wondering why Andraste didn't respond to that, either. I can tell you for a fact (having been there) that what Zarosa did was not different from Sot. He wasn't more gruesome, gory, nothing of the sort, yet Zarosa gets told to can/tone down what he does, and Sot never had any troubles. I'd personally like to hear Andraste's thoughts on that..as well as any other GM willing to answer and any plat players here who reported Zarosa's actions, but did not have problems with Sot. reg

Zarosa seems to think its not his responsibilty to make sure his line of RP is OK with those he inflicts it on.

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Maali:
Sot asked other players beforehand.

---

He never--I repeat--NEVER--asked me, not that it would have mattered.

reg

Maali. Wow, proven wrong again. Imagine that. Still can't admit you are wrong? Takes a person with ALOT of character to admit when they was mistaken. But you remind me of Simutronics staff(some of them, only a few bad apples ruins it for them all). You happen to be a staffer? Oh, I wouldn't expect a honest reply since you can't admit you don't know what you are talking about.

Also Andraste. I am glad you post. Some of the things you make clear for us. But, I think the game should be fair and equal.....Period. No ans, ifs about it. It's the right thing to do. Everyone makes mistakes. It's the adult thing to do. But, the staff is childish to sometimes. But you back up a childish decision. Does this not make you a childish and wrong?

Do as I tell you, not as I do. That doesn't count with me.

edge reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess:
Read my previous post, it all is pretty clear from there. I am wondering why Andraste didn't respond to that, either. I can tell you for a fact (having been there) that what Zarosa did was not different from Sot. He wasn't more gruesome, gory, nothing of the sort, yet Zarosa gets told to can/tone down what he does, and Sot never had any troubles. I'd personally like to hear Andraste's thoughts on that..as well as any other GM willing to answer and any plat players here who reported Zarosa's actions, but did not have problems with Sot.

---

Probably because I only chimed in here to shed some light on why the call was made to ask Zarosa to cool it.

My only interactions with Sot have been as a merchant and his requests to have things made of body parts (to which I have replied no). While I know he has or had a sizeable collection (that will some day poof as they decay, just as they do when you blow limbs off critters), it was not apparent to me that Sot was a cannibal.

Nor did I know he had a soup kitchen. Are you sure his soup kitchen isn't part of his ALAE work?

--A.
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by edge:
...But, the staff is childish to sometimes. But you back up a childish decision. Does this not make you a childish and wrong?...

edge

---

::chuckle:: No, it does not. ::grins::

- If your best friend murders someone, but you stand up for him because you believe he's innocent, does this make you a murderer?

- If a politician known for his rather unscrupulous methods supports a measure or bond issue, and you agree with it as well, does this make you a crook and a snake?

- If you know that a work associate pads his expense account, and you say nothing to his supervisor, silently endorsing his actions, does this make you guilty of fraud?

No, no,... and no, but thanks for the implication, Edge! Did I say that I supported the decision? No. I offered my insight to WHY it could have been made, based on my experience, my knowledge of Policy, etc.

Did I back up the reason why the decision could have been made, based on my experience here? Yes, using examples that have happened to myself and other players -- as well as what I was able to find out after asking questions about what happened.

Of course... if you'd prefer not to have access to this kind of information and insight... I have things I could be doing instead of reading these boards, Edge.

And as long as were quoting adages...

"Don't shoot the messenger."

--A.

[This message has been edited by GMAndraste (edited 11-08-2001).] reg

If you hate Simutronics and its products go much, stop running your mouth about "Selling your characters if Simu doesnt change" "Taking offers on your characters if Simu doesnt change" and just freaking do it and leave, you whiney little twit. reg

That whiney little twit happens to have the respect and the friendship of several people who read, own , and post on these boards. There is no need to cause discontent.

And as far as edge saying he will sell his characters, couple months ago he had a rogue, wizard, and a cleric...now he only has the wizard. Sounds to me like somewhere along the line the others were canned.

Buckwheet reg

It's sad to see people run out of things to say. The always resort to name calling and makes themselves look the fool.

------------------
-Crotas reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Maali:
HE asked me beforehand, he asked Zsi beforehand...maybe you are just...hmm, how to put this...one of Zarosas sycophants, since I havent noticed a single person in Plat, with the exception of his two bootlickers, who can stand his feeble attempts at evil.

