Banned

08:13 PMYou don't have to be told by a GM you have become banned, they can simply throw you in the cell and tell you to write lockout for any information on your length of time being banned? well apparently the answer is yes heh

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa reg

09:30 PMYou got banned for cannibalism? Please explain.

edge reg

10:12 PMWell apparently he doesn't have too much to explain since the GM just threw him into the cell. Very interesting though. And if there is something to explain, do.

Lord Deprav reg

10:25 PMI got told why he is banned. I was at the boulder as was Zangan. I bolted Solkern with a 670 bolt. Then Zanagan asked who he could bolt.

Everyone was pointing at Moxxa.

So he asked Moxxa if he could bolt him. He said...Yes. Then apparently he reported Zanagan and he got banned.

Several of us was there. Summir, Caels, Solkern, Larenusia, moleran, Sergey, Rorac, Roanon(I think thats how you spell it, bard gave us Kais to bolt) and me. We are all going to assist and write feedback that Moxxa did consent in front of everyone.

Now who thinks they will ignor all the assists and letters?

edge reg

10:51 PMThat sucks a fat one, however I'm not at all surprised.

Sonic reg

11:25 PMYeah, I'm not surprised either. (take that however you want)

Classic. reg

12:03 AMWell I got to talk to a GM finally and seems he can't do anything at this stage...

Khaladon gestures and a shaft of scintillating light jumps out of the sky and engulfs him. When the light recedes Khaladon is no longer there.
>

The world grows blurry and indistinct. After a moment everything becomes clear again. Looking about, you see...
[Gingerbread House, Cookie Vault]
A solid door of veil iron seals this room from prying eyes and fingers. Shelves of cookies set behind sheets of transparent glaes fill the available wall space. A rich indigo woven rug rests on the floor in front of a rosewood cookie bar with several bar stools propped before it.
Also in the room: GameMaster Khaladon
Obvious exits: none.
>put cleave in my shr
You put a sharp meat cleaver in your holy shroud.
>grin
You grin.
>
* Elexa just bit the dust!
>'Cookie Vault
You say, "Cookie Vault"
>chuckle
You chuckle.
>
Khaladon asks, "How can I help you?"
>get cook
You just grabbed yourself a delicious looking sugar cookie. Enjoy!!
>
Khaladon grins.
>
Khaladon asks, "Fitting?"
>grin
You grin.
>'Zanagan got banned for unconsentual PvP today. But 8 of us was there and the person consented
You say, "Zanagan got banned for unconsentual PvP today. But 8 of us was there and the person consented"
>'Summir, Caels, Solkern, Larenusia, moleran, Sergey, Rorac, Roanon(I think thats how you spell it, bard gave us Kais to bolt) and me.
You say, "Summir, Caels, Solkern, Larenusia, moleran, Sergey, Rorac, Roanon(I think thats how you spell it, bard gave us Kais to bolt) and me. "
>
You feel at full magical power again.
>'I will find the rest of the people that witnessed him saying yes
>
You say, "I will find the rest of the people that witnessed him saying yes"
>'I think that is not right
You say, "I think that is not right"
>
Khaladon says, "Unfortunately, the GM on the scene, has the final say on that."
>'They didnt ask the people that was there what happened
You say, "They didnt ask the people that was there what happened"
>'And you could give them the list of the people that was there
You say, "And you could give them the list of the people that was there"
>
Khaladon says, "And as you know, all lockouts are reviewed by the Seniors"
>'Saying they might want to investigate this more
You say, "Saying they might want to investigate this more"
>
Khaladon says, "Then again by the folks in the office."
>'Well, when only partial evidence is given, I think it should be reviewed again with the whole truth
You say, "Well, when only partial evidence is given, I think it should be reviewed again with the whole truth"
>
Khaladon says, "Further , it can be appealed by him, with a letter to lockout."
>'months lateer
You say, "months lateer"
>'That isnt reasonable
You say, "That isnt reasonable"
>'When you got 8 people saying that the person consented
You say, "When you got 8 people saying that the person consented"
>'Will have more when I can dig up the log
You say, "Will have more when I can dig up the log"
>'And find the other people
You say, "And find the other people"
>
Khaladon says, "Thats fine, its really beyond me, you etc"
>'It really isn't
You say, "It really isn't"
>
Khaladon says, "I think your underestimating lockout and feedback"
>
Khaladon says, "The average turnaround is now 6 days"
>
* Shaemarie just bit the dust!
>
* Frugal just bit the dust!
>'No, I have faith in them to be lazy and not to do the right thing in a reasonable amount of time
You say, "No, I have faith in them to be lazy and not to do the right thing in a reasonable amount of time"
>'6 days over someone not investigating a claim fully
You say, "6 days over someone not investigating a claim fully"
>
* Kantrelle just bit the dust!
>'I mean really now
You say, "I mean really now"
>
* Amrenza just bit the dust!
>'It just doesn't seem fair or reasonable
You say, "It just doesn't seem fair or reasonable"
>
Khaladon says, "The GM on the scene has final authority at that moment."
>'Who was it?
You ask, "Who was it?"
>
Khaladon says, "That I cannot disclose."
>'So you are not allowed to let the GM know that these 8 people witnessed Moxxa saying yes?
You ask, "So you are not allowed to let the GM know that these 8 people witnessed Moxxa saying yes?"
>
Khaladon says, "What I'd suggest."
>'So that they can see they was wrong in their banning and to do the right thing and reverse it?
You ask, "So that they can see they was wrong in their banning and to do the right thing and reverse it?"
>'What is that?
You ask, "What is that?"
>
Khaladon says, "Is send a log from your point of view to lockout@simutronics.com"
>nod
You nod.
>
Khaladon says, "At this point, only a Senior or Lockout can reverse it"
>'Just seemed like it could be fixed easy by talking to everyone involved. Instead of a few friends of moxxas
You say, "Just seemed like it could be fixed easy by talking to everyone involved. Instead of a few friends of moxxas"
>
* Fenja just bit the dust!
>'There was no harsh words or nothing. I was there
You say, "There was no harsh words or nothing. I was there"
>
Khaladon asks, "You were there as Edgeleaf?"
>'Nothing to make it appear to be a problem
You say, "Nothing to make it appear to be a problem"
>'Yes
You say, "Yes"
>
Khaladon nods.
>'We was seeing whose bolt was biggest
You say, "We was seeing whose bolt was biggest"
>chuckle
You chuckle.
>'I won
You say, "I won"
>whistle
You whistle tunelessly to yourself, remembering days past.
>
Khaladon says, "So, describe to me, what happened"
>
Khaladon says, "Just from your point of view"
>'I bolted Solkern becasue he wanted me to
You say, "I bolted Solkern becasue he wanted me to"
>'Then Zanagan said, who wants to be bolted
You say, "Then Zanagan said, who wants to be bolted"
>'Bunch of different people pointed at Moxxa
You say, "Bunch of different people pointed at Moxxa"
>'So Zanagan says
You say, "So Zanagan says"
>'Moxxa?
You ask, "Moxxa?"
>'Can I bolt you?
You ask, "Can I bolt you?"
>'Moxxa said 'yes"
You say, "Moxxa said 'yes""
>'Bam, he bolted him
You say, "Bam, he bolted him"
>'When I confronted him a little bit ago
You say, "When I confronted him a little bit ago"
>'HE was saying, he never asked me
You say, "HE was saying, he never asked me"
>'I am like all these people seen him ask you
You say, "I am like all these people seen him ask you"
>
* Julianaa just bit the dust!
>'The guy lied
You say, "The guy lied"
>'Or missed Zanagan asking
You say, "Or missed Zanagan asking"
>'But he did reply Yes
You say, "But he did reply Yes"
>
Khaladon says, "Now, you realize by reading the boards, as well as players corner"
>
Skolos pets your horned frog.
>
Khaladon says, "we have to SEE the incident"
>'I know
You say, "I know"
>'But you dont ban someone over a mistake or for someone else lying
You say, "But you dont ban someone over a mistake or for someone else lying"
>
Khaladon says, "So your point of view and the GMs may differ"
>'He said yes
You say, "He said yes"
>'Simple
You say, "Simple"
>'If you get murdered
You say, "If you get murdered"
>'you scream and yell about it after
You say, "you scream and yell about it after"
>'he did nothing
You say, "he did nothing"
>'Solkern raised him
You say, "Solkern raised him"
>'someone healed him
You say, "someone healed him"
>'then I went and raised a kobold and came back
You say, "then I went and raised a kobold and came back"
>'and everyone was having fun
You say, "and everyone was having fun"
>'then I leave, come back tonight abnd Zanagan is banned
You say, "then I leave, come back tonight abnd Zanagan is banned"
>
Khaladon asks, "And you considered all the other factors?"
>'Like?
You ask, "Like?"
>
Khaladon says, "# of warns is one"
>'It was at the boulder to
You say, "It was at the boulder to"
>'Where GMs have always said. Go at your own risk
You say, "Where GMs have always said. Go at your own risk"
>
Khaladon says, "Boulder != lack of POLICY"
>'Boulder is the place where the GMs know we kill each other. Plus they say, go at your own risk
You say, "Boulder is the place where the GMs know we kill each other. Plus they say, go at your own risk"
>'I have seen this posted on the boards
You say, "I have seen this posted on the boards"
>eat my cook
>
You take a bite of your sugar cookie.
>
Khaladon says, "No clue as to that, but policy is in effect in every room in the game"
'it was only a deed at the boulder. Not like he was hunted down. Harrassed. His gaming experience was ruined
>You say, "it was only a deed at the boulder. Not like he was hunted down. Harrassed. His gaming experience was ruined"
>

* Morok was just vaporized!

>
* Morok just bit the dust!
>'Like Zanagan hurt his feelings. He didn't talk any trash. It was all in fun
You say, "Like Zanagan hurt his feelings. He didn't talk any trash. It was all in fun"
>
* Nureau just bit the dust!
>'Then later he gets upset ot talked into getting Zanagan in trouble
You say, "Then later he gets upset ot talked into getting Zanagan in trouble"
>'I don't know
You say, "I don't know"
>'But it really seem extreme
You say, "But it really seem extreme"
>
Khaladon says, "Like the kid tossing nails, its all fun til someone loses at eye"
>
* Tartsen is off to a rough start! He just bit the dust!
>'not a good example
You say, "not a good example"
>
Khaladon says, "Probably not"
>
Khaladon says, "But its 1247 AM"
>chuckle
You chuckle.
>
Khaladon says, "The bottom line though"
>
Khaladon says, "Is we can't do anything for him through you"
>
* Elvintasia is off to a rough start! She just bit the dust!
>
Khaladon says, "He needs to follow proper channels"
>sigh
You sigh.
>'Well, it's just doesn't seem fair
You say, "Well, it's just doesn't seem fair"
>'I gave a list of people that witnessed this. I will also write feedback
You say, "I gave a list of people that witnessed this. I will also write feedback"
>
* Drakanious just bit the dust!
>'But they don't like me there
You say, "But they don't like me there"
>chuckle
You chuckle.
>
Khaladon nods.
>
* Elvintasia is off to a rough start! She just bit the dust!
>
Khaladon says, "Sounds like a plan"
>'So my voice will not be listened to very well
You say, "So my voice will not be listened to very well"
>grin khala
You grin at Khaladon.
>
Khaladon says, "No idea, again, all lockouts are reviewed in 2 phases"
>'Everyone else that was there is assisting
You say, "Everyone else that was there is assisting"
>'So you may be busy tonight
You say, "So you may be busy tonight"
>
Khaladon nods.
>
Khaladon says, "Good evening then"
>
Khaladon smiles.
>'Hopefully you can add this conversation to the record
You say, "Hopefully you can add this conversation to the record"
>wave
You wave.
>eat cook
eat cook

You must pick it up first.
eat cook

>eat cook

You must pick it up first.
>eat cook

You must pick it up first.
>You must pick it up first.
>
You must pick it up first.
>
Khaladon says, "I log everything"
>
Khaladon grins.
>
Khaladon waves.
>eat my cook
eat my cook

You take a bite of your sugar cookie.
Hey, that tasted great!
eat my cook

>eat my cook

You take a bite of your sugar cookie.
Hey, that tasted great!
You only have one bite left.
>You take a bite of your sugar cookie.
That was the last of it.
>
I could not find what you were referring to.
>grin
>
You grin.

Hopefully lockout will respond to this in a reasonable amount of time.

edge reg

12:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by edge:
I got told why he is banned. I was at the boulder as was Zangan. I bolted Solkern with a 670 bolt. Then Zanagan asked who he could bolt.
Everyone was pointing at Moxxa.
So he asked Moxxa if he could bolt him. He said...Yes.

Wow, what a stellar example of roleplaying and realistic duels! Bravo! I'm so impressed.

Just because it is the Boulder doesn't mean Policy doesn't exist, and apart of that Policy does address that this is a roleplaying game... for those who haven't yet read the recently clarified version.

If Moxxa said yes, then complained, and nothing else happened inbetween, then perhaps he needs to read Policy to clarifiy what part of consent he doesn't understand.

But, since I didn't see what happened and can't say for certain there's not some part of this conversation missing, I'd say the best thing folks can do is send letters and logs to Feedback.

--A. reg

01:20 AMDidn't know we was required to roleplay? Wasn't a duel between us. Solkern wanted me to bolt him.

Nothing happened inbetween. I confronted Moxxa and asked him why he didn't just ask Zanagan for a deed gem.

His reply was. He left to soon.

Amazing. Can't expect fairness from GMs that say they don't have to be fair. Just read policy.

I gave a list of names to contact that can verify that he consented. What is amazing is. They banned him over this. I wonder if it was personal reasons more then policy violations?

What is REAL sad is. People can believe it. Wonder what that says about the staff.

edge

reg

01:47 AMAlthough I agree that the GM initiating the ban needed to look further into the situation before initiating the lockout, and DEFINITELY should have told Zanagan what he was being tossed in the cell for, I don't think you're being fair to Khaladon and Andraste, Edge.

The policy in this case seems to be an attempt to prevent the favoritism that you enjoy complaining about. Ie. Joe Rollplayer that got banned for PvP can't just ask his good buddy, GM Favorito, to erase the record. GM Icaughtya needs to follow through and make sure that that Joe knows the rules, and which one he broke, so Joe will hopefully not break the rules again. It's unfortunate that Zan gets stung by the length of time the process takes, but I think the policy is a good one.

I hope that with a situation like this, if all of the witnesses send feedback right away, it will expedite the process and Zan will be freed soon.

Aerienne reg

02:14 AM

quote:
Originally posted by edge:
Didn't know we was required to roleplay? Wasn't a duel between us. Solkern wanted me to bolt him.
Nothing happened inbetween. I confronted Moxxa and asked him why he didn't just ask Zanagan for a deed gem.
His reply was. He left to soon.
Amazing. Can't expect fairness from GMs that say they don't have to be fair. Just read policy.
I gave a list of names to contact that can verify that he consented. What is amazing is. They banned him over this. I wonder if it was personal reasons more then policy violations?
What is REAL sad is. People can believe it. Wonder what that says about the staff.

edge

Fairness is that Policy is practiced in every public room of the game.

For those who haven't read it...

>policy 2

Role-playing

GemStone III is a Role-playing Game. This means that players interact in the world playing the part of their characters in a medieval fantasy environment. This is known as "in character" (IC) and means that the player is acting out the part believably. The term "out of character" (OOC) means that the player is behaving inconsistently with their character's situation in the game (such as discussing the latest sports event, singing the latest music release, or playing the part of a starship captain, communicating in French, Swahili or other language English is Elanthias Common all other earthly languages that don't exist in Elanthia).

Players are expected to remain in character. Generally, if someone wants or needs to be OOC (such as explain game mechanics to another player), they may do so in ways that are not in public. Using a private room (one with a locked or latched door) or talking in whispers is recommended. Note that tables are considered in public.

When one individual is reducing the enjoyment of other players by out-of-character behavior (be it by speech, actions, ESP messages, or any other method of communication within GemStone III), this may be considered disruptive behavior. Private rooms, whispers, direct thoughts to another player through ESP, or any other methods of communication are not excluded from this if one of the participants involved objects.

Staff Member Characters (GMs, Sages, and Hosts) are necessary to keep the game running smoothly and to assist players with working out problems and are inherently OOC entities because of the nature of their tasks. Because of the reasons a Player may need the assistance of a staff member, interactions with staff characters are not required to be IC. It would be extremely difficult for a high elf to describe the details of a serious game mechanics calculation bug that the character would never see, but the Player has to talk about the numbers involved. This only applies to Staff Member characters, not interactions with Non-player characters (merchants, creatures, royalty, or other NPCs). These should be IC.

And...

>policy 4

nment. GemStone III has been designed to promote competition as player vs. creature, or player vs. puzzle, and not generally player vs. player.

Some events (such as the Gladiatorial Games), encourage player vs. player combat in a structured setting. Also, some players will choose to role-play a competitive situation between themselves, and will combat each other, which is acceptable. What is not acceptable is to initiate combat against unsuspecting victims, especially to prey upon weaker players for the singular enjoyment of the attacker. As a rule of thumb, Character vs. Character (role-playing -CvC) combat is acceptable, while Player vs. Player (OOC or disruptive - PvP) is not.

There are many gray areas in terms of defining what is acceptable competition, and what is abusive behavior. For example, a pickpocket stealing items or silvers. This *can* be considered an open invitation for CvC, but losing 25 silvers isn't exactly cause for death. Losing large amounts might be though. Another example, the classic duel (Character 1: You have insulted my honor and I must defend that to the death! Character 2: Have at thee Knave!) is on the surface acceptable, but on the other hand saying dueling (Player 1: Wanna duel? Player 2: Yeah) isn't as it can be considered OOC.

In general, Simutronics will not get involved in a conflict confined to a small group of players unless it threatens to overlap to others or cause a generally disruptive influence on the game.
reg

06:34 AMHere is the log of everything that happened..notice when Zanagan (me) asks moxxa if I can bolt him he doesn't respond with a "yes?" as would be expected if he was acknowledging his name being called but flat out says.."yes"

You ask, "who can i bolt?"
>Summir gestures at you.
An invisible force guides you.

>Adredrin points at Moxxa.

>Seanathon points at Moxxa.
>Parabol points at Moxxa.
>'moxxa?You ask, "moxxa?"
>Iannerra points at Moxxa.
>Sign of SwordsSign of SmitingSign of StrikingThe guiding force leaves Parabol.
>You grip your weapon with renewed vigor!
>You grip your weapon with renewed vigor!
You grip your weapon with renewed vigor!
>Seanathon starts chortling.
>Moxxa says, "yes"
Iannerra chuckles.
>The wall of force disappears from around Parabol.
>'ok thenLarenusia says, "He agreed"
>You say, "ok then"
>Larenusia nods to you.
>Roanin asks, "Am I singing it to help you?"
>sign of madnessYou are filled with berserk rage! Attack! Attack! Attack!
>pre 910Roanin peers quizzically at you.
>stance offensiveYou concentrate on the Major Shock spell...
Your spell is ready.
>You are now in an offensive stance.
>cast moxYou gesture at Moxxa.
You hurl a powerful lightning bolt at Moxxa!
AS: +653 vs DS: +273 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +34 = +454
... and hit for 323 points of damage!
Horrifying bolt of electricity turns chest into a smoking pulp of flesh. No life left there.

* Moxxa drops dead at your feet!

The guiding force leaves you.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
> * Moxxa just bit the dust!
>Parabol says, "haha"
You smirk.
>Ryever says, "..."
>pre 405castYou concentrate on the Elemental Detection spell...
Your spell is ready.
>You gesture.
You detect the following spells on yourself:
Benediction with very little time remaining.
Elemental Defense III with a fair amount of time remaining.
Elemental Targeting with a fair amount of time remaining.
Elemental Barrier with a fair amount of time remaining.
Elemental Focus with a great amount of time remaining.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>You hear the ghostly voice of Moxxa ask, "what?"
>Larenusia meditates over Moxxa.
Larenusia takes Moxxa's chest damage.
>Solkern cackles!
>Edgeleaf starts chuckling at you!
>Larenusia meditates over Moxxa.
Larenusia takes some of Moxxa's blood loss.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia's chest looks better.
>Suddenly you have the strangest feeling that you are being watched.
The feeling fades as quickly as it came.
>Vaikar snickers.
>Parabol says, "you said yes"
>Summir gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia's chest looks better.
>Solkern says, "NIce"
>Summir gestures at Moxxa.
A luminescent web briefly forms around Moxxa, then fades into the body.
>Your SIGN OF MADNESS is no longer effective.
You feel drained!
>Solkern nods to you.
>Roanin stops singing.
Vaikar laughs!
>Larenusia meditates over Moxxa.
Larenusia takes some of Moxxa's blood loss.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Adredrin says, "that was CONSENT"
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Adredrin grins.
>Seanathon says, "dang"
>Ryever asks, "Maybe he was acknowledging the fact that you were speaking to him?"
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Solkern put a fiery scarlet shield in his Pennant Chase knapsack.
>Solkern says, "ok ok"
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>stance defensiveYou are now in a defensive stance.
Seanathon says, "not to shaby"
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Solkern says, "MY turn ro bolt"
Roanin closes his eyes for a moment.
Edgeleaf starts chuckling at you!
>You say, "Oh I didnt gather that"

>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Solkern asks, "edge gimem like 30 mana?"
>Larenusia chuckles.
>Larenusia faces Solkern, closes her eyes and begins chanting. Suddenly, a small bolt of energy arcs between them!

Larenusia opens her eyes, looking slightly drained.
>Edgeleaf faces Solkern, closes his eyes and begins chanting. Suddenly, a small bolt of energy arcs between them!

Edgeleaf opens his eyes, looking slightly drained.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Caels faces Solkern, closes his eyes and begins chanting. A small spark leaps from Caels's fingers... but little else happens.
>Edgeleaf works his way into some ancient silver-banded mail.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Solkern gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Edgeleaf gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Edgeleaf gestures.
His body is surrounded by a dim dancing aura.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia's chest looks better.
>Solkern says, "shwo you guys a REAl BOLT"
l>Nedish gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>
[Upper Dragonsclaw, Boulder]
The crest of the towering boulder affords a good view of the surrounding countryside. To the north, you see the dense forests of the Lower Dragonsclaw. Looking northeast, the verdant grasslands sprawl down towards the coast. Gazing southward at the slopes, in the distance you see the snow-covered summits of the Dragonsclaw mountain range, shrouded in perpetual mist. You also see a feras rapier.
Also here: the body of Moxxa who is lying down, Lord Nedish, Brezzor who is lying down, Seanathon, Edgeleaf, Caels, High Lady Summir, Balthon who is seated, Larenusia, Solkern, Vaikar who is seated, Ryever, Parabol, Adredrin, Roanin, the Legendary Lady Iannerra
Obvious paths: down.
>Solkern nods.

>Solkern gestures.
Solkern stands tall and appears more confident.
>Edgeleaf removes a silver mace from in his holy shroud.
>Parabol just went down.
Larenusia begins chuckling at Solkern.
pre 405>castYou concentrate on the Elemental Detection spell...
Your spell is ready.
>Edgeleaf slings a brass-plated shield engraved with the image of a snowcat off from over his shoulder.
Adredrin rubs a glassy black mica amulet.
Adredrin suddenly disappears.
>You gesture.
You detect the following spells on yourself:
Elemental Defense III with a fair amount of time remaining.
Elemental Targeting with a fair amount of time remaining.
Elemental Barrier with a fair amount of time remaining.
Elemental Focus with a great amount of time remaining.
Benediction with very little time remaining.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>Solkern gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>An arrow flies out of the shadows toward Solkern!
AS: +0 vs DS: +155 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +55 = -70
A clean miss.
>Solkern gestures.
A pearlescent emanation extends outward to encompass Solkern and those nearby.

>Edgeleaf cackles!
>Solkern removes a blue crystal from in his large sack.
>Larenusia chuckles.
>Solkern rubs a blue crystal.
An invisible force guides Solkern.
>Larenusia meditates over Moxxa.
Larenusia takes some of Moxxa's blood loss.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>You feel at full magical power again.
>Larenusia meditates over Moxxa.
Larenusia takes some of Moxxa's blood loss.
>Nedish gestures at Moxxa.
Nothing happens.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Parabol just arrived.
>pre 405Solkern gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>You concentrate on the Elemental Detection spell...
Your spell is ready.
>cast edgeParabol just went down.
>You gesture at Edgeleaf.
You detect the following spells on Edgeleaf:
Elemental Targeting with a lot of time remaining.
Benediction with very little time remaining.
Elemental Focus with a lot of time remaining.
Bravery with a great amount of time remaining.
Heroism with a great amount of time remaining.
Elemental Barrier with a lot of time remaining.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Solkern gestures at Edgeleaf.
Solkern hurls a stream of water at Edgeleaf!
AS: +99 vs DS: +218 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +19 = -77
A clean miss.
The guiding force leaves Solkern.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Summir gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Summir gestures at Moxxa.
Summir concentrates for a moment then sighs weakly.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
Solkern says, "low on spirit"
>You say, "ahh you had bravery and heroism you bastard"
Solkern nods.
>eat edYou bite Edgeleaf!
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Parabol just arrived.
>Parabol joins Nedish's group.
>Solkern put a blue crystal in his Pennant Chase knapsack.
>An arrow flies out of the shadows toward Solkern!
AS: +0 vs DS: +164 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +57 = -77
A clean miss.
>Larenusia meditates over Moxxa.
Larenusia takes some of Moxxa's blood loss.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Shadt just arrived.
>Solkern grins at you.
>l moxLarenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
You see Moxxa Yatbarb the Giantman.
He appears to be in his 50's, has short, straight sandy blond hair, blue eyes, and tanned skin.
Despite no apparent injuries, he seems to be DEAD!
He is holding a dir hafted vultite waraxe in his right hand and a veniom-bound rolaren tower shield in his left hand.
He is wearing some jet black chain, a carved ivory skull earring, a sturdy dark leather gem pouch, some reinforced black leather pants, some supple dark leather gloves, a simple steel flagon, a veniom threaded harness, a dark hooded greatcloak, some padded black leather boots, a glossy obsidian nose ring, a sturdy dark leather tool belt, a linked ruby demon miniature bracelet, a grinning ruby skull locket, a black tome amulet, a black silk bone-buttoned vest, and a black leather climbing pack.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Parabol says, "that was funny"
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Apoc is revealed from hiding.
Apoc fires an arrow at Solkern!
AS: +0 vs DS: +164 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +66 = -68
A clean miss.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Shadt kicks some dirt on the corpse of Moxxa.
Edgeleaf starts chuckling at you!
Shadt kicks some dirt on the corpse of Moxxa.
>Shadt kicks some dirt on the corpse of Moxxa.
>Apoc starts chortling.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Nedish asks, "wish to live Moxxa?"
>Solkern shrieks!
>You hear the ghostly voice of Moxxa say, "yes"
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Shadt hisses at Seanathon.
>
Zanagan just appeared.
You feel yourself being pulled away...
[Consultation Lounge]
The cozy surroundings of this simple conference room provide a much-welcomed respite from the chaos just outside its walls. You notice several plush chairs arranged casually around the room in a comfortable grouping.
Obvious exits: none.

>'eh?You ask, "eh?"
>Suddenly a shimmering rapier appears floating in the air!

It begins a slow rotation, revealing the form of a GM who is now holding the blade in his hand.

>l
[Consultation Lounge]
The cozy surroundings of this simple conference room provide a much-welcomed respite from the chaos just outside its walls. You notice several plush chairs arranged casually around the room in a comfortable grouping.
Also in the room: GameMaster
Obvious exits: none.
>'wahts up?You ask, "wahts up?"
GM asks, "I wasn't clear?"
>You feel less drained.
GM peers quizzically at you.
You say, "i asked if could bolt him"
>Your sense of faith and conviction wane. You are less sure of yourself.
GM says, "Ahh I believe you said there name."
You say, "No i said"
GM says, "They responded with yes."
You say, "Who can i bolt"
You say, "they pointed to him"
You ask, "I said Mox?"
You say, "he said yes"
You say, "i bolted"
>
***

********************************************************

Zanagan, this is an official warning, that Vulgarity is against GemStone III policy. If you persist in ignoring these warnings, you risk losing permanent access to GemStone III on all of your accounts.

You can review Simutronics Policy by clicking on "POLICY" which is located in the frame on the left side of your screen while in any non-game area of the Simutronics Web Site.

If you feel this warning was received in error, please speak to a GameMaster by typing ASSIST.

You can also learn more about GemStone III policies online, by typing POLICY while in the game.

***

*************************************************************

>blinkYou blink.
>l
[Consultation Lounge]
The cozy surroundings of this simple conference room provide a much-welcomed respite from the chaos just outside its walls. You notice several plush chairs arranged casually around the room in a comfortable grouping.
Also in the room: GameMaster
Obvious exits: none.
You ask, "How is that fair?"
>You feel at full magical power again.
You feel less drained.
You see THE GM
He appears to be (kinda mean :/), has shadowy black hair, brown eyes, chestnut tanned skin and a neatly groomed goatee.
He is in excellent shape.

GM says, "Zanagan you clearly try to push the edge."
GM says, "You know that was PvP"
You say, "I kown but it was consented under my belief."
GM says, "Your little games to dance around it don't make it any less PvP"
You say, "it was not a game"
You say, "I asked "
>

****************************************************************

Please read the policy file at this time, by typing POLICY and the page number that you wish to read. Once you have finished reading all of the policies, a GameMaster will return to answer any questions you may have.

****************************************************************

>l
[Consultation Lounge]
The cozy surroundings of this simple conference room provide a much-welcomed respite from the chaos just outside its walls. You notice several plush chairs arranged casually around the room in a comfortable grouping.
Also in the room: GameMaster
Obvious exits: none.
>GM says, "I'll return when you have finished reading policy, and I'm done reviewing your account."
You say, "can i read this policy stuff tonight? i work night shift and gotta sleep"
GM says, "Sure but you'll remain here until you are done and talked to."
>You do not feel drained anymore.
You say, "thats fine, but this was really uncalled for."You say, "what more must someone do to clarify this? "
>GM says, "You actions where uncalled for."
You are currently tasked with reading the POLICY file, please type "POLICY 1" to read your next unread page.
You say, "No"
>GM nods to you.
You say, "it was consented to"
>GM says, "Yes...clearly."
>Shadows suddenly swarm about GM; moments later he is gone.

Edited out some pointless mstrikes in between my bolt and my being pulled, also edited GM's name out of respect.

Is this deserving of a warning? Nevermind a warning that would lead to a ban? A ban of which I still don't know the length of or anything.

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa

[This message has been edited by Zanagodly (edited 11-10-2001).] reg

07:39 AMOkay - first of all, anyone who's dumb enough to NOT pay attention in the middle of a bunch of people trying to out-bolt each other deserves what they get so I have *no* sympathy for Moxxa at all. I wanna make that very clear.

Looking from a strictly observers's point of view, without knowing the personalities involved at all...

It looks like Moxxa might not have been paying attention when you first asked "who am I gonna bolt?" but was actually responding to everyone's pointing at him and you calling his name.

If you look at the log, he says "what" after he's already dead, even though at that point no one was saying a thing to him.

It looks, as I said, like he just wasn't paying attention. And by the time he said "what" (I'm assuming he was ASKING it but just doesn't know enough about the keyboard to recognize the question mark key), it was already too late.

As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to the boulder situation when you snooze you lose. Zan DID ask who was gonna be next, everyone ELSE was pointing to Moxxa in response, Moxxa wasn't paying attention and responded with a statement - yes - and again it's probably because of that little question mark key he doesn't know about.

And so, in conclusion, I offer this lesson:

USE PUNCTUATION WHEN YOU ROLEPLAY. It will literally save your character's life.

Roberta

Zan, I think the whole boulder crowd should be locked out or have their abilities taken away permanently and made to wander as spell-less, weapon-less, armor-less beggars until such time as they acknowledge that PvP doesn't equal roleplay.

HOWEVER - Two wrongs don't make a right, and in this situation, Moxxa's lack of intelligence is what did him in, he has only himself to blame and I think he should get whacked by the GM for daring to bring the staff into the situation in the first place.

Roberta
reg

08:43 AM2 comments:
1. Until GMs make it clear that the situation on the boulder is not acceptable - giving anyone a warning after someone consents is completely bogus.

Randomly choosing someone to be made an example of by enforcing policy 4 just for him is a farce - and hints of personal vendetta, rather than unbiased and equitable enforcement of policy.

2. The warning that Zanagan received was:
Zanagan, this is an official warning, that Vulgarity is against GemStone III policy.

Did you use profanity? If so - that has nothing to do with the slaying. reg

09:03 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GMAndraste:
Wow, what a stellar example of roleplaying and realistic duels! Bravo! I'm so impressed.--A.

::shakes head:: Do they teach you this sort of responses in that good ol customer service school there at Simuland? Sounds like either you disagree with one of your coworkers instead of the customer. Out of one side of your mouth Andraste you spout off policy saying people are not required to roleplay then you say things like that...

Look up consistent.

quote:
Originally posted by GMAndraste:
Just because it is the Boulder doesn't mean Policy doesn't exist, and apart of that Policy does address that this is a roleplaying game... for those who haven't yet read the recently clarified version.
--A.

::howl!:: Clarified... I should be the one saying wow. Anyway I think it's plainly clear now what's wrong at Simutronics.

Look up consistency. Leadership also.

Hiway

reg

10:22 AMThis definitely is one of those gray areas in the policy. Zanagan killed some guy because of a misunderstanding. Personally, I lost all potential respect I might ever have for moxxa by him reporting something this retarded. It's a deed, who the hell cares. I really hate when people report stupid one time scuffles and stuff like this. I really don't understand why Simu doesn't put in a concensual PvP area so that anyone who steps into the place is fair game. It would solve many of these problems and the GMs wouldn't have to waste their time on this crap.

Sonic reg

10:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Alfador:
This definitely is one of those gray areas in the policy. Zanagan killed some guy because of a misunderstanding. Personally, I lost all potential respect I might ever have for moxxa by him reporting something this retarded. It's a deed, who the hell cares. I really hate when people report stupid one time scuffles and stuff like this. I really don't understand why Simu doesn't put in a concensual PvP area so that anyone who steps into the place is fair game. It would solve many of these problems and the GMs wouldn't have to waste their time on this crap.
Sonic

I thougth we IM'd this thread already Sonic a long time ago.

GM's LIKE getting involved. They like stepping in and playing parent/god. The very job itself attracts these same sort of people who like to eavesdrop and control a fantasy persona.

It is obvious by the way policy is written and how report/assist works in the game.

Time and time again GM's have stated each case will be reviewed independantly and judged by the GM.

This process is time intensive and inefficient. Clear policy decisions on very plain and easy areas about the game are no no's in many GM eyes because then they can't be inconsistent and contradict each other day to day.

What fun would that be?

SGM says one thing. GM says oh that might of been Simutronic's interpretation before but that SGM is gone. Yes it might of made sense, but too bad. Boo hoo. How mature....

"Drizzsdt you can point at anyone you see hide. The gig is up. Person hiding should just move on." - SGM Krash (sounds pretty black and white to me and sane)

Point out Neq and get a big crybaby stating "My rights!" "I hide terrible, but dangit I want to circumvent the game mechanics and just get my way! I don't care about perception or roleplay. I just want my way! Whaa!"

Ask Andraste though and you get a whole different version.... Ignore.

Wow. Policy decision there by gum. Placate whiner's and throw to the wolves game integrity and maturity. Maturity is understanding the realm and other's wishes. Not just one aspect.

Hiway

reg

11:10 AMThis is sad.

It's amazing how nobody is surprised that happened.

I can't say anything else without going off.

edge reg

11:18 AMFrom my PERSONAL experiences in recent years, the GMs have been probably more 'fair' to me than they needed to be. Alfador isn't my first character, and I've decided to pretty much keep him aloof for now. I've only killed like 3 or 4 people and they were all consented duels where they other guy got the first shot. I've heard/seen logs of quite a few stories that SEEM to be extremely unfair. I don't completely not believe them either because I did have a few similar experiences years ago when I tended to violate policy 'often.' Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I definitely don't expect perfect treatment from GMs, but since I've settled down a lot, I've had good experiences, as I've had like 1 violation in the past 2 years and it was for something so outrightly stupid I still have a hard time remembering what the hell I was thinking at the time. I dunno, I'm sure some people have been mistreated but I know that not everyone, who in every right should be a candidate for mistreatment, is. I'm a testiment to that.

Sonic reg

12:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Magister:
2. The warning that Zanagan received was:
Zanagan, this is an official warning, that Vulgarity is against GemStone III policy.
Did you use profanity? If so - that has nothing to do with the slaying

...

quote:
>You say, "ahh you had bravery and heroism you bastard"

I s'pose "bastard" is the vulgarity, but my characters have been called bastards before and nothing has happened to the people that said it. reg

12:33 PMI certainly hope thats not the case - especially since there are bastard swords in game.

If that is the case - pathetic has reached a new low. reg

01:37 PMIf you're going to make the argument that Moxxa wasn't paying attention and said 'yes' because people were pointing at him/her then why would he have not said 'yes?'. 'Yes?' would have meant I don't know what's going on and don't do anything. But 'yes' in the other case states that he agreed to something.

The bottom line Moxxa should be killed IRL for being so stupid and the GM should be fired.

-Pirub reg

03:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Magister:
I certainly hope thats not the case - especially since there are bastard swords in game.
If that is the case - pathetic has reached a new low.

Two different contexts. Bastard sword is referring more to it's mixed heritage; traditionally, calling an illegitimate child a bastard has only been somewhat tactless, due to the other permutations of the word, but not really offensive.

Zan used it as a vanilla insult, not talking about Edge's heritage. Compare the use of bastard in this situation to "retard", if you don't follow. Calling your average person a retard is vulgar; calling a mentally handicapped person a retard isn't - it could just be phrased better. reg

03:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Pirub9:
The bottom line Moxxa should be killed IRL for being so stupid and the GM should be fired.

You have a lot of pent up anger, dont' you? If you're getting this angered over a game, maybe you should distance yourself from it and consider getting professional help. reg

03:34 PMNo kidding Gnomad. And as usual, the point of my post was completely ignored, although I re-read it and I certainly expressed myself clearly.

Moxxa didn't say "Yes." He said "yes"

This means ANY sort of punctuation was missing, and no one can possibly infer whether or not he was stating or asking because of that lack. And as I specified, I blame that entirely on Moxxa. I also think someone should have asked Moxxa, "Was that a statement or a question?" so that everyone witnessing would be sure, one way or another.

But no one bothered to do that, because in GemStone and even in other games, people treat the text like chat and not like any sort of creative writing.

ee cummings wrote poetry. He didn't write conversational literature. Anyone who is capable of reading a novel will know, without any possible doubt, that punctuation is necessary in order to get one's sentiments across in the written conversational form. Anyone too lazy to do this has only themselves to blame if they are misunderstood.

R
reg

03:36 PM

quote:

You have a lot of pent up anger, dont' you? If you're getting this angered over a game, maybe you should distance yourself from it and consider getting professional help.

You make a lot of idiotic assumptions, don't you? By the way, I hardly play GS anymore.

-Pirub reg

04:02 PMI think the response made was vague enough to warrant a request for a clearer reply.

I can easily see your point of view Zan, however, I can also see Moxxa's (sp?) if it was indeed just a case of him not being attentive for a moment.

The boulder in my opinion is not something that should exist in Gem. That being said...at the moment it does so there are special rules that I understand work with it.

Those rules are like this...
1) Do not be surprised if even if you are not involved in a conflict/duel you find yourself breathing impaired.

2) All normal rules and regs of Gemstone, even if they are not enforced constantly, MAY be enforced at any given time.

A simple rule of thumb is...when in doubt...ANY doubt...do not attack/bolt/steal/slash...whatever...as the party in question may complain be it legitimate or not.

Continue the feedback and letters in a calm and reasonable manner and I hope your mess will be straightened out soon Zanagan. reg

05:54 PMGnomad obviously doesn't see the deep symbolic meaning of Pirub's post. Moxxa is a sniveling baby and deserves no more than being lynched with his own umbilical cord.

As for "GM", it is plain to see that his/her outrage about a shortage of grape-jelly donuts and Curel lotion at the local mini-mart is being vented through another pointless lockout of a player. How sad.

Best of luck to Zanagan weaseling his way out of this one, although it looked like Moxxa's 2.4k modem was lagging his java window at the time. The delayed "what" was likely in response to all the pointing and such.

In my opinion, Moxxa should be perma-banned until he gets something better than his horse-and-buggy connection, and Zanagan should receive a 10x RPA for smiting another useless newbie.
-DR00B reg

05:59 PMIn any case, whether Moxxa meant to say "Yes?" or say "Yes.", it's more than clear that it was nothing more than miscommunication between Zanagan and Moxxa and sure as hell doesn't justify a lockout. Hopefully this one will get overturned.

As for the vulgarity warning, I didn't see anything vulgar being said. The closest was the "bastard" thing, and that's hardly vulgar if you ask me, even for a family-oriented-brains-and-guts-and-eyeballs-and-buckets-of-blood-flying-everywhere game like Gemstone, and it's a hell of a lot better than something like:

Guy1 points at Firebyrdd.

Guy1 says, "retard"

OR...

You hear the subdued thoughts of Fizzlewurt echo in your mind:
"Buying 4X Double or Full Leathers... send me a thought if ya sellin!"

You hear the subdued thoughts of Belatone echo in your mind:
"shut up fisslefart"

At least the word "bastard" is an IC word. Calling someone a retard or a fart? Oh yeah, I think that was Robin Hood's favorite thing to call people.

Robin Hood says, "Sheriff of Nottingham, you sir, are a retarded fart!"

Anyway, the bottom line is the GM that locked him out was in the wrong if you ask me. It seemed to me that he was just looking for a reaso to lock him out. As much as Simu denies it, some GMs do let their personal feelings towards someone come into play in instances like this. I'm not saying that was the case in this situation (though it's definitely possible), but I know it does happen.

~ Methais

[This message has been edited by Methais (edited 11-10-2001).] reg

06:48 PMJust out of curiosity, has Moxxa ever participated in a duel?

I'm guilty of often dropping off periods when typing in GS just to expedite my responses. I would estimate about 90% of people in GS do, based on what I see daily.

"yes" is Yes.

If I wouldn't think to question his agreement, I would certainly not expect a crowd of people on the boulder to question his response. In a situation like boulder duels, if you are going to head out there to take part in a "Who wants to take me on?" atmosphere, then you deserve to die if you are not going to pay attention.

Any GM dumb enough to respond to a complaint from a person on the boulder about being killed should given a Swift Kick. It is the one place in Elanthia that is KNOWN to have people taking each other on. Anyone who has been in GS longer than a few days knows what the boulder is.

Aerienne reg

08:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gnomad:
Two different contexts. Bastard sword is referring more to it's mixed heritage; traditionally, calling an illegitimate child a bastard has only been somewhat tactless, due to the other permutations of the word, but not really offensive.
Zan used it as a vanilla insult, not talking about Edge's heritage. Compare the use of bastard in this situation to "retard", if you don't follow. Calling your average person a retard is vulgar; calling a mentally handicapped person a retard isn't - it could just be phrased better.

Regardless of how thin you try to slice the hair - I don't see any worthwhile difference.

Besides, how do you know that Zanagan wasn't referencing that he was in fact, a bastard - and was totally IC about it?