---

...........or.............maybe you're one of the babies he didn't feel like going through the dirty diaper syndrome nonsense with so he felt the need to ask you. Most people I talked to (and I took the time to question some who have interacted with him in such a manner) said he didn't once, where one or two said he mentioned it once then never did again--and typically he doesn't. Interestingly enough, I think a post on the official boards sums it up, where someone said that people respond to evil (I rather use the term controversial when discussing my character because I do not consider her to be evil per se) characters on how much they "feel they can trust them." I am going to say that probably should go both ways seeing as not everyone has the ability to handle situations maturely. I don't know Sot's reasons for asking you and Zsi, and not asking myself or the others I spoke to, so I'm just going to take it for granted that he felt comfortable enough in my roleplaying ability and maturity to play out such a skit. I brought up what I felt to be a valid point and merely asked a legitimate question, Maali, you resorted to extraneous insults calling me a sycophant...that gives me a reason to say "Well if Sot did in fact ask him, judging by his actions here I understand why." Also there were quite a few others on the Plat boards who although their CHARACTER *hated* Zarosa, the players got a kick out of it and enjoyed the storyline. Are they sycophants too?

quote:

---

Originally posted by GMAndraste:
Probably because I only chimed in here to shed some light on why the call was made to ask Zarosa to cool it.

My only interactions with Sot have been as a merchant and his requests to have things made of body parts (to which I have replied no). While I know he has or had a sizeable collection (that will some day poof as they decay, just as they do when you blow limbs off critters), it was not apparent to me that Sot was a cannibal.

Nor did I know he had a soup kitchen. Are you sure his soup kitchen isn't part of his ALAE work?

--A.

---

Honestly, I wouldn't know. Again it was in the tent for the Flea Festival, temporary--I'm not too clear on whether or not it was ALAE. My question was just that why it was a big deal for Zarosa to act out cannibalistic actions when another could? Another question for you...I know you said (in so many words) Simu is it's own company, things they do don't necessarily have to fit our ideas of "fair" but...what do you personally think about it, i.e, the NPC can pretty much do the most gruesome and gory actions some might have ever seen, but if my character breathes funny someone can report it and I get a request from a GM to change. I understand from a perspective as a Simu Staff employee you might have some obligation to make those points but do you personally think that is in any way even beneficial for the game? I tend to think it isn't, if anything it just sort of limits a person and takes away from the roleplaying environment.

Sycophant Bootlicker Extrodinaire..yay.

[This message has been edited by Weedmage Princess (edited 11-08-2001).] reg

I came to plat for the RP. Due to your explanations of things andraste (and this whole situation), i am seriously considering dropping it.

'lood
thanks for the info. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess:
Honestly, I wouldn't know. Again it was in the tent for the Flea Festival, temporary--I'm not too clear on whether or not it was ALAE.

Ah... the Flea Festival. Yes, my understanding is that it was an ALAE event, and was a special area.

My question was just that why it was a big deal for Zarosa to act out cannibalistic actions when another could?

As I answered, I never knew Sot was a cannibal, my merchant just thought he had an odd penchant for body parts. He never did any cannibal actions in front of my merchants, that I can recall.

Another question for you...I know you said (in so many words) Simu is it's own company, things they do don't necessarily have to fit our ideas of "fair" but...what do you personally think about it, i.e, the NPC can pretty much do the most gruesome and gory actions some might have ever seen, but if my character breathes funny someone can report it and I get a request from a GM to change.

I guess my gut answer would be... because Staff are hired and trained to NPC, players aren't here to NPC -- they're here to interact with them, to add to their (the player's) experience with the game.

I can't think of one occasion where a player has been an NPC. For as long as I have been staff, only staff has been NPCs. I'm not talking about storylines created by players and a PRO (Player-Run Organization) performed it... I'm talking about an official, GM storyline -- as that might seem like favoritism.

To continue, I would expect that anyone, regardless of whether they are a player or a Staff person running an NPC, would conduct themselves in a manner that presents an event that everyone can enjoy. And if their actions or comments were offensive or disruptive, they would be spoken to. And I DO know that after some events when players have complained about something, we do get the Feedback, so it's not as one-sided as it seems or feels.

I understand from a perspective as a Simu Staff employee you might have some obligation to make those points but do you personally think that is in any way even beneficial for the game? I tend to think it isn't, if anything it just sort of limits a person and takes away from the roleplaying environment.

Sycophant Bootlicker Extrodinaire..yay.

---

This is what I think (and my answer is pretty much a "yes")... Rules/guidelines/policies exist for a reason. Sometimes they come from experience with similiar situations (other games). Sometimes they come from negative experiences (or what we might call snerty behavior, and in some simulation games, the "magic bullet "syndrome). Some come about in reaction to a (set of) situation(s), seeking to resolve or clarify. Some come from input and feedback. Seldom have they ever been created for arbitrary reasons.