Regardless, my opinion of the 2 issues surrounding Zanagan for "killing the dude", and "saying 'bastard'" - neither are worth a warning. reg

02:06 AMWell, this will be a long post, I am posting sections of two logs. The first is what I saw happen at the boulder, the second is what was discussed between me and the GH I requested assist from.

******************************
>Zanagan asks, "who can i bolt?"
>Summir gestures at Zanagan.
An invisible force guides Zanagan.
>Roanin works his way out of some deep black mithril alloy brigandine.
>Adredrin points at Moxxa.
>Roanin sings a melody.
Roanin sings of Kai's many triumphs, lifting his spirits.
>Seanathon points at Moxxa.
>Parabol points at Moxxa.
>Roanin works his way into some deep black mithril alloy brigandine.
>think to keed to find out my punishment and waiting for thanksgiving so I can get out of here for a few days at leastYou hear the subdued thoughts of Andiago echo in your mind:
"Selling some Imflass alloy ringmail +12.. Decent Damage Padded. 22lbs Hauberk. 59/495 2.8m Think to Andiago!"
>Zanagan asks, "moxxa?"
>You focus your mind on Keeda and think:
"to find out my punishment and waiting for thanksgiving so I can get out of here for a few days at least"
Roundtime 5 seconds.
>Iannerra points at Moxxa.
>The guiding force leaves Parabol.
>Seanathon starts chortling.
>Moxxa says, "yes"
Iannerra chuckles.
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Andiago echo in your mind:
"Selling "darkened rolaren waraxe" very nice show about its elven craftsmenship. 5lbs. 7x. Zested(rub and touch). 90/225. CB:7million to Silvanostar Think to Andiago!"
>The wall of force disappears from around Parabol.
>Larenusia says, "He agreed"
>Zanagan says, "ok then"
>Larenusia nods to Zanagan.
>Roanin asks, "Am I singing it to help you?"
>Roanin peers quizzically at Zanagan.
>Zanagan gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Zanagan gestures at Moxxa.
Zanagan hurls a powerful lightning bolt at Moxxa!
AS: +653 vs DS: +273 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +34 = +454
... and hits for 323 points of damage!
Horrifying bolt of electricity turns chest into a smoking pulp of flesh. No life left there.

* Moxxa drops dead at your feet!

The guiding force leaves Zanagan.
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Andiago echo in your mind:
"Selling a 4x Laen Shield with an Engraved picture of a Dragon for show.. (Aspis Coat of Arms) 70/220. Nice and Iceage. Think to Andiago!"
>Parabol says, "haha"
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Gardanion echo in your mind:
"selling a Veniom-Laced Pyrothag Hide Cuirass, 4x brig, MB:325k"
>Zanagan smirks.
>Ryever says, "..."
>Zanagan gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Zanagan gestures.
>You hear the ghostly voice of Moxxa ask, "what?"
>Larenusia meditates over Moxxa.
Larenusia takes Moxxa's chest damage.
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Keeda touch your mind:
"Ahh..well here's hoping it's not too severe."
>Solkern cackles!
>Edgeleaf begins chuckling at Zanagan.
>Larenusia meditates over Moxxa.
Larenusia takes some of Moxxa's blood loss.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia's chest looks better.
>Suddenly you have the strangest feeling that you are being watched.
The feeling fades as quickly as it came.
>Vaikar snickers.
>Parabol says, "you said yes"
>Summir gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia's chest looks better.
>Solkern says, "NIce"
>Summir gestures at Moxxa.
A luminescent web briefly forms around Moxxa, then fades into the body.
>Solkern nods to Zanagan.
>Roanin stops singing.
Vaikar laughs!
>Larenusia meditates over Moxxa.
Larenusia takes some of Moxxa's blood loss.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Adredrin says, "that was CONSENT"
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Adredrin grins.
>Seanathon says, "dang"
>Ryever asks, "Maybe he was acknowledging the fact that you were speaking to him?"
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Shadt echo in your mind:
"takin offers on my 7x chain hauberk, 59/495."
>Solkern put a fiery scarlet shield in his Pennant Chase knapsack.
>consendI don't understand what you typed.
>Solkern says, "ok ok"
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>consI don't understand what you typed.
Seanathon says, "not to shaby"
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Andiago echo in your mind:
"Dark Green Plate 10x Normal Plate Breakage 69/660... Incredible Stuff.. Think to Andiago!"
>conHealth Points left: 62
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Solkern says, "MY turn ro bolt"
Roanin closes his eyes for a moment.
>Edgeleaf begins chuckling at Zanagan.
>Zanagan says, "Oh I didnt gather that"
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Solkern asks, "edge gimem like 30 mana?"
>Larenusia chuckles.
>Larenusia faces Solkern, closes her eyes and begins chanting. Suddenly, a small bolt of energy arcs between them!

Larenusia opens her eyes, looking slightly drained.
>Edgeleaf faces Solkern, closes his eyes and begins chanting. Suddenly, a small bolt of energy arcs between them!

Edgeleaf opens his eyes, looking slightly drained.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>send 17 solYou hear the subdued thoughts of Drevandor echo in your mind:
"selling an emerald encrusted armband. mb:2K TTM"
>You face Solkern, close your eyes and begin chanting. A small spark leaps from your fingers... but little else happens.
>Edgeleaf works his way into some ancient silver-banded mail.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Solkern gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Sinica echo in your mind:
"But ....it's so...green!"
>Edgeleaf gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Edgeleaf gestures.
His body is surrounded by a dim dancing aura.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia's chest looks better.
>Solkern says, "shwo you guys a REAl BOLT"
>Nedish gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Solkern nods.
>Solkern gestures.
Solkern stands tall and appears more confident.
>Edgeleaf removes a silver mace from in his holy shroud.
>Parabol just went down.
Larenusia begins chuckling at Solkern.
>Zanagan gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Edgeleaf slings a brass-plated shield engraved with the image of a snowcat off from over his shoulder.
Adredrin rubs a glassy black mica amulet.
Adredrin suddenly disappears.
>Zanagan gestures.
>Solkern gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>An arrow flies out of the shadows toward Solkern!
AS: +0 vs DS: +155 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +55 = -70
A clean miss.
>Solkern gestures.
A pearlescent emanation extends outward to encompass Solkern and those nearby.
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Julianaa echo in your mind:
"Where can i meet ye for that flask please? "
>Edgeleaf cackles!
>Solkern removes a blue crystal from in his large sack.
>Larenusia chuckles.
>Solkern rubs a blue crystal.
An invisible force guides Solkern.
>Larenusia meditates over Moxxa.
Larenusia takes some of Moxxa's blood loss.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Tamor echo in your mind:
"aye good color"
>Larenusia meditates over Moxxa.
Larenusia takes some of Moxxa's blood loss.
>Nedish gestures at Moxxa.
Nothing happens.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
You hear the subdued thoughts of Dreamchild echo in your mind:
"2k armband"
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Parabol just arrived.
>Solkern gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Zanagan gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Parabol just went down.
>Zanagan gestures at Edgeleaf.
Solkern gestures at Edgeleaf.
Solkern hurls a stream of water at Edgeleaf!
AS: +99 vs DS: +218 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +19 = -77
A clean miss.
The guiding force leaves Solkern.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Summir gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Summir gestures at Moxxa.
Summir concentrates for a moment then sighs weakly.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Solkern says, "low on spirit"
>Zanagan says, "ahh you had bravery and heroism you bastard"
Solkern nods.
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Gardanion echo in your mind:
"Sellying a BOX FOUND Glyph-Etched Blue Dreamstone Brooch, don't know much about it other than a nice piece of jewelry for the ladies, MB:10k"
>Zanagan bites Edgeleaf!
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Pherago echo in your mind:
"Selling some fine two-handed weaponry: A frosty blue battlesword-- 3x, 200k, a dual-bladed rolaren battle axe-- 4x, earth flares, 300k and a red rolaren footman's hammer, 4x, fire crits! 350k "
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
You hear the subdued thoughts of Drevandor echo in your mind:
"selling an emerald encrusted armband. mb:2K cb:2K Dreamchild"
>Parabol just arrived.
>Parabol joins Nedish's group.
>Solkern put a blue crystal in his Pennant Chase knapsack.
>An arrow flies out of the shadows toward Solkern!
AS: +0 vs DS: +164 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +57 = -77
A clean miss.
>Larenusia meditates over Moxxa.
Larenusia takes some of Moxxa's blood loss.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Shadt just arrived.
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Pherago echo in your mind:
"Selling an airship 'jet black spidersilk cloak.' Many fun actions with this cloak, gain some spidery friends! weighs 8, holds under around 90! asking 300k!"
>Solkern grins at Zanagan.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Parabol says, "that was funny"
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Sadrae echo in your mind:
"Selling a gold-tooled elven long bow....MB 1 coin...CB 0"
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
Apoc is revealed from hiding.
Apoc fires an arrow at Solkern!
AS: +0 vs DS: +164 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +66 = -68
A clean miss.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Rotsaver echo in your mind:
"anyone about that can cast me a disk?"
>Shadt kicks some dirt on the corpse of Moxxa.
Edgeleaf begins chuckling at Zanagan.
Shadt kicks some dirt on the corpse of Moxxa.
>Shadt kicks some dirt on the corpse of Moxxa.
>Apoc starts chortling.
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Nedish asks, "wish to live Moxxa?"
>Solkern shrieks!
>You hear the ghostly voice of Moxxa say, "yes"
>Larenusia gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Larenusia gestures.
Larenusia looks a little better.
>Shadt hisses at Seanathon.
>Zanagan just disappeared.
*****************************

*****************************

*****************************
[Caels's Home]
A black and silver silk rug adorns the dark fel floor of this small room. A deep sandstone firepit, a symbol of Imaera tapestry hanging above it, rests between a jet-inlaid white ash bed and an elaborate carved maoral table pushed up against the fine-grained cherrywood walls. The room holds a strong scent of healing herbs. You also see a dark modwir-framed window, an ebon silk upholstered chair and a door.
Also here: GameHost Somebody.
Obvious exits: none
>Somebody smiles.
>close doorYou close the door.
>pantYou pant.
>'SorryYou say, "Sorry"
>Somebody says, "Not a problem."
> * Wyern Nocturnis joins the adventure.
* Chura Onatia joins the adventure.
'Having gods walk around with ya doesn't do much for ego>You say, "Having gods walk around with ya doesn't do much for ego"
> * Triena Kalene joins the adventure.
* Lord Ahuramazda EmperorDragon joins the adventure.
chuckleYou chuckle.
> * Bladion Proficio joins the adventure.
* Gullstaff Ganderbolt joins the adventure.
* Pulsesaver has disconnected.
* Zelenia Fig'al joins the adventure.
* Banisco returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* the Legendary Lord Tristyen Blazenwood joins the adventure.
* Lokilockbane Lanorhault joins the adventure.
* Semantix returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Somebody says, "We are not considered "Gods". We are an OOC entity."
> * Lady Banisco Oberdale joins the adventure.
* Gwydionn Pryderri joins the adventure.
* Shoolie Carnable joins the adventure.
Somebody says, "We are simply here to help you."
> * Shoolie returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Somebody grins at you.
> * Tishia has disconnected.
* Journeyman Kashia deTalair joins the adventure.
* Callao Angelou joins the adventure.
* Sintik Filmem joins the adventure.
Somebody says, "Koar.. now HE'S a god."
>Somebody gazes heavenward.
> * Aud returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
'I am not sure if you are aware f theis problem yet or not, but my friend was banned last night and we are trying to find out exactly whyYou say, "I am not sure if you are aware f theis problem yet or not, but my friend was banned last night and we are trying to find out exactly why"
> * Silvanostar returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
chuckle * Wickersham returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
>You chuckle.
> * Darkthndr Alleon joins the adventure.
Somebody nods to you.
> * Elanella returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Bocks returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
'To keep talk of you IC though we label you as minor godsYou say, "To keep talk of you IC though we label you as minor gods"
> * Derlus returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
lean somebodyYou lean on Somebody.
> * Venusathena returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Somebody starts chortling.
> * Nevra Farnel joins the adventure.
* Koarman Meqian joins the adventure.
Somebody exclaims, "I don't want people setting up Somebody alters now!"
>Somebody appears to be trying hard not to grin.
>chuckleYou chuckle.
> * Kanein returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
'Why not?!You exclaim, "Why not?!"
> * Rujero has disconnected.
pout>You pout.
> * Lel GallowsBlack joins the adventure.
* Kativan Ristande joins the adventure.
Somebody says, "Ok, sorry. Back to you."
> * Berwin returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Somebody asks, "Who's your friend?"
> * Sraven PlumDove joins the adventure.
'Name in this world is ZanaganYou say, "Name in this world is Zanagan"
> * Kativan returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Lazalye Flowering joins the adventure.
* Lady Venusathena Hentrils joins the adventure.
* Warem Rendale joins the adventure.
Somebody nods.
> * Lord Kelton Qwixstorm joins the adventure.
'I was there when all the stuff was happening that we believe he was banned for, so I have logs of the situation if neededYou say, "I was there when all the stuff was happening that we believe he was banned for, so I have logs of the situation if needed"
>Somebody nods to you.
> * Warem has disconnected.
l somebodyYou see GameHost Somebody or'Nobody the Sylvankind Ranger.
He appears to be somebody or nobody in particular.
He has minor bruises on his neck.
He is wearing a gold star, some full leather, a leather sheath, a heavy backpack, a linen pouch, and a gold star.
> * Menos of-Belorus joins the adventure.
Somebody says, "This is what I can do for you Caels."
> * Lel has disconnected.
* Rujero Garroway joins the adventure.
peer somebodyYou peer quizzically at Somebody.
>trans some neckYou meditate over Somebody.
Somebody's neck damage is transferred to you.
>gaze upYou gaze heavenward.
> * Silvanostar Anticari joins the adventure.
* Lord Lohre Blackmind joins the adventure.
* Traldur has disconnected.
prep 1104You concentrate on the Head Repair spell...
[Spell preparation time: 5 seconds]
>Your spell is ready.
>Somebody says, "I can't say what he was banned for, because I don't know. Even if I DID know, I couldn't tell you as we don't talk about other people's accounts or characters."
> * Banisco returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Chura returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Lord Girran d'Egalitarian joins the adventure.
cure>You concentrate.
Your neck feels better.
Roundtime: 9 sec.
Cast Roundtime 3 seconds.
> * the Legendary Lord Winzaar cheromis joins the adventure.
* Suphia Dyrvish joins the adventure.
sighYou sigh.
> * Lady Banisco Oberdale joins the adventure.
'Can I speak with Everybody?You ask, "Can I speak with Everybody?"
> * Peraldus DeMortel joins the adventure.
* Earthdiver returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Somebody says, "I can however take down what you say happened."
>Somebody says, "And make note of it."
* Kanein Ghostwind joins the adventure.
> * Lord Venstein Starforge joins the adventure.
* Callao has disconnected.
* Tishia Yebelle joins the adventure.
Somebody says, "Everybody will tell you the exact same thing."
'Zan says that Everybody is the one who spoke with him just before the ban>You say, "Zan says that Everybody is the one who spoke with him just before the ban"
> * Sprytle has disconnected.
* Silvanostar returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Sprytle O'Gooflin joins the adventure.
* Kemuel Soulfetcher joins the adventure.
thin * Tishia has disconnected.
>You rub your chin thoughtfully.
> * Choisya Sunbricy joins the adventure.
Somebody says, "Everybody won't talk to you about Zanagan."
>nodYou nod.
> * Balashev Raskolnik joins the adventure.
'Okay>You say, "Okay"
>Somebody says, "But."
> * Tchzin returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Somebody says, "You can direct your concerns to Feedback."
> * Yargon returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Inara returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
nod * Korlos Angelblood joins the adventure.
You nod.
> * Drival returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Silvanostar Anticari joins the adventure.
Somebody says, "As they are the only recourse for you to take right now."
> * Reine returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Somebody asks, "Do you have that address?"
> * Jereicho maviris joins the adventure.
* Alexas returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Hassa babbah joins the adventure.
'feedback@simu.com?Somebody says, "gsfeedback@simutronics.com"
>You ask, "feedback@simu.com?"
> * Aravenne FoolGoddess joins the adventure.
chuckleYou chuckle.
>Somebody says, "Close."
>nodYou nod.
Somebody grins.
> * Shooure azbjourne joins the adventure.
* Rigtaz returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Kestrick Abrimm joins the adventure.
'okiesYou say, "okies"
> * Brandynn Mychaels joins the adventure.
Somebody says, "In that letter, I would tell the circumstances from your point of view."
> * Durithoin has disconnected.
* Lord Fanas Tariskatt joins the adventure.
nod>You nod.
>Somebody says, "And include all unedited logs you may have."
> * Tchzin Formez joins the adventure.
* the Legendary Zelig Fashwater joins the adventure.
You feel at full magical power again.
>Somebody says, "Realize that this will take some time, but unfortunately it's the only path in which you have."
> * Denoue Eptitus joins the adventure.
* Novice Aluralei Almondeyes joins the adventure.
* Aluralei returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Lord Balstraud d'Kraust joins the adventure.
* Menos has disconnected.
* Warem Rendale joins the adventure.
Somebody says, "I would also suggest Zanagan do the same thing."
> * Eliott deWyntar joins the adventure.
* Kestrick returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
'I'm sure he already has...>You say, "I'm sure he already has..."
>Somebody nods.
> * Gotar has disconnected.
* Gotar Driizn joins the adventure.
'Can I mention one thing though?You ask, "Can I mention one thing though?"
> * Yeltsarsious Oselandr joins the adventure.
Somebody exclaims, "NO!"
> * Violenttmoon Meccokren joins the adventure.
Somebody covers his ears.
> * Lady Ravensilk GentleToucher joins the adventure.
Somebody says, "Just kidding."
>chuckleYou chuckle.
>Somebody says, "Feel free."
* Lord Censure Flippant joins the adventure.
>Somebody grins.
> * Bigbeard Barralman joins the adventure.
* Lyrc Alyeska joins the adventure.
* Vixxon Qaid joins the adventure.
* Intros returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Odysseia returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Kheperu returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Xandrar Sharptungg joins the adventure.
* Starhawks returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Runesbane returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Darkthndr returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Maleek returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
'Zanagan said that he was in the holding cell and was told to read the policy, he had to log off, but he came later and read it and then said he had read it, and then he was thrown into the cell with no wanringYou say, "Zanagan said that he was in the holding cell and was told to read the policy, he had to log off, but he came later and read it and then said he had read it, and then he was thrown into the cell with no wanring"
> * Alexas Hilterton joins the adventure.
* Greijona Mah'laine joins the adventure.
* Wyern returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
'For clarification, he was thrown in the lockout cell the second timeYou say, "For clarification, he was thrown in the lockout cell the second time"
> * Taeroch Rhandraghir joins the adventure.
Somebody nods.
> * Aravenne returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Somebody says, "Not sure what you mean."
> * Despaxsas Shalost joins the adventure.
* Rujero has disconnected.
* Rujero Garroway joins the adventure.
peer someYou peer quizzically at Somebody.
>'I can explain if you point out what is notunderstoodYou say, "I can explain if you point out what is notunderstood"
> * Lord Kheperu Kyrala joins the adventure.
* Clista has disconnected.
* Lady Signy Gylfi joins the adventure.
Somebody says, "You say he was put in a lockout cell the second time."
>nodYou nod.
> * Manishka Gangajem joins the adventure.
'He was in the other place atr firstYou say, "He was in the other place atr first"
> * Aristes O'Scrod joins the adventure.
* Gyz returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Draigh returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Runyun McAvine joins the adventure.
'not sure the name, cuz never been thereYou say, "not sure the name, cuz never been there"
>Somebody asks, "Sorry, I've never been in that situation. So the GM's ask you to read policy in one cell, when you are done they put you in the actual lockout cell?"
> * Zelenia returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Koarman returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Derl Grimweln joins the adventure.
* Vimpyrre returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Curea returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Omah returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
> * Zelig returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Cliche Starrstone joins the adventure.
* Megen Hagrar joins the adventure.
* Canastia Kriest joins the adventure.
* Balstraud returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Avalor Avontree joins the adventure.
* Nevra returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Silvanostar returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Valanna returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
'I couldn't tell you... all I know is that he was told to read policy after being given a warning, and then when he read it, he was thrust into the lockout cell... doesn't seem very appropriate to me * Sydraen returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
>You say, "I couldn't tell you... all I know is that he was told to read policy after being given a warning, and then when he read it, he was thrust into the lockout cell... doesn't seem very appropriate to me"
> * Niqk has disconnected.
* Lord Adama Vandgeheist joins the adventure.
* Niqk Cden joins the adventure.
* Megen returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Songdreamer returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Silvanostar Anticari joins the adventure.
* Stefanus D'bujon joins the adventure.
Somebody shrugs.
> * Barintia returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
blush * Vortalix Darkagon joins the adventure.
>You blush a glowing shade of red.
>Somebody says, "I'm sorry, I don't know the interworkings of locking out someone."
> * Thorandor Smada joins the adventure.
* Alysisa Treadlight joins the adventure.
'Clarify - He was in the Consultation lounge firstYou say, "Clarify - He was in the Consultation lounge first"
> * Latonio theCalabrese joins the adventure.
Somebody nods.
>'If that makes any differenceYou say, "If that makes any difference"
>sighYou sigh.
>Somebody says, "Where he was asked to read the policy."
>Somebody nods.
> * Alysisa returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Somebody says, "Once he said he was done, off to the cell."
> * Felisity Mysthaven joins the adventure.
* Magnas McMains joins the adventure.
nodYou nod.
> * Mercni returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Dolofonos Attentat joins the adventure.
* Sephtriroth Deathplauge joins the adventure.
* Rhaelatier Gtharen joins the adventure.
* Barintia Tillerman joins the adventure.
'But they had already warned him, and he didn't know he was being locked out * Brodor stonering joins the adventure.
>You say, "But they had already warned him, and he didn't know he was being locked out"
>Somebody nods to you.
> * Suphia returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Kalanar Chez'Norbandel joins the adventure.
'We are just trying to find out why, exactly, he was locked outYou say, "We are just trying to find out why, exactly, he was locked out"
>Somebody asks, "What were the circumstances in which you thought he was being locked out for?"
> * Warem has disconnected.
* Menos of-Belorus joins the adventure.
* Cunegonde Eldorado joins the adventure.
* Kval returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Ajiki Fire'Forge joins the adventure.
* Machu Atur joins the adventure.
* Lugaid has disconnected.
* Arliquin Foolekiller joins the adventure.
* Menos returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Morstanya returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Warem Rendale joins the adventure.
* Bandishire returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Eleath Dearmon joins the adventure.
* Lady Lonedove Whitewings joins the adventure.
'Well, he got the warning for killing Moxxa at the boulder, even though he was under the impression that Moxxa had agreed.You say, "Well, he got the warning for killing Moxxa at the boulder, even though he was under the impression that Moxxa had agreed."
> * Brodor returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Lord Gurwulf Kriegskleriker joins the adventure.
> * Silvanostar returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Zutzut returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Boeser Redstones joins the adventure.
'Even I thought that it was all in fun and gamesYou say, "Even I thought that it was all in fun and games"
> * Apprentice Valiren Alengar joins the adventure.
Somebody nods.
> * Grimlin Deamoncaller joins the adventure.
* Amphan has disconnected.
* Amphan Armathus joins the adventure.
* Gizoku has disconnected.
* Hodhr Deathbayne joins the adventure.
* Stefanus returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
'But as for the actual lockout, I am not sure if it was because of the murder, or if it was because he logged off before reading the policy>You say, "But as for the actual lockout, I am not sure if it was because of the murder, or if it was because he logged off before reading the policy"
> * Kanein returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Delyian Anduvar joins the adventure.
* Lord Zefar Dhan'er joins the adventure.
* Tazren Al'Vaalor joins the adventure.
* Corneelious returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Tinoth returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Gundther O'Meadra joins the adventure.
Somebody says, "I'm not sure, but I don't think they lock people out for logging out before reading the policy."
>Somebody shrugs.
> * the Legendary Lady Valanna Silv-Vinna joins the adventure.
* Clewan Wylers joins the adventure.
> * Wreniklle Hannaferd joins the adventure.
* Dharkweed returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Jaidaahl returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* the Legendary Jameszz Sawnis joins the adventure.
* Felisity has disconnected.
* Lady Kalynna La'Lynna joins the adventure.
* Choisya has disconnected.
* Callao Angelou joins the adventure.
Somebody says, "Well Caels, I will note all we spoke about this morning."
> * Hodhr has disconnected.
* Gizoku Kosodoro joins the adventure.
* Lord Vendrago Brimstaff joins the adventure.
'I don't think they are into locking out people for killing when the killing is consentual...You say, "I don't think they are into locking out people for killing when the killing is consentual..."
> * Valiren returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Somebody says, "My suggestion though would be to utilize the FEEDBACK email to state your case."
> * Cliche returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Silvanostar Anticari joins the adventure.
'Buit thatnk ye for your time>You say, "Buit thatnk ye for your time"
>nod somYou nod to Somebody.
>'I willYou say, "I will"
> * Rimalisse returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Somebody says, "My pleasure."
> * Elanus Caerules joins the adventure.
* Apprentice Jadess Jutane joins the adventure.
* Lourraine returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Somebody says, "I would also suggest you ask Zanagan to do the same."
> * Murp Grunthop joins the adventure.
'I willYou say, "I will"
>'AlsoYou say, "Also"
>Somebody nods to you.
> * Jadess returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
* Kareese Fen'Tahlon joins the adventure.
* Callao has disconnected.
* Tishia Yebelle joins the adventure.
* Cliche Starrstone joins the adventure.
* Borithium Kes'le-fain joins the adventure.
'If anyone wants to view something of his side of it, it is posted on the boards at http://forum.gsplayers.comYou say, "If anyone wants to view something of his side of it, it is posted on the boards at http://forum.gsplayers.com
> * Sandryne returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
'I know a few of you godly types read those from time to timeYou say, "I know a few of you godly types read those from time to time"
> * Kalynna has disconnected.
* Happiness Warmheart joins the adventure.
* Dovezkry WhisperWillow joins the adventure.
lean somebodyYou lean on Somebody.
>Somebody nods.
> * Ronni Fateema joins the adventure.
* Tchzin returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Somebody asks, "Is there anything else I can help you with Caels?"
> * Alexas returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
'No sir>You say, "No sir"
> * Lord Riyace Passarge joins the adventure.
* Laeonni FreeWynd joins the adventure.
'Have a great dayYou say, "Have a great day"
>Somebody says, "Have a great day Caels."
>Somebody starts chortling.
>chuckleYou chuckle.
>waveYou wave.
> * Seanathon has disconnected.
Somebody exclaims, "Jinx!"
>Somebody opens the door.
>Somebody waves.
> * Jadeanna Dew'petal joins the adventure.
Somebody walks through the door.