Do I think it's limiting? No. Because I see people rise to the challenge every day of exercising their roleplaying abilities and imaginations to weave a wonderfully magical world here within those rules/guidelines/policies. I know at least 6 people who have played evil without needing to kill someone or abuse their spells/age/skills and they're much more respected than some of the snerts walking around today that act out in the most knee jerk method. They don't get reported, they don't get warnings, and they don't get locked out... they DO get player admiration and roleplaying awards.

The fact that it can be done... IS done... on a daily basis, is proof that it's not at all limiting. There's a difference between truly roleplaying evil and "acting" evil by abusing one's skills/age/skills. One is convincing. The other is just a facade that is easily seen through.

--A. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Buckwheet:
Watch the flames Maali.
That whiney little twit happens to have the respect and the friendship of several people who read, own , and post on these boards. There is no need to cause discontent.

---

Hmmm.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Edge:
"You happen to be a staffer? Oh, I wouldn't expect a honest reply since you can't admit you don't know what you are talking about."

"Does this not make you a childish and wrong?"

---

Hmm...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Edge:
Sot gets a soup kitchen?! But Zanagan isn't allowed to RP the same way as Sot?

What does this tell me?

FAVORTISM

Sot = incrowd

Zangan = not the incrowd

As Andraste said. They don't have to fair or equal. Even though we are paying the same amount to play the same game.

---

Hmm...

What does this tell me?

FAVORITISM

Edge = incrowd

Maali = not the incrowd

As Buckwheet said. They don't have to be fair or equal. Even though we are all here to discuss the same game. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by GMAndraste:

The fact that it can be done... IS done... on a daily basis, is proof that it's not at all limiting. There's a difference between truly roleplaying evil and "acting" evil by abusing one's skills/age/skills. One is convincing. The other is just a facade that is easily seen through.

--A.

---

I'm assuming this doesn't refer to my little level 16 plat character who can get his arse handed to him by just about anyone, and has no skills to abuse.
reg

The Flea Festival was a player-run (but not ALAE-run) event. The tent for the festival *was* built by ALAE to specifications as a commission from one of the players who participated.

Just wanted to make that part clear.

Sarah/Jura reg

I think there is just a lot of cynicism because so many GM decisions are made on a personal basis, and consistency in policy seems to be lacking. That and the fact that so much of roleplay seems to be in the grey areas that it's hard to know what will be acceptable and what is not. What is acceptable to one GM is not to another.

I have no idea of what training is given to GMs, but it seems that there is a need to better guidance for all GMs to remain consistent on policy.

And Maali, it's really sad to watch someone who is so obviously running out of ammo in the battle of wits resort to name calling. It's even sadder to see someone try and defend it, Specto.

Aerienne reg

If my friend murdered someone and I knew he did. That makes me a accomplice. But if my friend was accused of murder and I believed he wasn't. That's another story.

I know you are getting flamed and thinking that everything is aimed at a personal attack at you. It isn't. Look at me. I get called a twit by someone that lost the battle of wits and made himself look even more stupid. Way to go Maali! Keep up the feeble attempts. Makes me feel good to know I ruined your day by making you look like a total idiot.

edge reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by kelood:
People who can't handle that type of roleplay shouldn't be in plat to begin with.

I came to plat for the RP. Due to your explanations of things andraste (and this whole situation), i am seriously considering dropping it.

'lood
thanks for the info.

---

I know where you are coming from and at one point yesterday I was seriously saying the same thing to myself--but you know there are a lot of people out there who AREN'T like that...Personally I'll try to RP out (almost) anything and I know quite a few people there are the same way...also the people joining Plat are (thankfully) looking for the same type of thing. As long as people use moderation (because I feel there is a difference between a little cannibalism and someone at the temple altar sticking their hand up another character's skirt--haha) and caution (i.e look for the more seemingly immature folks and avoid rp'ing with them) I still think there is lots of fun to be had in Plat.

[This message has been edited by Weedmage Princess (edited 11-09-2001).] reg

edge reg

------------------
Caels Onae'Rae
AIM : Lord Caels

Emails:
caels_onaerae@hotmail.com
caels@gsplayers.com reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Specto:
[b]Hmm...

What does this tell me?

FAVORITISM

Edge = incrowd

Maali = not the incrowd

As Buckwheet said. They don't have to be fair or equal. Even though we are all here to discuss the same game.[/B]

---

I get so many benefits by being part of the "in crowd" it's not even funny.

There is a difference between commenting on something, and continually bashing another player(s) in every post you make. I would hope you can differentiate between the two.

reg

It's proven it's point and I think too many people are going to start bashing people.

Someone start a new one reg