------------------
Caels Onae'Rae
AIM : Lord Caels

Emails:
caels_onaerae@hotmail.com
caels@gsplayers.com reg

06:26 AMWell... I know I'll probably take a lot of attacks here for saying this, but...

If this was a trial and I was sitting on a jury presented with this evidence, I would have to say I'd have "reasonable doubt" that this was a consented duel.

In other words, it could have been yes or no.

Actually, I use duel only in a sort of technical sense here, since there was clearly not a smidge of roleplaying going on, and it almost neatly parallels the OOC example given in Policy 4.

Once you extract all the noise and movement, which contributes plenty towards a possible misunderstanding, all you have is this:

Player A: Who can I kill?
Player B: : :points at Player D::
Player C: : :points at Player D::
Player A: Player D?
Player D: yes
Player A: ::waxes Player D::

Had Player A just covered his ass by saying, "Player D, you've agreed to a duel with me?" and Player D responding with, "Yes, Player A, I accept your challenge." then Player A wouldn't have gotten locked out.

Would have been even nicer if there was an IC reason for waxing someone given, rather than a contest better measured with a yardstick.

The failure to get 100% crystal clear consent from the other party is probably the surest way to guarantee someone is going to be unhappy and eventually we'll hear about it.

When the alternative choice is to simply ask in clear, plain speech... you have to wonder sometimes why people fail to do so, and then they complain about it later.

--A.

[This message has been edited by GMAndraste (edited 11-12-2001).] reg

07:07 AM<< In other words, it could have been yes or no. >>

If it could have been yes or no, then it goes in favor of the defendent.

Being guilty for a yes or no situation is pretty unfair.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

08:06 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GMAndraste:
Well... I know I'll probably take a lot of attacks here for saying this, but...

Actually, I use duel only in a sort of technical sense here, since there was clearly not a smidge of roleplaying going on, and it almost neatly parallels the OOC example given in Policy 4.

When the alternative choice is to simply ask in clear, plain speech... you have to wonder sometimes why people fail to do so, and then they complain about it later.
--A.
[This message has been edited by GMAndraste (edited 11-12-2001).]

Where in policy does it state you are "forced" to roleplay again? Andraste you need to find a new line...

Are you the "judge, jury, and executioner" when it comes to deeming what is "roleplay" or not? As long as things are not ooc. I didn't see any complaints from the "majority" of the customers there. I saw a miscommunication.

When you and the rest of your pals there stop looking actively for reasons to nail people to the wall maybe logic and sensibility my just shine through now and then. Like many have said, the person hardly was harassed. His/her time was not affected. A death with nearly instant resurrection and healing took place is not even a minor inconvenience.

Step back and take a big ol deep breath. Take a good gander at the big picture.

Telling people to ignore each other all day isn't going to fix your product nor show any real commitment to clear and reasonable policy. Assuming and mindreading skills that miss the mark are not good elements of customer service either.

Just as you say clearly communicate to the customers then why don't you do the smart thing and do the same collectively as staff for once? Consistency would be the step in the right direction.

Hiway

reg

10:07 AM

quote:
Are you the "judge, jury, and executioner" when it comes to deeming what is "roleplay"
or not? As long as things are not ooc.

The new policy states very clearly the game's stance on role-play so I won't repeat it here.

You continually berate Andraste, and the rest of the GS staff, for inconsistency, yet the very words of: "As long as it's not OOC" shows the lack of consistency within the player base itself.

GS IS a role-playing game. Simply NOT being OOC - as the broad term means to most players of just not spouting off everyday phrases - can by no means be considered as role-playing.

In this entire situation shown by the logs, there was no effort to role-play by any of the parties involved. For those of you that cannot tell the difference between actual role-play and not acting OOC, the real meaning of what Andraste and the other GMs are trying to tell you are going right over your heads.

There needs to be consistency within the players themselves before inconsistency within the staff can be criticized. Get YOUR idea of role-play straight before you jump on the staff. reg

10:58 AMHAHHAHAHA but if you DO RP something quite well, yet possibly controversial, they WON'T ALLOW IT! Where is the consistency there Siara? lol reg

11:03 AMGood point Zanagan...

Quite ironic indeed that you got nailed for RPing and got nailed for not RPing.

I think it's quite clear that SOMEWHERE in the system is a lack of consistency among GMs, and Zanagan got nailed because of it.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

12:07 PMTo be honest I think both Andraste and Siara make valid points.

However, I also feel that a lockout or ban in this situation is a bit harsh. A warning for PvP and the vulgarity warning plus maybe a warning for OOC behavior would be more appropriate.

I don't want to sound like the advocator of MAing, but this is one instance I like being able to do just that. I can test out my new spell with my new CS on one of MY players. Since I am controlling both of them there really doesn't have to be consent nor do I have to roleplay the attack or what have you.

I can test my abush against my reduxed warrior and not really care about getting locked out or banned for unconsented PvP.

I do think it is funny however that when someone steals from you we fall into the same problem. Some GM's say that its consent some say it is not. So one time you can kill someone for stealing, the next time you find yourself taking a 30-60 day vacation for doing what one GM said you could do.

I agree that there needs to be a clearer cut line as to what is consent and what is not, and that needs to come from the GM's. It should be included in policy and it should look clear enough so that everyone can understand it.

So to close my post, if anyone here feels the need in the future to have a max attack or max bolt, or max casting contest if I am around ask me to come be your punch bag. Or use another one of your characters to be the target. I will say before anyone attacks or casts at me...

I, fillinmyname, respectfully request that all the GM's onduty hear and listen to my voice. I am going to be in a series of fights tonight and I want all of you to know that I have given full and unhindered consent to any and everyone that kills, harms, or hurts me tonight. Thank you, this has been a announcment from fillinmyname, goodnight.

Should be enough consent in there for everyone.

Buckwheet
reg

01:37 PM<<If this was a trial and I was sitting on a jury presented with this evidence, I would have to say I'd have "reasonable doubt" that this was a consented duel.>>

Maybe so, but the above example would also mean that Zanagan was on trial for participating in a consented duel, not unconsented PvP.

<<In other words, it could have been yes or no.>>

So there would be reasonable doubt that it was consented, yet also reasonable doubt that it wasn't consented. Mistrial! Release em! <roar>

<<The failure to get 100% crystal clear consent from the other party is probably the surest way to guarantee someone is going to be unhappy and eventually we'll hear about it.>>

That pretty much makes sense, but I think Moxxa should at least be forced to sit in a corner with a dunce cap on for a few hours.

Then again for all we know, maybe Moxxa took advantage of the whole opportunity to get someone locked out. You can't say there aren't snerts like that, that like to try to get people locked out just for laughs. I've dealt with lots of em.

It's obvious that if Moxxa didn't realize what happened at the time, he sure as hell knows the circumstances now. If he was any kind of self respecting person, he would write feedback and/or talk to a GM and tell them that he realized the whole situation was a miscommunication.

Also, to the person that asked in an earlier post if Moxxa has ever participated in a duel:

You hear the subdued thoughts of Moxxa echo in your mind:
"somone wanna come fight me! on the boulder? im 20 and ill take on anyone within 3 trains of me!"

That was last night, but I doubt it's the first time. I feel bad for the anyone that might have dueled him...he probably got locked out too when it was over :/

**********

You hear the subdued thoughts of Aranciaga echo in your mind:
"Moxxa attacked a friend of mine in the street saying he was trying to save his soul. I have to wonder if anything is going right in his head."

Snert.

***********

>You hear the subdued thoughts of Moxxa echo in your mind:
"dont blame me if you are in a TON of trouble... the gods dont give out punshiment unless they SEE a crime..."

Ah, he probably reported first saying "Zanagan's gonna murder me for no reason! Help!"

Snert.

*******

Here's Moxxa's version of the story:

You hear the subdued thoughts of Moxxa echo in your mind:
"Zanagan:Moxxa? Me:Yes BAM DEAD!"

Yeesh, talk about taking things out of context. He was spamming that on the net like every other thought last night

Snert.

***********

You hear the subdued thoughts of Moxxa echo in your mind:
"its hardly stupid i caused one of the ELDERS to get locked out"

Snert. reg

02:11 PMThe phrase "Where are all the cops when you need them?" comes to mind. reg

02:36 PMTo keep stirring the pot - as witches do..

quote:
AHHAHAHA but if you DO RP something quite well, yet possibly controversial, they
WON'T ALLOW IT! Where is the consistency there Siara? lol

To RP that flesh-eater 'well' (if I followed that thread correctly, it was your character that abused the ACT command?), you would not have been spoken to by a GM about such abuse.

Again, you missed the subtle point of what Andraste was saying. RP all you want, but you cannot force another player to feel or see anything that is not there. Nor can you impose your will on another player unknowingly. Meaning, to use the ACT command to act out you eating the fleash of a corpse is an abuse of the command.

The trick to role-playing 'well' is to convince others of your character's traits and personality -- within the confines of the tools given us.

I've seen many characters do 'gross' things without abusing the SMILE or ACT commands. My sister Eratika scratching her hairy armpits comes to mind. With that one small sentence she uses tells us all that..er.. well, she's not the cleanest lil person around.

I see no inconsistency in what the GMs have said. Role-play your characters without the abuse of ACT or SMILE. You cannot make happen within an ACT or SMILE command things that do not exisit or occur within the game itself.

You could have LICKED the corpse. EAT it. SNIFFED it. DROOLED over it. There's many things availible, with a bit of thinking, that would have given the players around you some clue to your characters personality without abuse of ACT. reg

02:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Siara:
The new policy states very clearly the game's stance on role-play so I won't repeat it here.
You continually berate Andraste, and the rest of the GS staff, for inconsistency, yet the very words of: "As long as it's not OOC" shows the lack of consistency within the player base itself.
GS IS a role-playing game. Simply NOT being OOC - as the broad term means to most players of just not spouting off everyday phrases - can by no means be considered as role-playing.
In this entire situation shown by the logs, there was no effort to role-play by any of the parties involved. For those of you that cannot tell the difference between actual role-play and not acting OOC, the real meaning of what Andraste and the other GMs are trying to tell you are going right over your heads.
There needs to be consistency within the players themselves before inconsistency within the staff can be criticized. Get YOUR idea of role-play straight before you jump on the staff.

I am not constantly berating anyone. I am pointing at inconsistent behavior. If you roleplay and do something to another character ie stealing then that is a roleplay action. It is not "forcing" them to roleplay. Part of the complaint I have is the GM's do not simply understand the environment of Gemstone. People that play the game should understand the mechanics and act maturely.

Pointing out a hider is a roleplay act. It is a roleplay game. But according to Andraste some sort of roleplay must follow. Why? Are not actions good enough? If someone "watches" me and keeps an eye on me is that not some sort of action? Does it require them to announce to the whole wide world around them they do not trust me?

Do thieves have to jump through hoops and state to everyone and anyone simple easily seen through childish statements that elude they are stealing? That is roleplaying a hack if you ask me. "Hey sure getting some coins here. Some leaking pockets here." ::gag::

Sure I am going to get mad about Andraste because she is an extreme hypocrit over roleplay issues. She sticks her nose in any old conflict that she notices. She disrupts consented conflicts continuously with NPC's and send messages. Just because a few people who are there do not accept the game as a Roleplay one.

It is a catch 22. One time she states if people complain about roleplaying and this magical number reaches some mysterious threshold then she sends and disrupts something where those offended or disturbed could just move on to a different area. Most of the time in my experience these same "talk behind your back" types actually get off on reporting you without even giving you the common decency of letting you know what you are doing disturbs them with a simple whisper.

That my friend is the snert. They actually come to this game and enjoy getting people into trouble with staff over simple things that truly do not bother them one bit and if they did they could just move on.

And yes most of my experience is from people who come into a room after the people involved are ALREADY there.

When people complain about a little interaction that really doesn't even involve them and for the last three hours not even a squeek has been made in an area I just am dumbfounded with disbelief.

That is gemstone III. It is a place where people use the medium to be vindictive to players and not characters. Too many can't even fathom the difference between a player and their character.

Seems the same is for some certain heady GM's.

Getting a life seems to help and is well prescribed to those who can't.

Hiway
reg

03:17 PMact plucks a blade of grass from the ground and sniffs it

uh oh, abuse of the act command.

ban that mutha.

'lood reg

03:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by kelood:
act plucks a blade of grass from the ground and sniffs it

uh oh, abuse of the act command.
ban that mutha.
'lood

'lood even though sometimes we have agreed to disagree over somethings there are moments when you just say the right thing.

Hiway - got a good chuckle

reg

03:31 PMi'll talk about the proper roleplaying thing to do.

his character heard him say "yes", he did not hear him ASK "yes".

what his character heard was a statement, not a question.

end of discussion.

'lood
reg

04:09 PM<<I see no inconsistency in what the GMs have said>>

Guess you see only what you want to see. Not the facts. Nice world. Can you show me the way to it?

But I think Moxxa should have said 'yes?'....not 'yes'. But you are a hateful person and want everyone that disagrees with your thoughts to be deeded, killed, kicked out of the game. So you will always ignor the facts and see what you want to see.

I disagree with Andraste on some things. But I will tell you what I like about her. She does wonderful merchants. Does some of the best alters I have seen. Very helpfull when doing them. But I do think that she is to motherly. Meaning, she tries to baby people. The motherly instint or whatever.

But if you ignor the facts and truth of the matter. Then you are hopelessly blinded by Staff or you are part of staff. By doing that. Nobody has any respect for what you got to say or for you.

The Zanagan issues smacks of a personal vendetta.

But on the other hand. When you make enemies, they will come back to bite you in the arse.

Bottom line. This didn't deserve a banning.

edge reg

06:29 PMI was sent this email by a friend. The rudeperson is Moxxa. Was a post on the official boards.

The poster was:
MINQUE from PLAY.NET (Cerri- kirsy.oldbattery.com/)

Zanagan, you need to write this person and get the original log and send it to lockout.

--------------------------------------------

Rudeperson just arrived.

Rudeperson just purchased a bronze bar from the clerk Samilla.

You concentrate on the Organ Scar Repair spell... Your spell is ready. You concentrate. Your chest feels better. Roundtime: 35 sec. Cast Roundtime 3 seconds.

[Public Workshops Supply Stall] A tin-clad counter occupies the center of the stall, and a large sign hangs from the main post that rises in the stall's center. An almost grim faced half-elf, with broad shoulders and muscled biceps, stands behind the counter, a polished mithril toothpick held in her teeth. You also see a field mouse who is sitting, a field mouse who is sitting, the Oreh disk, the Cerridween disk, the clerk Samilla, a large placard, a wooden sign and some forging workshops. Also here: Rudeperson and a lot of other people in line. Obvious paths: south.

Rudeperson glances over at the workshops and sighs.

You say, "*next person*, you're up."

*next person* glances over at the workshops and sighs.

You glance at rudeperson.

*next person* says, "rudeperson"

You say, "rudeperson, wait in line."

rudeperson glances over at the workshops and sighs.

*next person* says, "there is a line"

You see rudeperson the Giantman. He appears to be in his 50's, has short, straight sandy blond hair, blue eyes, and tanned skin. He is in good shape. He is holding a bronze bar in his right hand.

rudeperson glances over at the workshops and sighs.

*next person* says, "rudeperson?"
*next person* says, "You jump line and 10 people will be waiting"

rudeperson glances over at the workshops and sighs.

You gesture at rudeperson. Strands of webbing shoot forth towards rudeperson.
CS: +151 - TD: +60 + CvA: +25 + d100: +59 - +5 == +170
Warding failed! rudeperson is firmly webbed in place. Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You ask, "Please don't cut, alright?"

You smile at rudeperson.

rudeperson says, "dont cast at me anymore cerridween"

*next person* says, "Thank you Cerridween"

rudeperson says, "or ill hurt you"

You say, "I won't, but we're waiting in line."

The webs dissolve from around rudeperson.

You say, "Common curtesy."

rudeperson removes a dir hafted vultite waraxe from in his threaded harness.

rudeperson swings a dir hafted vultite waraxe at you!
AS: +223 vs DS: +38 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +4 = +219
... and hits for 80 points of damage!
Your right hand falls to the ground, independently of your arm.
You are stunned for 7 rounds!

rudeperson says, "dont cast at me"

bystanderd1 glances at rudeperson. bystanderd2 glances at rudeperson. bystanderd3 gasps.

As rudeperson heads toward the workshops, the clerk collects some silvers from him and points toward a vacant one.

-------------------------------------------

Oh but wait. These are the types of people you want in the lands. Right Siara?

Moxxa is a classic example of the type of person that wants to be in character - until such time as there is a potential downside for doing so - then its, REPORT, REPORT, REPORT

Lot of those type of people.

edge

[This message has been edited by edge (edited 11-12-2001).] reg

06:45 PMMoxxa has a dir-hafter? So much for the "I'm an ignorant and purely innocent victim" image.

More and more this smells to me of some older established persona that is using Moxxa to set up others to get in trouble.

Its real easy to use some piss-ant young character to harass others - you simply don't have that much to lose if you eventually get in trouble yourself.

Gemstone...where you roleplay until you have a downside - then REPORT! reg

07:09 PM"The trick to role-playing 'well' is to convince others of your character's traits and personality -- within the confines of the tools given us."

Ya, god forbid someone get like...I donno, slightly creative and make use of the ACT command heh. And as I've said before, no one whispered to me telling me to not RP in such a manner to them, which is what MOST people would do if they were that uncomfortable with the whole issue.

And thanks for posting that Moxxa log. He really looks like an model Elanthian citizien that should have his reports taken very seriously...um ya

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa reg

07:57 PMIf anything, the GMs need to start watching this idiot Moxxa, and take all his snert actions into consideration when reviewing Zanagan's lockout.

I hope he asks me for spells sometime. reg

08:22 PMOk I have a question for you Siara and if you want to reply you may also Andraste. Cause this is needed to back up your points. What do you consider roll playing? In the log where I seen Zanagan get booted, I seen role play. Perhaps it was not the best role play in the world, but it was role play. Yah know basically everything done in this game is role play as long as it doesn't go out of text and brings the real world into it. Basically that is my view. And if you can prove that killing someone in a dual is role play when kept in context then I will admit I am wrong.

Lord Deprav reg

08:30 PMObviously the ideal role they want you to play is that of one that assumes the kneeling position.

-DR00B reg

12:02 AMZanagan/Mike, how many warnings have you had previously? Every account?

It's no question that you're in a sticky situation. The "yes" could be construed in both ways, so it's understandable that you'd get pulled up in the consultation lounge.

I'm not saying it's your fault, I think it's just a misunderstanding. But if your account is A LOT of warnings, it doesn't help plead your case. Can you understand that if someone has a lot of previous violations, it's likely they're the ones with the problem?

Good luck with the situation.

Bianca reg

04:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by edge:
I disagree with Andraste on some things. But I will tell you what I like about her. She does wonderful merchants. Does some of the best alters I have seen. Very helpfull when doing them. But I do think that she is to motherly. Meaning, she tries to baby people. The motherly instint or whatever.
edge

Thanks Edge... I think ::chuckle::

Yes, I've actually been told by players and GMs alike, including some of the SGMs, that I am too nice, I give a misbehaving player too many chances when they should have been locked out, and that I spend too much time with problem players trying to help them. Fine with me... I'd rather help someone turn the corner and find a way to become a contributing member of the GemStone III community than lock them out.

But even I have limits to how many second chances I can give, and how many times a player can abuse that second (third and fourth) chance.

Those who see me in a consultation lounge are generally lucky. Not only do I spend the time to talk with them about what happened and why they are there, they generally walk away... when almost any other GM might have just said adios, have a nice 30-day vacation.

If that's being motherly, I think I can live with it

Sure I'll send in NPCs or messaging to try to diffuse a situation. It's more IC and it's also a reminder that things are getting to the point of violating policy. You have to understand that the reason why it is being done is because someone generally REPORTS the situation. And when a situation is reported, we will look into it. The key to not getting reported is to not violate or SKIRT policy, know where the line is when you are in conflict with someone -- is it still CvC or is it PvP -- and being able to figure that out, you know when to pull back. And to know when the situation is becoming disruptive.

If you're going to be the kind of character that constantly pushes peoples buttons, then you're also going to have to accept the responsibility of your actions, and as I said, know when those actions begin to tread on policy, then be smart enough to insure you don't violate it. You also have to realize that not everyone here enjoys conflict, they don't come here to roleplay conflict, and you can't force them to do so.

And for those who seem to read my posts and seem to have missed the few times I have posted this... here is a re-posting of the infamous page 2 of Policy:

Role-playing

--A.
reg

05:04 AM[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lord Deprav:
Ok I have a question for you Siara and if you want to reply you may also Andraste. Cause this is needed to back up your points. What do you consider roll playing?

What do I consider roll-playing? I consider ROLL-playing something someone does because they are only here for the uber-character they ROLLed up -- to hunt and advance, and they don't care about interacting with others in a manner that fits into the genre of the game. They don't add any depth of character to their persona, and don't take part in non-merchant quests or other roleplaying events.

If you want to see an example of ROLEplaying (as opposed to ROLLplaying)... check out some of the player web sites that have logs of such quests -- Stone Valley, Terate, Meyno, Shrine of Leya.

I'm sure you meant ROLEplaying, but I couldn't let the difference pass unexplained

In the log where I seen Zanagan get booted, I seen role play. Perhaps it was not the best role play in the world, but it was role play.

That part might be, however the part of the log surrounding the events that initially started this thread, which is the discussion about whether Zanagan should have been banned for waxing Moxxa, really is devoid of any roleplaying. And the reason I harped on the roleplaying aspect was because this IS a roleplaying game, in every public room of the game, and it almost perfectly paralleled the example of OOC conflict given in Policy 4.

Yah know basically everything done in this game is role play as long as it doesn't go out of text and brings the real world into it. Basically that is my view. And if you can prove that killing someone in a dual is role play when kept in context then I will admit I am wrong.

I'm not sure what you mean by this exactly. I can not agree that everything or everyone here is roleplaying, simply because I see way too many examples on a daily basis that they are not, and they have to be reminded that they are in a roleplaying environment -- or they have absolutely zero roleplaying skills, perhaps because they are new to the game, and need to learn by example.

If you'll go back to Policy 2, perhaps a key phrase worth noting is:

GemStone III is a Role-playing Game. This means that players interact in the world playing the part of their characters in a medieval fantasy environment.

If you honestly feel that you are roleplaying and can fit into a medieval environment, great! It doesn't mean you have to speak in old or middle English... But walking around saying "'Sup bro" "Pimpin' ho's" "Nigga" "Fag" or any other number of similar modern words/phrases/slang we see every day... then that person only contributes to bringing the real world in, instead of building on the magic of fantasy.

As for duels, one more time I will post the example given in Policy 4:

...Another example, the classic duel (Character 1: You have insulted my honor and I must defend that to the death! Character 2: Have at thee Knave!) is on the surface acceptable, but on the other hand saying dueling (Player 1: Wanna duel? Player 2: Yeah) isn't as it can be considered OOC.

If you can see the difference between the two, congratulations, you know the difference between being in-genre and in-character and being out-of-genre/character.

If you can't see the difference, therein lies your problem here... and perhaps you might want to consider how or from whom you can learn the difference.

--A.

[This message has been edited by GMAndraste (edited 11-13-2001).] reg

07:32 AMOk I can accept your answer Andraste. Although I would just like to point things out to you. You say "Wanna duel" is ooc. Thats is wrong. Two people can role play rather easily with eachother and get rather jealous. They could be rather upset with eachother and want to prove a point. Yes you know what I mean by role playing. My dictionary lacks spelling sometimes.

I have a friend who looks at everything as interesting. Well he brought this to my attention, but not on purpose. He might not even know that I got this from him. But here it goes. Everything that is done is in fate. The reason that I say this is because we all are role players ni everything we do in this world. You can chose how you want your life to be. You chose your actions and your words. We are role playing in our lives that we are role playing in a game. Everytime you touch the keyboard or read or word that I am saying you are role playing in your life in someway shape or form.

So this is how I have always played gemstones. The littlest, dumbest things that people may consider people to be ooc, I put in a role playing perspective through gemstones.

I guess I just wanted to give you Andraste and anyone whom is keeping up with these posts and ideas to know my knowledge towards this game and the real world.

Lord Deprav
"My heart is broke, but I have some glue." reg

08:10 AMAndraste my main complaint is just treat everyone the same. Special handling and treatment are actually something that can't be done for everyone all the time by all GM's even if it is you.

Sometimes GM's push buttons and cause more disruption with PLAYER's by telling them what to do or not to do.

If PLAYER'S buttons are getting pushed in a ROLEPLAY game that is NOT for you to mother. If they report something and all actions/speech are in character then tell them plainly as a GAME MASTER what the game is about. If the PLAYER feels that they are NOT ENJOYING an encounter then they can move on. This facilitates all sorts of ROLEPLAYED personalities (good, loving, caring, neutral, annoying, cocky, condescending, evil, mean, etc).

A CHARACTER in a roleplay game should be one that can have a unique personality. In Gemstone III if another PLAYER can not distinguish reality from fantasy and takes ROLEPLAYED aspects from another CHARACTER personally then who is really at fault? The GM's? The Policy? The Game design? NONE!

The responsibility lies in the player. Way too many times GM's validate disruption and harassment by simple one line statements made by characters with in character speech. This creates an environment that makes it sticky at best to delineate the lines between in and out of character. Gemstone for years has been guilty of this, both player's and staff.

A perfect example is harassment. I remember quite distinctly a consultation with you when I reported ooc actions taken by Damianee and Wudrifft once. The player of Damianee had the audacity once we were out of character while you were there seeing the whole thing ridicule me the real person. He/she rolled on the ground and laughed hysterically making fun of the fact that I was a 34 year old man playing this game. And even insulted my real profession. All the while you just stood there as a staff member supposedly providing some sort of environment where people should not take one iota of player harassment. That player should in my book have had a month lockout for treating a real person like that.

I have NEVER treated a PLAYER with any sort of behavior such as that. I have treated character's with my character in a mean comment or even argued, but I repeat I NEVER have meant the comments to hurt the player behind that character. I have ALWAYS listened and honored ANYONE asking me as the player requests to stop a certain roleplay.

The people I can't respond to or even know what they want are those who don't do a single thing to let me know a roleplay is going bad. These same people will report without the other even knowing the behavior is upsetting to them. I think a great deal of those reports are flimsy at best.

Treat all the customers the same. This isn't some CRIME happening, it is a GAME. As it stands in my opinion you are creating a huge divide in the type of people that come to Gemstone.

-Darren H. (Hiway) reg

08:27 AMAnother short example.

I was playing Sect my rogue and throughout the day I noticed parked out the rogue guild a wizard who was standing just outside the entrance.

I try to interact or roleplay with the wizard and get no response. So I have my character hide and see if he can get a few coins from a dazed wizard in the realm of Elanthia. Roleplayed reasons and motive.

Well along comes another rogue and all of a sudden the wizard comes to life and starts spelling the rogue up. Well this goes on for a few cycles and another friend comes in after the rogue leaves that is all aglow with the wizard spells. I tell my friend that this wizard is loaded and we take liberty of his coins and loot.

Time rolls on and I have since left the area. On the crystal amulet thoughts this same said character sends me a thought saying not to steal or harass his other character. Seeing right off the bat that this guy is not roleplaying and mad I simply ask politely as the player that if he were to move his wizard out of the entrance to the guild then his character would be safer of thieving etc. In character reasoning would tell the reasonable man that avenue would be logical and prudent.

I do not argue with him. I ask him nicely. I also tell him it is a bit discerning as the player to see in a highly traveled spot a multi account unresponsive character. I tell him it is distracting to my roleplay environment and robs the immersive atmosphere I try to find.

FACT I can't as the player avoid this other character in my character's travel in and out of the guild. Sure I could as the player ignore him, but why should we reward people that do this sort of activity in an open spot. Everytime I see the activity it does disrupt my gaming environment because I know as the player that he is multi accounting.

Small review. I ask nicely (thank you's please etc) to the person these desires. I do NOT FORCE OR DICTATE to him that this is policy or even remotely tell him he has to do anything. I simply tell him I will assist if it continues (future tense).

Well the conversation ends and I don't notice the wizard there anymore. A few days later I get an email where this incident was reported and I was told that I was dictating to another player policy about multiaccounting.

::Blink::: Now does anyone even follow me here? What should I have done? Are not my desires legitimate in a roleplay game? Did I talk behind the other guy's back and run to GM's and report the matter without giving him the common courtesy of my concern? No. I gave him my OPINION. I didn't wave the REPORT flag at him in any way. I can't control him if I wanted to.

This all sinking in yet? I know I must be a minority in the lengths I go to respect other players, and it ends up bitting me in the end. I go that extra mile with people. I try my darndest to respect their wishes, but at the same time I come to the game to ROLEPLAY.

Hiway reg

08:33 AM

quote:
If you can see the difference between the two, congratulations, you know the
difference between being in-genre and in-character and being out-of-genre/character.
If you can't see the difference, therein lies your problem here... and perhaps you might
want to consider how or from whom you can learn the difference.

Bingo!

I have learned that arguing the nuances and subtitles of role-playing is pointless. Either you get it, or you don't.

Some of you applaud Kelood's example as it being contradictory to the abuse of the ACT command. Again I'll say, if you cannot see and understand the difference between a character eating the flesh from a corpes (another player) and one plucking a blade of grass, then I cannot help you nor will I continue to argue the point.

The same goes for, "Hey man, wanna duel?" "Who can I bolt?"

Again I'll repeat, simply not speaking in OOC/OOG terms does not mean you are role-playing.

To bring this back on topic, none of us know, except for the parties involved, how many pervious warnings have been wracked up by either of these players. Players continually walk the fine line and push the limits, then turn around and complain when the GMs have finally had enough and lock them out.

Some of you (not all, judging your use of gammer) have the intelligence to know exactly what you are doing. There just seems to be this whole group that gets the biggest kick out of pushing the limits and then complaining once the higher-ups have had enough of your disruption and lock you out. reg

08:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Siara:
Bingo!
The same goes for, "Hey man, wanna duel?" "Who can I bolt?"
Again I'll repeat, simply not speaking in OOC/OOG terms does not mean you are role-playing.
To bring this back on topic, none of us know, except for the parties involved, how many pervious warnings have been wracked up by either of these players. Players continually walk the fine line and push the limits, then turn around and complain when the GMs have finally had enough and lock them out.
Some of you (not all, judging your use of gammer) have the intelligence to know exactly what you are doing. There just seems to be this whole group that gets the biggest kick out of pushing the limits and then complaining once the higher-ups have had enough of your disruption and lock you out.

Actually I think whatever a character does as long as it is not ooc or oog then that is the 'stuff' that is input to the system. If that elder wizard acts in such a way then my character just views him as a bully and a braggard. Death in the game is not death as we think of it outside of the game. Death is meaningless in the game. The number of healers and clerics that can instantly restore your character back to normal is astonishing. Simutronic's has made it that way, no one else.

Being a moron or a simpleton is roleplay. Your character is how he or she is perceived by the other characters. It is that simple.

In my opinion it isn't for Siara's player or even Andraste to judge how good or bad the roleplay of another individual is or isn't.

The sad thing is people do not let roleplay integrity rule the day. They will suck up and interact with people that just because they are of high level even though they have no merit beyond that.

Sure my character will respect the 'power' but otherwise just stays clear of the oddity.

Hiway

reg

09:02 AM

quote:
In my opinion it isn't for Siara's player or even Andraste to judge how good or bad the
roleplay of another individual is or isn't.

I don't judge another player's role-playing skill, or lackthereof, unless they plaster it on the boards and then cry, 'look! I'm role-playing and still get GM interference'.

He asked why and was told why ::shrugs::

I would much rather have the person that 'role-plays' by not being OOC/OOG, than have that Gang Banger Kewl Dude, but I don't comment on their skills -- unless they've posted in an open forum with a title of: Your thoughts on this style of Roleplaying

::thinks::

Don't want comments on your RP skills, don't post asking for comments.
reg

09:10 AMAre you claiming my topic "Your Thoughts On This Style of Roleplaying" was OOC/OOG?

Had you witnessed how I played Zarosa in plat at all, not even just based on his cannibalism I think you would feel differently. My gemstone career will always revolve on some of the negative things I may of done while playing Zanagan. It is impossible for some people to comprehend that someone can change the way they play one character from that of a new character who they planned on RPing without flaws etc. Siara, your whole last post was based on my past heh.

Mike

Zanagan?arosa reg

09:12 AM<<>Zanagan asks, "who can i bolt?"
>Summir gestures at Zanagan.
An invisible force guides Zanagan.
>Roanin works his way out of some deep black mithril alloy brigandine.
>Adredrin points at Moxxa.
>Roanin sings a melody.
Roanin sings of Kai's many triumphs, lifting his spirits.
>Seanathon points at Moxxa.
>Parabol points at Moxxa.
>Roanin works his way into some deep black mithril alloy brigandine.
>think to keed to find out my punishment and waiting for thanksgiving so I can get out of here for a few days at leastYou hear the subdued thoughts of Andiago echo in your mind:
"Selling some Imflass alloy ringmail +12.. Decent Damage Padded. 22lbs Hauberk. 59/495 2.8m Think to Andiago!"
>Zanagan asks, "moxxa?"
>You focus your mind on Keeda and think:
"to find out my punishment and waiting for thanksgiving so I can get out of here for a few days at least"
Roundtime 5 seconds.
>Iannerra points at Moxxa.
>The guiding force leaves Parabol.
>Seanathon starts chortling.
>Moxxa says, "yes"
Iannerra chuckles.
>You hear the subdued thoughts of Andiago echo in your mind:
"Selling "darkened rolaren waraxe" very nice show about its elven craftsmenship. 5lbs. 7x. Zested(rub and touch). 90/225. CB:7million to Silvanostar Think to Andiago!"
>The wall of force disappears from around Parabol.
>Larenusia says, "He agreed"
>Zanagan says, "ok then"
>Larenusia nods to Zanagan.
>Roanin asks, "Am I singing it to help you?"
>Roanin peers quizzically at Zanagan.
>Zanagan gestures and utters a phrase of magic.
>Zanagan gestures at Moxxa.
Zanagan hurls a powerful lightning bolt at Moxxa!
AS: +653 vs DS: +273 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +34 = +454
... and hits for 323 points of damage!
Horrifying bolt of electricity turns chest into a smoking pulp of flesh. No life left there.

* Moxxa drops dead at your feet!

The guiding force leaves Zanagan.>>

So....rather then asking Moxxa again, to make sure, you just prep up and cast? Moxxa gets blame for being on the boulder. You get blame for not making absolutely sure that he agrees. Maybe he meant "yes?" and had a typo...I know none of you ever had a typo. Knowing that you have the warnings you do, it is YOUR responsibility to consider every action you take.

"Will that guy report me just to get me thrown out? Perhaps I would be better off not killing anyone since I do have one foot out the door".

Do any of you think? Moxxa maybe a twit. I don't know him, but I do know that if I had the history Zan did, I darn well wouldn't be "Bolting" anyone for the fun of it.

Oh, and roleplay doesn't even enter into the question here. Lack of common sense and being a bunch of crying "victims" is all I see in this thread.

All Knowing. reg

09:19 AMMy character dosen't take into account another PLAYER'S possible typos. The tone of a voice is different when they are responding with "yes?" rather than "yes."

You are right, I do need to be cautious because I have a few warnings in the past, that is why this came as such a surprise, because there was no malicious intent of the bolt, it was just seeing who could put up the higher bolt. I could of logged in a secondary account if I felt that nervous that this could possibly be a problem. Notice there was no reaction in the log by any person that was like shocked by what happened or was getting on my case about killing him. reg

10:01 AM<< I could of logged in a secondary account if I felt that nervous that this could possibly be a problem. >>

Hobgoblins are just a step outside and they gen like crazy when the boulder is packed.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

10:13 AMOh come on. Trying to say that this log deserves a banning whether you got a ton of warnings or none is a load of crap.

GMs are NOT suppose to use personal feelings. They could have investigated this fully instead of being lazy and just banning. There was plenty of witnesses.

Zanagan is NOT responsible for typos. It was not with cruel intentions. It was NOT to ruin someones gaming enjoyment. Hell, it was on the boulder where it's clear that people are killing each other and fights happens.

As I said before. It smacks of a personal vendetta. But, GMs don't have to be fair. Seems to me the GM went out of their way to ban Zanagan over OOC reasons. That is my hunch.

edge

reg

01:51 PMI don't need a hunch here. I know.

Funny also do you guys notice when something blatantly messed up by a staff member there always wanders in a newly registered person who seems to be in the know and supports the staff.

The wonders will never cease...

Hiway reg

03:07 PM<<2. The warning that Zanagan received was:
Zanagan, this is an official warning, that Vulgarity is against GemStone III policy.

Did you use profanity? If so - that has nothing to do with the slaying.>>

Excuse me, did this ever get addressed? It was the first thing I noticed out of the GM upheaval log...Did he press the wrong button?

The GM seemed to be pointing out the problem with killing someone unconsentually (whatever), but didn't mention vulgarity.

Looked like an accidental warning to me.

Plus an overanxious lockout GM...who doesn't like Zanagan much.

reg

05:24 PM<< Funny also do you guys notice when something blatantly messed up by a staff member there always wanders in a newly registered person who seems to be in the know and supports the staff. >>

Just to offset that...

We also usually get like 3 or 4 new members who don't agree with staff.

Hey... if it gets more people involved with the Player's Corner and is cause for further discussion, it's all good.

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard reg

08:26 PMWhat struck me as odd about what happened, as shown by the posted log, was that all these people were pointing at another person to be the appointed victim. Moxxa never volunteered. He was volunteered by others. That really left me scratching my head. Gotta wonder what was going on there. reg

11:49 PMMy guess is he was acting like an idiot since he arrived there, hence everyone pointing at him for the next bolt. reg

10:29 AMThere are two things that I gather about Moxxa that both point to him being a douchebag.

1: he was the only person to be volunteered to be blasted, by like five people that.

2: he reported over something so stupid.

When I read the log I really don't THINK he was agreeing to being blasted, however I can easily understand how Zanagan might, in the heat of the moment, see 'yes' then hit the prep 910\rcast \?\r macro.

As for the vulgarity violation, what is that about? Simu is stupid if they are going to censor things that FOX and NBC and ABC don't. Bastard, bitch, ass, damn, hell, who cares they aren't bad. If they offended you you should stop playing GS and go read your bible or something because you have bigger problems.

Sonic reg

10:55 AMIf you and edge were testing casting strengths, why weren't you casting at each other, would of saved being banned.

Simply Grogg reg

11:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by LordGrogg:
If you and edge were testing casting strengths, why weren't you casting at each other, would of saved being banned.
Simply Grogg

Don't you love advice from the peanut gallery after something has already happened and when they were not even there?

Gotta love those Monday morning quarterbacks.

Not saying I agree with anyone, but I think both Moxxa's player and the GM's need to relax.

Hiway

reg

12:27 PMBecause SOlkern asked me to come there and bolt him. The everyone else showed up. Zanagan wanted to try and beat my bolt...etc.

That is NOT the issue here. The issue is the unfair, uncalled for banning of Zanagan.

Simutronics doesn't want to police their GMs. LIke I said before. Pay someone McDonald wages and you get McDonalds service.

Hard to get quality people with good ethics or morals when you don't pay them what they are worth.

Maybe that is why items are still being created in the lands. They know who is doing it. But they turn a blind eye or getting a kickback. Who knows.

edge reg

12:32 PMI think he brings up a valid point.

'lood
reg

01:21 PM<<Hard to get quality people with good ethics or morals when you don't pay them what they are worth.>>

Or pay them at all. Almost all the GMs are pretty much volunteer slaves. reg

02:20 PMWhere is the NSX's gas money gonna come from then?

Sonic reg

11:45 AM>>My guess is he was acting like an idiot since he arrived there, hence everyone pointing at him for the next bolt.<<

That was rather the feeling I got, Methais. Hence, those folks weren't doing Zan any favors, wouldn't you say?

Not that they would have KNOWN that Moxxa would report the killing, but...by volunteering someone else as a victim, they were taking the chance that Moxxa would, in fact, report. Pretty safe chance to take, when you're not the one who'll end up in the hotseat if it IS reported.

Just another way of looking at it, is all... reg

07:30 AMI will never understand, why, the gms get involved in PvP issues that are obviously consented.

I know this is a roleplaying game, but, the game does not ENFORCE roleplaying. I am allowed to sit there and talk about AS/DS because it is a game mechanic. Is it smiled upon? No. Fact its pretty lame, but i can sit there and go "Gimme brills" or "bleedin 15 per" or "swing at me"

Now tell me
If i can say "Swing at me"

Why cant someone ask to swing at them?
why does pvp have to be roleplayed, but nothing else HAVE to be roleplayed
To me this sounds like a cheap excuse to nab people.

You GM's keep the system open for pvp. You allow players to attack another player, because it would be stupid otherwise. "Duh its a roleplaying game but icant swing at my friend".. etc. It would close too many opportunities.
Explain to me why it HAS to be roleplayed?.. But wait.. it has to be CONSENTUAL roleplay. Fine..
If im allowed to go in game, and swing at rcitters, and power level, and not be obligated to roleplay at all .. (i wont get favors, but i wont get booted either as long as i follow the OOC rules)
Why is a CONSENTED pvp fight so different.

why can i say "lets go hit corpses" but why cant i have someone swing at me or kill me.
What.. someone wont say "hit me" or wont agree to be killed? Why not? Why is that even out of 'roleplay' . maybe that character enjoys a fight, thats half the reason we're at the boulder. Not because we wana be snerts and circumvent the rules. Frankly if i wanted to circumvent rules id be elsewhere where the rewards are better ::chuckle::
I take my chars to the boulder because I wanna get into a scuffle with an actual opponent of intelligence. You wonder why we're there. Because theres no zones to hunt that are filled with intelligence. Simply put. Other muds i came from, were intense, I hadda have split second timing and keep my eyes on the screen, otherwise that draconian soldier migth track in and bash my mage to the floor before the group could protect me. Yeah.. huntin in GS aint risk free. But its so repetative.. The thrill dies out really fast. EVERYTHIGN is the same. It either casts, uses a guild skill, or has a maneuver attack.
Oh and ive noticed critters calling to their friends, which takes forever.
Why are people ther,e because theres very few in game challenges left other than working skills and levels and obtaining items.

hit the cap in GS, well damn, i can kill most creatures now with almost no risk. What am i gonna do now.. hrm.. maybe with the new thigns coming out like forging etc, therell be things to do but.. Nothing will compare, i NEVER needed to pvp to ENJOY some of the other games i played once i reached high level. Highest level on the game im talkin bout was 30.. took awhile to get to.. Yeah there was pvp clans but that was for the items totally separate issue. But .. there was always something I could do.. there was always some quest for a spell i didnt finish, That .. rare 1% chance id get the spell so few others in game were able to get.

Thats my reason for going to the boulder.
The mobs are too easy.
The goals we have left once we reach higher levels are too ... static.

reg

11:48 AMGood post.

I don't understand Simu's logic in this either. Either make a judgement call or not.

The fact is conflict WASTES a ton of customer service resources. Yes wastes.

So what would the logical third person think of a company that has absolutely really nothing to make simple rules to follow? Not much. So this same person would come to the conclusion these GM's actually enjoy the activity of "hunting player's" or nabbing them.

I remember distinctly hearing more than one GM stating this on the official boards.

What an odd business. Do they want paying customers? Do they want a quality game? Do they know what consistency or integrity mean?

Not to me they don't.

Hiway reg

11:30 PMYou know, i read this thing, and i just had to speak out...

First of all, i GUARANTEE the GM that handled this was Kylan, without a doubt in my mind, i'll bet a million dollars almost.

Recently i had a conflict with a player, and as we were expressing our discontent for each other, and tossing around insults, he said, out loud, quite loudly 'Fine then, you want to go ahead and try to kill me? Go ahead, you think that'll bother me?'

So guess what? He died... Guess what else? 2 seconds later, Kylan sucked me off to the consultation lounge, forced me to read policy, then left me there for about 2 hours, while he went to get okays from his superiors for what he was about to do, obviously.

I got about 30 seconds to attempt and defend myself when he arrived, as he quotes the part of policy talking about 'Players who have nothing better to do but prey upon weaker characters for their own enjoyment' When i talked about him giving me consent?
Kylan's response 'Oh, he was just trying to get your goat, he did not mean to really give you consent', which leads me to believe mind-reading is now a staff specialty.

Then he clears his throat, and says aloud 'Well Urgoyle, it is clear that you can never agree to or conform to the policies here' then he waves to me, then i'm locked out,and told to write lockout, which as we all know, is quite difficult to get a straight answer from.

Also, while people are talking about fairness and such here, i just HAVE to point something out, how i once had my warnings categorized, and about oh... a year or so before i was even created, i've got 6 warnings on my account, for such things as naming a character 'Draginman thiefkiller' or something stupid, and i'm sure something like 'Headbiter kickasser' was in there somewhere, i've deleted the e-mails since then, out of frustration.

But this is just to say... that if you do not have many friends in the realms, treat the GMs as they do you, with polite curtness, do not suck up to them, do not treat them like crap, and obey the 'mutual respect' policy, this is what can happen.

NOTHING can stop them from running back in time and tacking warnings onto your account, if you kill one of their friends or whatnot, and from then on out, every GM you deal with, will see these, and judge you against them.

And i'm sure the Urgoyle bashers <tm> will arrive for this, but while i'm not in the game, let me give them all the finger, you jealous bastards. Just because i do my job with efficiency, and speed, does NOT give you the right to go and complain to your GM friends that i'm doing something wrong, but you know what? Majority rules here, and if one empath is mad she isn't quick enough to keep up, and complains about it... and more people complain about it... and their target is one lone figure who tends to keep people at a distance himself, just because crap like this happens.... well.... Again, this is what happens...

Anyone wanna talk about similiar lockout experiences?... I'd go ahead and mention the one Kennesaw locked me out, when a wizard shot acid at me, and i dragged him outside the north gate, and blew his head apart with fire spirit... As we were both in the consultation lounge, about to be locked out, what did the wizard say? 'Hahahaha! I'm still on trial! hahahaha screw you screw this game! hahahaha' and he left...

What happened to me?... paying customer for a good long time, been in the lands for about 5 years or so... Same thing, i got locked out with him, because as Kennesaw said 'I cannot be judge, jury, and executioner'

And you know the -real- reason why i'm posting here? Because i'm bloody pissed... when Kylan locked me out of Gemstone, he got me locked out of Dragonrealms too, and though it might not be the same place, good LORD is the staff a lot more laid back, and the place is just SO much better run... I play a loner there, no one gives me hell for it, no one comes after me for being what i am, why can it not be the same here?

Urgoyle... with 12 warnings, 6 not even his... and the kicker, they didn't even include 2 warnings <legit, i'll add, and admit to> i've earned as my sorceror character... kind of neat how crime and punishment mesh together here, right? I'm sure i'll never get back in after posting this, but should the staff really read this, and hate me even more? Wouldn't that be wrong, and unprofessional of them? Or is this place run by Simu also?... Oh well, watch em do it anyway... Feel free to walk all over me, talk to me, argue with me, whatever... E-mail works sometimes too, but i'll check this from time to time for replies.

[Edited for strong language. - Buckwheet]

[This message has been edited by Buckwheet (edited 11-18-2001).] reg

11:36 PM>NOTHING can stop them from running back in time and tacking warnings onto your account, if you kill one of their friends or whatnot, and from then on out, every GM you deal with, will see these, and judge you against them.

This is simply untrue. reg

11:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Urgoyle:
Recently i had a conflict with a player, and as we were expressing our discontent for each other, and tossing around insults, he said, out loud, quite loudly 'Fine then, you want to go ahead and try to kill me? Go ahead, you think that'll bother me?'
So guess what? He died...
When i talked about him giving me consent?
Kylan's response 'Oh, he was just trying to get your goat, he did not mean to really give you consent'

I would have smoked them too. Someone asks for it, might as well oblige them.

Sort of like if someone says "I got 100k in silvers on me - please steal them from me". I'd be happy to oblige them too.

That being said...
The amount of warnings you have is quite a few - which leads people to automatically assume you are in the wrong. reg

11:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Urgoyle:
[B]And you know the -real- reason why i'm posting here? Because i'm bloody pissed...

You sound sober enough. reg

11:55 PMEh, well, Khaladon yer one of my fav gm's. But the sad part, is it is true. Explain how Urgoyle got those warnings? I know Urgoyle pretty well, frankly, the man holds his personal honor above anything else. If anything thats his most prized posession. He wouldn't be able to lie about warnings being added and live with himself. So maybe those warnings should be reviewed, because Ive known Urgoyle from another MUD (we migrated from the same mud and didnt even realize it). He does NOT name his characters in non roleplay fashions. Your lucky he used the name Urgoyle... he only really uses one name and I won't disclose what that is.

So.. what you say may be how its supposed to work Khaladon, but frankly, too many things have occurred that show me thats not really how it works.
reg

12:12 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Magister:
I would have smoked them too. Someone asks for it, might as well oblige them.
Sort of like if someone says "I got 100k in silvers on me - please steal them from me". I'd be happy to oblige them too.

That being said...
The amount of warnings you have is quite a few - which leads people to automatically assume you are in the wrong.

Exactly, but look where these warnings are from?... Created out of thin air just to look bad on me? But again, should GMs really be 'assuming' things like that? Isn't it their job to look beyond that? To look at the situation?

Popping in and saying 'Oh, he didn't mean to give you consent, here's your punishment' Is deplorable at best.

I've recieved a lot of silly warnings... said 'ass' once... you wouldn't believe what i see GM friends getting away with... but okay, 'ass' is on every cable network, and screamed on the radio 10 times a morning... But this is a family game, of course, assuming you've read <and laughed at> that 'letter to parents'

<excerpt> Help for your child is as quickly available as REPORT. Don't you wish your child had this kind of protection on the playground, or somewhere else? <cut>

Yeah, right... something bad happens... you respond to it? WRONG!... You're in trouble! How dare you silence someone for whispering 'ur a fag' to you?... You _MUST_ REPORT AND ASSIST!...

Okay, next time it happens... report...
You get that little send telling you to assist about it, since everyone should be handled in turn... so you assist... they take notes, nothing happens... UNLESS you report and assist too much when people harass you, because then you're squandering staff resources, and can be named a "High Maintenance Character"...

If they can draw glyphs and stuff, policy should be one giant ascii drawing of a middle finger sticking into the air, with the caption 'We are god, bow down and pay to worship us, or we'll ruin your day for our fun'

Urgoyle...<once warned for using empathy to make someone run out of the crypt, as he gave them directions to cobras, where they wanted to be, threw a few spells on them so they'd be safe, and just used that as a 'gentle pushing out the door'... afterall, said the GM, they could've been killed by me putting them outside... of course, by all the things that swing at 10 and 20 AS, considering he had his sword/shield out, and i spelled him... but that's it... sneeze, wipe your ass, pick your nose... WARN WARN WARN!!!!!!!>

One day i hope i'm let back in... finish selling my stuff, then go drop 6 million coins in a populated place, and laugh as people go nuts trying to pick up as much as they can, and haul it to the bank... that'll be my final piece of enjoyment, as i watch the greed commense... and then maybe they'll let me back into dragonrealms, or modus, or something else... (yeah right) reg

12:14 AM

quote:
Originally posted by bezerker:
He wouldn't be able to lie about warnings being added and live with himself. So maybe those warnings should be reviewed, because Ive known Urgoyle from another MUD (we migrated from the same mud and didnt even realize it).
So.. what you say may be how its supposed to work Khaladon, but frankly, too many things have occurred that show me thats not really how it works.

There is no way to add warnings into the past of a character. Each time they are issued, they come with a big alert. And every few warnings usually comes with an explanation in the Consultation Lounge and a reading of Policy. Sorry, Berzerker, Khaladon is the one that's right on that score.

--A.
reg

12:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GSKhaladon:
>NOTHING can stop them from running back in time and tacking warnings onto your account, if you kill one of their friends or whatnot, and from then on out, every GM you deal with, will see these, and judge you against them.
This is simply untrue.

Okay, if this is simply untrue, tell me how i can stop that from happening?... I suppose i could build an army, invade the US, take over your headquarters, and rule the world... Maybe something more like 'It is highly unlikely that you could stop us from doing that' would make more sense..

<And though you might've meant it untrue that you guys don't do that, i decided to interpret it in the most wrong way possible... funny how you guys do that all the time, and seem to enjoy it, right?> reg

12:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GMAndraste:
There is no way to add warnings into the past of a character. Each time they are issued, they come with a big alert. And every few warnings usually comes with an explanation in the Consultation Lounge and a reading of Policy. Sorry, Berzerker, Khaladon is the one that's right on that score.
--A.

But if warnings can be removed, when staff and everyone says they cannot be... how can they not be added on, Andraste? reg

12:28 AMwell Andraste I don't wanna initiate a flame war here, so I'll keep my comments, but frankly, who knows. You may be right you may not. Youve been fair to me in the past so who knows. Im just simply stating, that urgoyle's player did NOT do those things. I'd bet everything I had that he did not do those things with the names himself (not debating that it happened, but that he was not the person that did it). reg

01:22 AM>So.. what you say may be how its supposed to work Khaladon, but frankly, too many things have occurred that show me thats not really how it works.

All warnings are time/date stamped when issued. Its absolutly and compltely impossible to go back and add them.

Sorry, its impossible, period.

Khaladon

Did I mention they echo too <chuckle> reg

01:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GSKhaladon:
>So.. what you say may be how its supposed to work Khaladon, but frankly, too many things have occurred that show me thats not really how it works.

All warnings are time/date stamped when issued. Its absolutly and compltely impossible to go back and add them.
Sorry, its impossible, period.

Khaladon
Did I mention they echo too <chuckle>

Ah the ignorant. Someone is above you. Someone can cover anything up. Someone can code. Someone can make anything look like they want to. Anything is possible in Clowntronic's virtual land.

Hiding behind anonymity is the forte'.

I would bet half the tone and speech of most GM's facing their customers would be a whole heck different in real life. I know I have faced some and they all of a sudden get embarrased. Funny isn't it? Hold someone accountable and ask straight forward questions and you see tap dancing galore.

Hiway
reg

03:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Hiway:

Ah the ignorant. Someone is above you. Someone can cover anything up. Someone can code. Someone can make anything look like they want to. Anything is possible in Clowntronic's virtual land.
Hiding behind anonymity is the forte'.
I would bet half the tone and speech of most GM's facing their customers would be a whole heck different in real life. I know I have faced some and they all of a sudden get embarrased. Funny isn't it? Hold someone accountable and ask straight forward questions and you see tap dancing galore.

Hiway

Ya know for some reason, i can't help but agree with this... How many keystrokes would it take to add a warning, then change the date on it?... I'm guessing the return key would need to be used less then 10 times to get that to happen. reg

03:53 AMWhat I feel real disturbing is that GMs take notes of things they think you MAY be involved in and write it down on your records. I got all my list of warnings/notes last year when I was banned for 30 days, and there were some incidences I had no involvement in. They said it was believed I was using such and such a character that killed someone else etc. If that isn't ridiculous..heh..

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa reg

04:07 AMJesus Christ, I haven't heard this much whining since Bill Laimbeer was still in the NBA. No wonder Gemstone has gone to hell and all the people are leaving just to be replaced with more whiny little punks. Some people need to grow up and learn how to take responsibility for their actions. I hate the fact that I have been drawn down to this level of communication but one can only hear so much of this crap. If you hate everything so much then just stop playing the damn game. reg

05:18 AMPeople have no problems taking responsibility of their actions. They have problems for taking responsibility for actions that weren't theirs.

And regarding the whole, thing with the things being placed on record... A friend of mine did something with a guy from GS. Turned out he was a bit loony (real surprise?). So.. that same guy became involved with someone she knew, so she assisted and requested that the GM's be aware of this because she did not want this guy to beable to do to others what he did to her. Now, i can understand if this was a crime (such as a rape etc). but the guy was a bit.. posessive.. and stalkish.. SUPPOSEDLY the GM made note of this somehow (thats what she was told.. maybe maybe not). Now to me, thats a bit unfair if something WAS placed on his record. If he was harassing her out of game, she should have dealt with it through legal ways, not by asking for his account to have a note put on it.. but if something was placed on his record (who knows again if this is true). Now he has this on his file, and will always have it there, whether he just maybe, had a bad relationship or something. Hes branded that way. To me, that seems excessive.
reg

05:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Urgoyle:
But if warnings can be removed, when staff and everyone says they cannot be... how can they not be added on, Andraste?

I doubt staff people have said they can not remove them to you, Urgoyle, I'm betting that what they have said is more closely:

• I will not remove the warning.

• I can not remove the warning, however you can appeal it with Feedback@simutronics. com. (This doesn't mean they can't actually, it means they won't.)

• I can not remove a warning given to you by another GM, you'll need to appeal the decision with Feedback.

• And the ever popular -- I can not remove those old warnings you got 5 years ago, however, if you'd like that to be considered or wish to propose a plan to remove them, please feel free to write to Feedback@simutronics.com or use the COMMENT verb to make that suggestion.

--A. reg

07:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GMAndraste:
• And the ever popular -- I can not remove those old warnings you got 5 years ago, however, if you'd like that to be considered or wish to propose a plan to remove them, please feel free to write to Feedback@simutronics.com or use the COMMENT verb to make that suggestion.

This is one thing that I would really like to see - some way of removing the now permanent blights off good player's records.

Perhaps, 1 warning gets dropped every 3 years that a person has been in game?

i.e. A person that has been in game for 6 years, and has 2 warnings, and is now staring down the barrel of the Official Rules of "3rd warning and you can be perma-banned" would be comfortable to know that they wouldn't eat it the next time they got in trouble.
reg

08:47 AMAmen Drevn!

Honestly I think that some GM's are really out there to help your time and make your experience better. Then there are one or two who really get under your skin.

I have been pulled into the Consultation lounge and the GM that pulled me there was one of the GM's that everyone says is a harnose. We have a very polite conversation, and he explained what I did wrong and instead of locking me out(it was mechanics abuse) he gave me a warnng and sent me back into the game.

I think it depends alot on how your conduct yourself, how many times people complain about you, and how much you complain or yell at the GM's especially when you are in the lounge.

I don't think anyone needs to suck up to them, but I do think that you should have an open mind when you get pulled. Sometimes they pull you for a pure BS reason, and sometimes they pull you for a legit reason. Either way I think people need to relax a little about this game.

Buckwheet reg

11:43 AM

First off, its KRylan..not Kylan...

Unless of course I missed a new hire, I hardly play anymore.

I DO believe that some GMs have a case of the 'new GM in charge power trip, let me take out my frustrations of the day on this unsuspecting PAYING customer'...

I also believe there are decent GMs that view their job as working for the customers...which is what they do.

I also believe that a lot of GMs have personal vendettas and AGENDAS...

My guess is that Krylan has some issues, maybe he needs a vacation.

reg

02:17 PMAll warnings are time/date stamped when issued. Its absolutly and compltely impossible to go back and add them.

Sorry, its impossible, period.

Khaladon

--------------------------------

I suppose making items for cash is impossible. Getting info and calling the persons parents. Locking someone out becasue of OOC reasons are all impossible to?

Oh wait. That stuff happened and is still happening the lands. Aldrek. Sayzor and other GMs just disappear from the lands after these such actions happen.

I kinda like the GM that is duping items right now. kinda neat trick. Know anything about that Khaladon? How about you Andraste? Oh wait! GMs are perfect and don't break the rules.

So how in the hell can you say that this can't happen? Oh wait. Daecir don't lie either to. Right? Ask Summerlyn about how he lied to her. Saying Melissa reveiwed her lockout. Then Melissa said she didn't know what she was talking about and thought she wasn't locked out. 101 days she was locked and fined every silver on every one of her characters. For a mistake a GM made.

Oh, I am just making stuff up. I must be smoking crack.

You expect us to beleive GMs. I would rather trust a L.A. cop with my life.

edge reg

05:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Drevn:
Jesus Christ, I haven't heard this much whining since Bill Laimbeer was still in the NBA. No wonder Gemstone has gone to hell and all the people are leaving just to be replaced with more whiny little punks. Some people need to grow up and learn how to take responsibility for their actions. I hate the fact that I have been drawn down to this level of communication but one can only hear so much of this crap. If you hate everything so much then just stop playing the damn game.

See, the thing is, i've been here for over 5 years, i haven't purchased my character, i haven't sold my character <but man is it tempting if they ever let me back in>, i have developed my persona as i would. I have roleplayed myself in a situation like that, and i have truly enjoyed most of my time here.

Perhaps you should read quotes before saying 'If you hate everything so damn much', because that isn't true. I just want to be treated fairly, that is all i ask, that is all i want. Just because i'm not a burbling ball of hapiness who is friend to everyone <but man, those people i locate, fog to, heal, then raise, THEN spell up when they die at 4AM, and let loose with like 3 symbols of need before i respond, certainly seem to appreciate me>

But therein lies the problem... one's supporters are <usually> quiet, and one's haters are always loud and obnoxious... reg

07:25 PMFirst... let it be known that I am Klaive.

Secondly... let it be known that I am angered and disgusted with what I've seen here.

Andraste claims that these warnings could not be tacked on to someone's past. Andraste does not lie.

Thus, we are left with two options. Either the warnings were never issued, or Andraste is unaware of this particular thing.

Based on my own experience with "Corrupt GMs", I choose to believe Urgoyle. I would never put such deception beyond certain GMs. Andraste, you are *THE* GM. You may not outrank everyone else, but they're all scared of you. Why don't you personally look into this matter?

I have applied to be a GM recently myself. And I feel that when I am accepted, it will be part of my duty to ensure that none of my fellow GMs become "corrupt". A responsibility not written in the job description. If what Urgoyle says is true (and I believe it is due to the unwavering honesty he's shown in the time that I've known him), he was punished for killing someone when he had clear consent.

Do you know what I'd do if that happened to me? I would contact a lawyer and file a discrimination suit against Simutronics.

Sure, Simutronics policy states that they can basically lock you out if they feel that you're a detriment to the gaming environment. Which translates into, "because we feel like it." But I have those that will testify that I am an asset to the gaming environment, not a detriment. And discriminating based on philosophy, race, relgion or lifestyle is a nation-wide civil crime (even online).

I believe that Urgoyle was discriminated against in this matter. I believe that he was specificly targeted because of his lifestyle choices. And I believe that it is very wrong.

I have known him for quite a while now. And I can vouch for his character. He only adds to Elanthia. And removing him from our fair fantasy world would be a grave loss.

- The Klaive reg

07:25 PM'Tis a well known fact that GMs have a law of themselves which state simply that GMs are not allowed to tell anyone their secrets. Frankly, let's put it this way. As far as changing a time/date stamp, the code in the game, the logs, etc. etc. etc., I could do them all within 5 minutes and have plenty of time for lunch before I continue making the lives of the GS players miserable. That would be GM Sortik. Actually, if it was my choice I'd be the "nice" GM (don't believe me, eh? Well use logic, Im already a cruel and cold-hearted soulslayer, why not try something new), but they don't accept you as a new GameMaster if you intend to be kind.

GMs have screwed me over many a time for stupidity. A guy walks in on me about to maelstrom a swarm of vereri. He says greetings, and I ask him to open his group so I can grab him before it strikes. He says alright then doesn't, and pretends to be in "weather". It misses a few times, then it hits him for 5 damage to his left arm, then he swings 450 at me. Well, I'm Sortik, so it only knicks me, but then I blast him out of his muddy boots and VWOOM I'm up with a GM I won't name within half a second. I get the policy deal and 4 and a half hours (yes 4 and a half hours) in the consultation lounge. Then the GM comes back and gives me TWO, yes TWO, warnings for disruptive behavior before throwing me in the cell and apparently making sure lockout will refuse to answer me. (I would wager money that three quarters of the e-mails sent to lockout are dumped in the e-trash.) That's 90 days, and before he locks me out he says he will try everything in his power to get me locked out permanently. Guess they gave me that thing where "all mortals will receive one great boon" or something.

Anyway, basically, GMs are more evil than even Sortik, and that sums up every dealing anyone will ever have with one.

-Prince Sortik reg

08:07 PMKlaive....as much as you have improved your behavior from your werewolf days, the idea of you as a GM strikes fear in my soul. Keep learning and growing and maybe someday you will actually be ready for such a position. But to do so requires you to look at others needs and not just your own and from your posts you seem to place your own first and foremost the majority of the time.

I must tell you....It actually is possible to play for many years without a single warning. I do disagree with many people I meet in the lands and have not been afraid to tell them so yet somehow I do not find myself forced to blow someone out of their socks simply because I am offended and I can. At the same time I have been attacked all of one time that I can recall.

For those that accumulate many warnings and then sound off as the wronged innocent who has no idea how this could happen to them is someone simply deciding not to see the reasons before them.

One or even two warnings given in error I can allow as possible. More than that is just not a probability worth even debating. And if you put yourself in the position of being at a GM's mercy, that is...through past actions placing your account on the precipice of a lockout... you have no one to blame but yourself if the one warning in error is the one that is the "final straw". reg

08:28 PMSorry. But you make a GM mad. They will go out of their way to ban you. Facts of life.

Most of the mean spirited GMs don't even go to Simucon. Kinda find that funny. Wonder why?

edge reg

09:30 PM>I suppose making items for cash is impossible. Getting info and calling the persons parents. Locking someone out becasue of OOC reasons are all impossible to?

All lockouts are reviewed by an SGM and the Office. And no, there is no conspiracy.

>Oh wait. That stuff happened and is still happening the lands. Aldrek. Sayzor and other GMs just disappear from the lands after these such actions happen.

In the history of life, things can be abused. Does it mean it continues, no. Do you hold old issues against us forever, yes. How long has Sayzor been gone now, 4 years?????

>I kinda like the GM that is duping items right now. kinda neat trick. Know anything about that Khaladon? How about you Andraste? Oh wait! GMs are perfect and don't break the rules.

Want to mail me proof. GS3-Khaladon@Play.net and I will call Llearyn and discuss it.

Again, I stand by my earlier statement, going back to add warnings are impossible. Its just not an available option to change the time/date stamp.

Khaladon reg

11:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GSKhaladon:
>Oh wait. That stuff happened and is still happening the lands. Aldrek. Sayzor and other GMs just disappear from the lands after these such actions happen.
In the history of life, things can be abused. Does it mean it continues, no. Do you hold old issues against us forever, yes. How long has Sayzor been gone now, 4 years?????

Without taking a side one way or the other, my character still has his solitary warning from 5 1/2 years ago for profanity. It still counts against me. reg

05:16 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Gnomad:
Without taking a side one way or the other, my character still has his solitary warning from 5 1/2 years ago for profanity. It still counts against me.

And what about the 6 warnings tacked onto my account? from before i was even created?... I forget when they said those were issued, 95? 96?...

Very good point, very good point indeed... Things count against players forever, it should be the same for the staff. reg

10:03 AMThe saddest thing is you never really know what the GM's are looking at. You will never, given current policy, be able to face all the "evidence".

It is a one sided street folks. All those little notes from snerts and people (yes the real person behind the character) who dislike/hate you do add up, even if untrue. Jealousy is a powerful motivation and I sure can tell you that I am a "victim of sorts" regarding that. A GM will still see those numerous notations that are steeped in lies and they will influence them when dealing with you.

You do not get treated neutrally each time you are dealt with.

To quote SGM Krash: "Why don't you leave, you won't be missed". This while Drizzsdt and I were in the consultation lounge actually agreeing and relieved that someone made a decision for once.

We didn't insult Krash, we didn't fight, we listened and calmly stated our case.

These are not accusations. These are facts.

Hiway - I would stake my reputation on it and even swear an oath if that is what it would take. reg

10:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GMAndraste:
I'm not sure what you mean by this exactly. I can not agree that everything or everyone here is roleplaying, simply because I see way too many examples on a daily basis that they are not, and they have to be reminded that they are in a roleplaying environment -- or they have absolutely zero roleplaying skills, perhaps because they are new to the game, and need to learn by example.

I define roleplaying by acting on certain pre-conceived actions. For example, if I were to be hugged by someone, and kill them, it would be role-playing if I had pre-determined any hugging or fluffy behavior would lead me to kill them. Most importantly, you do not bend those rules under any circumstance.

I get hugged all the time and don't kill people, a male character I didn't know hugged me the other day and I killed him. He had no complaints about it, he had done it many times and I had warned him each and every time. He understood he was going to die, especially since I gave him a warning shot across his bow a day or two previously.

My rule is males I know and any female I don't dislike may hug me. I also have other rules, I do not kneel and beg to anyone, I call most people Lord or Lady regardless of age until I am more familiar with them (including level 1 newbies, that always throws them for a loop), and I am a short dark elf, not a dwarf. I adhere to these rules at all times, and don't change my mind when it suits me.

I did make a mistake the other day, being a little tired. I was at a merchant who was dwarven, and started speaking to them in dwarven. Usually when I hear something in dwarven I ignore it.

I will also use words like "cool," "dude," and "Fantastic." If we were to be 100% IC with the midevil theme there would be no "the," "you," or various other words. To be IC in such a way is extreme and unnecessary to add to the environment.

Finally, if I haven't determined a rule for RP I do what I, Jonathan Ross, would do until I come up with a rule. An example, how to deal with people who are rude to me. In real life I ignore it and let it go. With my current rules that doesn't really fit, but I can't find a way to not break policy and deal with them. By all means I should de-limb them and walk off, but I cannot do that. In fact, I should have killed that guy who hugged me the moment I had warned him and he did it again but was afraid of the OOC consequences.

Frankly, it's not a Roleplaying game, it's a you can RP a fluffy pink bunny who giggles a lot game. It's easy to say you should stay in character all the time, but policy forbids that for my character. I never understood why PvP was so serious in the first place, it's not like you go "poof" and lose 5 years of work the moment you die. Frankly I think Bleeds (who was a Simutronics employee or GM) and Thailor were able to get away with RPing, where as my hands are tied by policy.

2-3 years ago I had a character named Matubaa, who was a level 73 or 74 Sorcerer. Granted, I wasn't the best RPer in the world back then, but I got my share of RPAs. What ticked him off more than anything else was that he had no recourse available to him when low level snerts would pick on him. If I killed a level 1 player for punching and kicking me repeatedly I could get in trouble. If I report him then I'm losing out on an RP situation. What should I do? Try and RP level 73 or 74 Sorcerer who likes pain and keeps begging the player to hurt him more? I'd probably have gotten in trouble for that too!

reg

11:03 AM

Andraste doesn't lie?

Everybody lies.

p.s. The day Klaive becomes a GM, is the day I'll know Gemstone is at the end of its rope. reg

02:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Zachary:
I will also use words like "cool," "dude," and "Fantastic."

I loathe to see "cool" (when not describing temperature) and "dude" in game. But that's not my point.

quote:
If we were to be 100% IC with the midevil theme there would be no "the," "you," or various other words. To be IC in such a way is extreme and unnecessary to add to the environment.

Please, before you make such a sweeping statement, do some background work.

The word "the" has existed for a long time, much before the medieval ages. If you're referring to things such as "Ye olde blacksmith", then yes, "ye" does serve as a definite article.

This is because the letter 'þ' (thorn) used to represent 'th' when used in writings. As in "þe" instead of "the". Eventually, the 'þ' was dropped, and was often replaced with 'y' by scribes and other such printers. Pronunciation soon followed.

As for "you", the word "you" definitely did exist in the medieval ages. You, ye, thou and thee were all different words, and had different uses.

Thou: Second person singular, nominative.
Thee: Second person singular, accusative/dative.
Thy,Thyn/Thine: Second person singular, genitive(possessive).

Ye: Second person plural, nominative.
You/Yow: Second person plural, accusative/dative.
Your/Youre[no typo]: Second person plural, genitive(possessive).

However, it's all a moot point. Middle English is a different language. In Gemstone, it's accepted that the characters speak in Modern English, but remain in character - that is, using our language, but avoiding anachronous words such as "dude", "cool", and the like.

quote:
Originally posted by Zachary:
If I killed a level 1 player for punching and kicking me repeatedly I could get in trouble.

On a different note, this is always a fun one to resolve if you're in Voln and the confrontational type.

Step 1:
glance <person>
'<person>, stop.

Wait...

Step 2:
stance d
punch <person>
'<person>, cease this foolishness now.

Wait...

Step 3:
stance o
punch <person>
shake head

Perfectly in character to me. The chap can't say he didn't have a warning.

Of course, if you're not in Voln, or if the person is just being generally annoying, and if your character is confrontational, give him his two warnings, and then let loose.

Gnomad the eclectic reg

02:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gnomad:
I loathe to see "cool" (when not describing temperature) and "dude" in game. But that's not my point.

I said like, not that I do. Infact I've probarbly never said either, but the modern vernacular is perfectly acceptable to me. So long as it isn't modern slang I find it accepetable.

------------------
--Jonathan Ross, Player of Zachary Haedden reg

08:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gnomad:
On a different note, this is always a fun one to resolve if you're in Voln and the confrontational type.
Step 1:
glance <person>
'<person>, stop.
Wait...
Step 2:
stance d
punch <person>
'<person>, cease this foolishness now.
Wait...
Step 3:
stance o
punch <person>
shake head
Perfectly in character to me. The chap can't say he didn't have a warning.
Of course, if you're not in Voln, or if the person is just being generally annoying, and if your character is confrontational, give him his two warnings, and then let loose.
Gnomad the eclectic

In a similiar situation, i responded instead with the symbol of sleep... Said snert then logged in his or his friend's 120+ trained cleric to come blind me, and say 'you ever screw with me again, you're dead, you got that?'... I did as staff told me to, and reported/assisted about it... the end result, nothing happened, and the staff made a notation in my books that I casted an offensive spell or ability at a low train character.... nice, huh?

As edge says... that is how it works... if a GM doesn't like you, yer f*<etc>ed, plain and simple, and no business should be able to be run like this. Does the CEO ever pop in from time to time and see how his minions are running the place? Or once the giant paychecks start rolling in, is it easy to get distracted and not care?

He founded simutronics because he had a love of games, is there no way to contact this guy and to ask him to look and see what is happening to his lovely game(s)? reg

08:18 PMwww.davidwhatley.com

R
reg

12:28 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Desharei:
www.davidwhatley.com
R

That was pure enlightenment for me Roberta.

Thank you.

Now I fully understand why Simutronics is the way it is. Did you read the part on the Taliban?

I still can't stop laughing. Hey maybe the wannabe warrior could go over there and see how those "morons" treat him.

I dunno. I don't think airsoft would really impress a Taliban soldier that much.

Hiway
reg

03:13 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Desharei:
www.davidwhatley.com
R

LoL!!!!! ::refrains from saying things that would get him kicked out of all Simutronics Products forever.::

- The Klaive!

[Second dang time I've clicked on the wrong button...was trying to quote you Klaive...I will in next post...please accept the apology]

[This message has been edited by Omnirus (edited 11-21-2001).] reg

03:35 AMWelcome to the Gemstone Players Corner, Klaive.

Where you _can_ say things...and don't have to worry about being banned :P reg

05:53 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Desharei:
www.davidwhatley.com
R

I'll give it a few days before it's taken down... In one corner here, we have random rantings about the taliban... In another corner, we've got borderline perversion as he drools over how many scenarios he can photograph ladies in...

Must be damn fun being rich, because i know deep down, he could give a flying _F_ about how the rest of us here feel, i pondered e-mailing him, him being on the head of the simutronic's chain, but i've just got this feeling, with all the money he has, anything with 'Simutronics' 'Gemstone' 'Dragonrealms' or any other key words would either be deleted or forwarded to an underling to take care of it...

Oh well... it's not that some people don't have the whole six-pack, they just lack the plastic thingy that holds it all together. reg

07:31 AMKlaive you are so not cut out to be a GM. I don't doubt your creativity/programming ability etc.

You are soooo biased towards certain players its ridiculous. You sent emails to some of my character's gemstone family telling them that I am an a$$hole etc, that I only look out for myself yada yada yada.

Based on the posts on the official boards I have read of yours, you seem to like ummm hate real life and have a lot of anger built up, and you seem to be someone I would categorize as ..."a total loser."

Please let us know how your application turns out, because your acceptance is laughable.

Mike

Zanagan/Zarosa reg

07:54 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Urgoyle:

Oh well... it's not that some people don't have the whole six-pack, they just lack the plastic thingy that holds it all together.

Quite possibly the funniest thing I've heard in a while... and one of the most applicable, to boot.

------------------
-Emtel reg

04:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Zanagodly:
Klaive you are so not cut out to be a GM. I don't doubt your creativity/programming ability etc.
You are soooo biased towards certain players its ridiculous. You sent emails to some of my character's gemstone family telling them that I am an a$$hole etc, that I only look out for myself yada yada yada.
Based on the posts on the official boards I have read of yours, you seem to like ummm hate real life and have a lot of anger built up, and you seem to be someone I would categorize as ..."a total loser."
Please let us know how your application turns out, because your acceptance is laughable.
Mike
Zanagan/Zarosa

Do not presume that you know me, Mike. You do not know me. You have no idea what my motivation is, you are absolutely clueless in regard to how I would conduct myself as a GM.

My application is honest, complete and above all, enticing. My customer service abilities (if I desire to use them) are astounding. I may hate you, but you'll never know it if I don't want you to. I have a strong desire to spend hours upon hours altering, building new areas, brainstorming and sharing ideas, enhancing and improving the lands in any way I can and handling referrals.

On the boards, I'm absolutely honest. I say what I *feel* like saying and I don't censor myself. As a GM however, I would be a representitive of Simutronics. My job would be done efficently, and I would keep my negative opinions to myself.

I would never abuse my power to unjustly harm another or unjustly reward another. If I rewarded or punished you, there'd be a reason. And a reason found in policy.

Most importantly, you will never know if I make GM or not. I will not announce it. I know that I have forged a bad reputation with Klaive and I refuse to allow that reputation to spill over into my professional life.

I will have you know however, that I am quite certain that I *will* be a GM and within the next year. This is not a flight of fancy, I have reason to say this.

But none of you will know exactly when it happens or who I am.

In closing, I'd like to repeat that none of you are even close to knowing the real me. And you never will. You know only what I've shown you, and that is merely one small fascet of my personality. Do not presume to judge me as though you have the knowledge or the authority to do so. I am infinitely more complex than you assume.

- The Klaive reg

04:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Klaive:
I will have you know however, that I am quite certain that I *will* be a GM and within the next year. This is not a flight of fancy, I have reason to say this.
But none of you will know exactly when it happens or who I am.
- The Klaive

Mind sharing your trick? I can't even get on as a GameHost and I can program in over 6 commercial languages. Not to mention I was offered a teaching job when I was 17 at a local community college. Did I mention I'm the best programmer at Met's Insurance Broker of the year? They guy that was assigned to teach me the ropes will now be taking lessons from me. And all that's in my application.

Granted, GameHosts are more of a CS position than coding but from my understanding it's extremly rare for someone to go straight from player to GM. The reason I want to be a GH is so I can show I'm profetional enough to handle being a dev GM.

Do I need to show my half finished BCI (Byte Code Interpreter) before someone will belieave I'd make a good GM? The sucker makes Java look like a sloth <snicker>. Oh yea, it also is the first BCL (Byte Code Language) that I know of that utilizes pointers, and it still automaticly cleans them up. That was the real <insert curse here> of it all.

--Jonathan Ross, Player of Zachary Haedden
PS: I only have one warning, for scrolling about a year ago. I guess I said something and my elbow landed on the enter key. So it's not the state of my account. reg

04:37 PM
<<Most importantly, you will never know if I make GM or not. I will not announce it. >>>

<<I will have you know however, that I am quite certain that I *will* be a GM and within the next year. This is not a flight of fancy, I have reason to say this.>>

LOL!

Well, if nothing else Klaive, you are entertaining...

reg

05:46 PM -insert Klaive's post-

Whoa.

Heh, that's all I can seem to muster right now.

- Pudgee reg

12:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Klaive:
Do not presume that you know me, Mike. You do not know me. You have no idea what my motivation is, you are absolutely clueless in regard to how I would conduct myself as a GM.
My application is honest, complete and above all, enticing. My customer service abilities (if I desire to use them) are astounding. I may hate you, but you'll never know it if I don't want you to
I would never abuse my power to unjustly harm another or unjustly reward another. If I rewarded or punished you, there'd be a reason. And a reason found in policy.
Most importantly, you will never know if I make GM or not. I will not announce it. I know that I have forged a bad reputation with Klaive and I refuse to allow that reputation to spill over into my professional life.
In closing, I'd like to repeat that none of you are even close to knowing the real me. And you never will. You know only what I've shown you, and that is merely one small fascet of my personality. Do not presume to judge me as though you have the knowledge or the authority to do so. I am infinitely more complex than you assume.
- The Klaive

Klaive, I think you have explained right there just _why_ at this time you should not be a GM.

I am pretty sure Simu is not looking for someone already with a list of people he hates to be given authority over others.

You are a young man who has shown himself to be prone to let his emotions take control to work in such a position where so many (as is well displayed on these boards) are likely to verbally assault you day in and day out.

I also have seen cc's of some of your e-mails berating various players and GMs.

One other note...we all like to think we are so complex, you may be one of the rare exceptions, but mostly people are pretty much similar. It doesn't mean we are not all special or important. It just means that you are probably not _quite_ as mysterious or unfathomable to the rest of us as you might like to think.

Have you improved? Definitely and I applaud that. Just give things time, don't try to rush so much. reg

01:27 AMIn the interests of turning this topic back to what it was, talking about unfair bannings and the like, and away from 'I hate klaive!' postings, i would like to share with you, this e-mail i recieved, about my account and such, plus, they say talking makes you feel better, so i'll space out my opinions through the letter...

********************************************
Subj: Re: Release Request (was Re: Lockout Appeal (was Re: Lockout))
Date: 11/21/2001 3:08:51 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: lockout@simutronics.com (Feedback Department)
To: *never you mind, heh*

At 08:48 PM 11/20/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Okay, so you noticed many of my rhetorical questions, and some of those were
>written in anger at my treatment... But one questions remains unanswered...
>
>What gives Krylan, or Kylan, or whatever his name is, the right to
>_APPARANTLY_ read minds, and say 'Oh, that person didn't mean to give you
>consent' warn me for disruptive behavior, and lock me out?
>
>A million times over, all i want to do is be left to my own devices here,
>again, my profession is one of helping others, and that is what i am there
>for. Where do i go to lodge a formal complaint about the way i've been
>treated?
>
>You said in an earlier letter, that my case was reviewed, and the lockout
>stands. How well was it reviewed? A person gives me direct consent, i take
>it, and this happens, i have been told by many other GMs in the past, that to
>incite conflict, lose, and report and cry about it, <even though i'm almost
>positive Krylan took it upon himself to snoop me, and the player in question
>didn't report, but he might have> would instead get THEM in trouble.
>
>And in one corner, i have you talking about the vast majority of your
>customers never needing to assist or report except for game-wide emergencies,
>are these the customers who buy 5 accounts, and just multiplay themselves
>content? Isn't this supposed to be a social, roleplaying game? Again, i've
>been told over and over to report and assist EVERYTHING, and then i'm told
>that nobody else has the need to do so, so what do you suggest i do?
>
>If i do nothing, they get away with whatever they are doing, if i respond by
>silencing them <if they are whispering deplorable things to me>, they go log
>in cleric level 143 and come blind me or something <which is, to my
>understanding, an abuse of game mechanics, and that is when i report, but
>nothing is done there either>, or, i can report about it, in which case, i'm
>apparantly 'squandering staff resources', and nothing is done anyway.
>
>But therein lies the problem, if i keep it in game, someone whispers
>something to me i find highly offensive, and i silence them <isn't the spell
>made for such things?>, they report 'URGOYLE IS CASTING AT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
>and immediately i'm in the wrong, because of past instances.
>
>So again, Daecir, what do you suggest i do? <and please, a vague answer like
>'stay out of trouble' which is all i TRY to do, won't help> You say i go out
>of my way to find conflict, when in fact, conflict and people go out of their
>way to find me. I am simply a mirror, if someone is kind, truly KIND to me, i
>CANNOT be mean to them... If someone is curt and neutral to me, i am to them,
>if someone is MEAN to me, i am mean back... Why should i be punished for
>treating them as they treat me? Does not the phrase 'do unto others as they
>would do unto you' come into effect here?
>
>If someone does something to me, why am i not allowed to do it back? What
>about the recent example with Kharhazz? he just decided to start a conflict
>with me, laugh when i told him to stop, and kill me about it. Honestly, if i
>picked out a player, who i thought defenseless <wizard vs empath>, and just
>gunned them down because i can, how many nanoseconds would it take for you
>guys to permanently ban me?
>
>I offer you questions, i offer you some proof, and i'd also like to know when
>i'll be able to log back in, since billing won't re-open my account until you
>let them, and i can't even go READ BOARDS for god's sake...
>
>You mentioned the dragonrealms staff wouldn't be anymore tolerable of my
>actions... but that's just it, i am the same there as i am here, the thing
>is, when people start trouble with me there, and i notify the staff, it's
>taken care of, not watched and watched and watched until something happens,
>and then all evidence is turned around to contemplate how i may be made out
>to be the bad guy.
>
>Is it, in anyway, shape, or form, possible that i just MIGHT be in the right
>here? That i'm acting like any other player would, but because i play a cold
>character, and i don't have lots of in-game friends, i don't have any GM
>friends, and i keep people at a distance, that i suffer for it? Would i
>really have to suck up to everyone, staff included, to be treated fairly? I
>find those kinds of actions deplorable, i treat people honorably until such a
>time as they decide to start conflicts with me, and then I respond with all
>due force, as any other player would, yet i am the one constantly singled out.
>
>If you're going to quickread this message, and only want to answer a few
>questions, let me outline them.
>
>1:How can Krylan say 'oh, he didn't mean to give you consent' and just have
>his way with me like that?
>2:Howcome I've got you in one message telling me to report and assist about
>conflicts, to make sure i don't get in trouble, and in the next sentence,
>talking about how other customers never have to use that?
>3:Howcome other players are allowed to handle conflicts themselves? I saw
>Drizzsdt _KILL_ a player, because the player was mad, and ranting about,
>being stolen from by said king of all warriors. Does he have any friends on
>the staff? If _I_ decided to kill somebody because they were yelling about me
>stealing from them, would i not be immediately locked out?
>
>Answer any more questions at your leisure, of course.

>1:How can Krylan say 'oh, he didn't mean to give you consent' and just have
>his way with me like that?

Any time you are depending solely upon what someone said as your
justification for "consent" you are taking a risk, it is simply physically
impossible to store every single line of text sent to and from each of our
players. If a complaint is made, often the situation will require a
judgement call based on the details we do log to our system logs as well as
the histories of the individuals involved.

*So remember kids, if you fight someone, even after they give you consent, and the staff doesn't like you enough, or likes them enough, that they can report you and cry wolf, they can get away with it, no matter who says they can't, and remember 'histories of the individuals involved' can also be altered, if you piss someone off sufficiently*

A complaint was made, the situation was investigated by a GameMaster, and
you were consulted. Based on your history of problems and the lack of any
sign of consent in the system logs a judgement call was made, your account
was warned and a lockout requested.

*::makes wiping, cleaning motions of the system log::.. 'Oh, sorry, was this important?'... Funny too, since i had reported about someone 10 minutes prior to my conflict with this person, who was harassing me, and Krylan _WAS_ snooping on me, since the moment i struck at my opponent, <who wanted me to be jailed and fined obviously, since he chose to have the conflict in town> Using disease <bet he didn't see that coming> i got to see this..
[SEND]Krylan: Are you sure you wanted to do that?
the exact moment after it began, so unless my opponent had a big report pre-typed, and hit the answer key the moment i struck, there's no way this could have happened... Unless simutronics has upgraded the staff, to the point where reports are handled within .3 nanoseconds*

>2:Howcome I've got you in one message telling me to report and assist about
>conflicts, to make sure i don't get in trouble, and in the next sentence,
>talking about how other customers never have to use that?

Considering your history of problems, you would be better served to report
and assist if there is any chance your actions would violate policy. The
vast majority of our customers simply do not have the problems that seem to
constantly plague you, this would suggest to me that perhaps you need to
modify your behavior and/or attitude towards others.

*no ammount of modification will unbias the staff against you, remember that... oh, and if too many people decide to have conflicts with you, and you report/assist too much, you're a high maintenance customer... and if you handle things yourself, you get set up anyway, nice situation, isn't it?*

>3:Howcome other players are allowed to handle conflicts themselves? I saw
>Drizzsdt _KILL_ a player, because the player was mad, and ranting about,
>being stolen from by said king of all warriors. Does he have any friends on
>the staff? If _I_ decided to kill somebody because they were yelling about me
>stealing from them, would i not be immediately locked out?

If all of the parties are consenting and choose to handle the situation IC,
then the GameMasters are not going to get involved. Frankly we all have
better things to do than watch you cast spells at each other. If the
victim reported your attack, then it is possible you would receive a
warning for an unconsented attack which may result in your account being
locked out dependant on your account's history of violations.

*Yet this time, they did get involved, wonder why, and i was warned/locked out for disruptive behavior, not unconsented combat, love that line of policy that states whatever is disruptive, and what happens to people who are disruptive, is solely at the discression of simutronics... write that down too, if you want to get someone warned, battle with them, then report it, works like an effin' charm*

>Where do i go to lodge a formal complaint about the way i've been
>treated?

Any complaint about the treatment you received should be directed to
gs3feedback@simutronics.com, it will be investigated and passed to the
Product Manager for review. Do not expect to hear any details from the
investigation, just like we will not discuss your account with any other
person we will not discuss what happens to a staff member's account.

*How many of us have had feedback answers never responded to?*

>How well was it reviewed?

Rhetorical. Your opinion is that it was not well reviewed. I stand by the review that was made.

*I still wonder how much of a review I got, logically, if one reviewed the case, one would see how horribly abusive Krylan was in his handling of the situation*

>And in one corner, i have you talking about the vast majority of your
>customers never needing to assist or report except for game-wide emergencies,
>are these the customers who buy 5 accounts, and just multiplay themselves
>content? Isn't this supposed to be a social, roleplaying game?

Rhetorical

*Read as 'Good luck getting an answer to a difficult question'*

>Again, i've been told over and over to report and assist EVERYTHING, and
>then i'm told
>that nobody else has the need to do so, so what do you suggest i do?

If you have any question as to whether your behavior may result in a
warning, then it would be best you avoid that behavior. If you feel you
must behave in some manner that could possibly result in a policy
violation, then placing an assist to make certain there will no be a
problem is perhaps best. If someone is harassing you and you feel
responding may place you on the wrong side of policy, then REPORT the
situation and follow it up with an ASSIST.

*And since anything can be called disruptive, better assist before you hit that enter key... better assist before you assist, because assisting about assisting might be disruptive*

My personal suggestion is that you review your style of play and modify it
so that you reduce or eliminate any behaviors that are causing you to
experience problems with policy. If you always seem to be on the wrong
side of policy whenever Character vs Character conflicts take place, then
quit killing other characters. If your mouth is constantly provoking
fights, then take a few moments before hitting that enter key to edit what
you were going to say.

*Basicly, never talk back to anybody, no matter what they say to you, never fight back against anyone, no matter what they do to you... I still stand by my style of play, as a mirror... i reflect kindness, hatred, or neutrality back towards those who show them towards me, sometimes i have a dark day, and it's tough to be kind in return, so i just come off as a brooding depressant... is roleplaying bad in the lands?*

>Why should i be punished for
>treating them as they treat me? Does not the phrase 'do unto others as they
>would do unto you' come into effect here?

Do you first attempt to leave the area before casting silence once and
moving on again? Or do you sit there and repeatedly cast at them simply
because you are a higher level and can? If they pursue you then perhaps
placing an assist to report the harassment would then be in order. Why not
simply squelch someone if you do not want to hear them? Why not ignore
someone with whom you do not wish to communicate? It is no fun for them if
you just ignore their childish behavior.

*So i am responsible for everyone else's behavior, as for 'repeated casting' i give someone many warnings to leave me alone before i silence them, if i don't feel like fighting, unless they whisper a curse or something HIGHLY offensive to me... If they sit around and wait for the silence to wear off, so they can start right in on me again, i'll silence them again, i should be well within my rights to do so, squelching is as OOC as you can get, and as for ignoring people, BELIEVE me, it doesn't work

But this is the best suggestion the staff can tell me... run scared at every situation, or else you will suffer the consequences*

The phrase is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." The
difference in the wording is rather important to the point it makes.

*ahh, nice little jab there, my mistake, obviously*

Do you treat staff with the courtesy and respect with which you wish to be
treated? From looking at things you have said in the past, I can tell you
that you do not. Do you enter consultations and immediately turn combative
or do you do as you are instructed and calmly represent your side of things
when a GameMaster comes to speak with you? I can tell you, you tend to do
the former rather than the latter. Do you make any attempt to understand
the other person's side of things? It certainly does not seem that
way. Did you apologize?

*Any rhetorical questions i send are %95 of the time dismissed without being glanced at. And is there anyone here, who wouldn't be a little short with a GM, when it is clearly obvious they are out to ruin your fun? In this instance, being combative, equates to asking why i was pulled into the consultation lounge, when it was clear there was no issue of consent... With as many staff interactions as i have, howcome little notes are added if i'm not in the best of moods, and when i am in a good mood, which is most of the time, and i'm clear, concise, and logical, no notes are taken?... Oh, and let me appologize here, I, Urgoyle, do hearby beg your forgiveness for existing... it's not like i mistakenly killed a player from area splash or something, there's no need to appologize to anybody in this situation*

From the system logs, it appears to me more like you are using others poor
behavior as an excuse to escalate a conflict.

*You mean the same logs that can only confirm things against me, and nothing in my favor, right?... And man, i must be a seriously bad person, if people treat me like sh..er..crap, and i use that as an excuse to treat them the same way*

>If someone does something to me, why am i not allowed to do it back? What
>about the recent example with Kharhazz?

He sought you out. Instead of doing as you were instructed, follow up your
REPORT with an assist to record the details and get a referral you
continued to interact with Kharhazz. He killed you, you killed him. Had
you shown restraint and done as you were instructed, then it would be
easier for our staff to help you.

*So if you are a staff friend, or your opponent is hated by the staff, do whatever the frick you want to him, 'continued to interact' is nice too, i'm still waiting for an explanation of how Kharhazz found me, e-waved me, and boiled me to death, when i was invisible, and unpresenced, foraging around... When i had to strike back against him, it took about 50 symbols of sight to get through his invisibility, and a fine of about 300k for doing it inside town..

The real kicker is how he told Andraste off after the conflict, told her to 'stay the hell outa my business', and <with me in front of her> told her 'fine, if you don't want me to harass him here, i'll IM him or something'.. Could you immagine if i was talking that way to a staff member?.. You think he'd get warned or something, no? What does Andraste say? "As long as it isn't in the game, do whatever you want", nothing like encouraging harassment*

If you expect us to enforce a no contact order between yourself and someone
else, then you need to follow the instructions given to you. You should
have said and done absolutely nothing to Kharhazz other than "Please leave
me alone. I am not interested in roleplaying with you", REPORTed once to
let the in-game staff know of the problem, you should have moved to another
room to end the current situation, and then follow the report with an
assist to record the details and get a referral. If you choose to interact
with someone with whom you previously had been instructed not to interact
as part of a no contact order, then we must believe you wish to interact
with them.

*Right, so if a nocontact is issued <thing which states 'First one of you to try to communicate with the other is warned for disruptive behavior, and very possibly locked out'>, and one of the people involved in it, decides to break the nocontact, and the other person responds, it must mean the other person wanted to, and it's his fault... Kinda neat how i managed to kill him anyway, you'd think a wizard vs empath would be a simple and sweet victory, I, however, happened to train my character to be able to defend himself, if he was attacked simply out of weakness... Again, could you immagine what happened if _I_ went up and threatened/harassed/killed someone who i had a nocontact order with? I'd be banned for glancing at them*

So, it all comes down to you being responsible for your own actions. You
can not control other's actions, but you should be able to control your own.

*But, if other people decide to control my actions, and i refuse to let them, i'm in the wrong <A good example are the empaths who think i'm doing my job too well, who DEMAND that i heal the way they tell me to, with rules they have written up*

>Is it, in anyway, shape, or form, possible that i just MIGHT be in the right
>here? That i'm acting like any other player would, but because i play a cold
>character, and i don't have lots of in-game friends, i don't have any GM
>friends, and i keep people at a distance, that i suffer for it?

This is rhetorical in nature, but I will answer anyway. Is it possible
your most recent offense was simply a matter of
miscommunication? Yes. Having friends is not a requirement for playing
any MMORG but there certain basic behaviors that are necessary to getting
along in them, most basic of which is not going out of your way to annoy
the other players.

*If there's any possibility a miscommunication led to a lockout, shouldn't it have been reviewed a little more carefully? Apparantly 'going out of my way to annoy other players' is existing... Some people are jealous of my character, and my command of abilities, obviously, who wouldn't want the ability to cast every spell an empath could, have plenty of imbedded old items, familiars, implosions, scrolls with boils and everything else on it, and the ability to, at your whim, pick someone who's been killed, locate, fog to, save, heal, raise, spell up, wave to, and leave?... That is my character... black of heart, but an empath in the end...

You'd think if i were out to get everyone, as it's so implied, i'd be a rogue, with 300 ranks in picking pockets, and i'd loot the pocket of every empath, cleric, and whoever-the-hell else i wanted to.... say, that's not such a bad idea anymore, is it?*

Do you need friends on staff? Nope, in fact under any normal circumstance
any staff member you were friends with is unlikely to handle situations
involving your account unless they are certain they can do it without
showing bias. Since you can always appeal a decision with feedback for a
review and the staff is constantly subject to random observation by other
staff members, it would not make sense for any staff member to make biased
decisions based on past or current friendships as they would almost
certainly be caught.

*Overwhelming evidence states to the contrary*

>Would i
>really have to suck up to everyone, staff included, to be treated fairly?

No, but you do have to treat others with the same courtesy and respect with
which you wish to be treated. That does not mean you can not have
conflicts with their characters, it does mean that when things go too far
you act like a considerate adult and back off.

*Again, if someone's an idiot to me, it must be my fault, i'm the one who must pack up and leave... if i <being between 50-100 trains> decided to pick a 150th train person to annoy, and bicker at, and harass, how likely do you think it is, they would pack up and walk away?*

I have indicated in the past, the vast majority of our customers manage to
coexist with absolutely no problems. This would tend to imply it is not
that difficult to avoid problems with other players and the in-game staff.

*But woe be to the lone customer who pisses off a GM friend, or a PC of a GM*

As a result of your past problems, the onus is on you to make certain that
things do not go too far.

*The past problems, which can be created and added onto my account at a whim, and here it is again 'Because we don't like you, it's up to you to do your damndest to make sure that we do'*

Respectfully,

*::chuckles::*

GM Daecir
Simutronics Lockout

(If replying to this letter, please include the full text of our prior
correspondence.)
reg

05:55 PMI can tell you why a majority of the game coexists with eachother. They buy into the "lets be nice and happy" or.. least somewhat to that degree. However, if I play a dark or reclusive character, thigns become more complex. Example, My sorcerer is Sheruvian but if I cast evil eye on someone to scare them, i get in trouble. Heh

Amazing.

(and all that spell does is makem run, i make sure i wont killem or if i do i repay their deed)
reg

06:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bezerker:
I can tell you why a majority of the game coexists with eachother. They buy into the "lets be nice and happy" or.. least somewhat to that degree. However, if I play a dark or reclusive character, thigns become more complex. Example, My sorcerer is Sheruvian but if I cast evil eye on someone to scare them, i get in trouble. Heh
Amazing.
(and all that spell does is makem run, i make sure i wont killem or if i do i repay their deed)

If you play a dark character, well, you're in policy violation and should be banned forever. If you play a reclusive character, then you have no friends, so you become everyone's punching bag, if you play a dark AND reclusive character, kiss your ass g'bye.

-Urgoyle... Welcome to sparklysunshine@play.net! reg

06:37 PMThe topic: being banned for being a dark character. That is just utterly and totally preposterous. My character is dark in attitude, and has never been banned or even warned for being it. One does not need to engage in PvP as a requirement for RPing a dark character.

I've done the PvP thing a couple of times, either with consent or after reporting to the GMs my intent and waiting for one of them to say "don't do it." If I didn't get a "don't do it," I did it. In the 5+ years I played GS, I count less than 10 people my character has ever killed.

People who constantly PLACE themselves into situations KNOWING that the situation is ripe for PvP have no right to complain if they get whacked. I think it's ridiculous that the staff has such a weak front regarding the boulder situation or duels.

Anyone who goes to the boulder and stands there longer than a few minutes is ASKING for PvP. And the GMs should either leave the place alone, or ban the whole bunch of them for being disruptive to roleplay. They shouldn't pick and choose which they'll do on any given day. One or the other. This should apply to any area known for PvP.

Back when my character was lower level, that was the dinghy. We had matches of skill. Not duels, because a duel implies fighting for some sort of cause. It was more of a sparring match, with rules and witnesses and a count and sometimes even the GMs would watch invisible to see who won. I remember the only "duel" I had, that was with Charion. We were both bored and not in the mood to hunt or explore, and he was the "Champion" of the dinghy at the time.

So I challenged him, he agreed, we got Ylena and a bunch of other folk there. The rules: no magic, no weapons. Just a good old fashioned fist-fight. He was a much higher level character than Bestatte and I knew I didn't really have a chance. But I thought it would be fun to see how long it would take for him to pommel me into the ground, plus it would be entertaining for everyone there to see Charion using his fists. Well, I got one pretty decent shot in, hit him for 10 damage. And then he proceeded to flatten me to the bottom of the boat.

Everyone had a great time, it wasn't done to check DS, or see who could out-bolt anyone else, or take on the twits, etc. etc. It was just a fun sparring session, and the entire thing was 100% roleplayed by every person there. People standing in the boat with us used the "act" and "smile" verbs to lean forward, behave like interested and excited spectators, they yelled their heads off to urge us on, and we had a great time.

Nowadays, the only kind of thing I ever see is a group of people at the boulder just smacking each other around for kicks, to see who has the highest CS or AS or to see if their armor or redux is better. It's just silly and it isn't RP at all.

And for THAT reason, I think it should be considered against policy, because it does nothing to add to the atmosphere of a roleplaying game and can be disruptive and even deadly to any genuine newbie who finds the place while exploring and ends up getting hurt.

[This message has been edited by Desharei (edited 11-22-2001).] reg

10:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Urgoyle:
Must be damn fun being rich, because i know deep down, he could give a flying _F_ about how the rest of us here feel, i pondered e-mailing him, him being on the head of the simutronic's chain, but i've just got this feeling, with all the money he has, anything with 'Simutronics' 'Gemstone' 'Dragonrealms' or any other key words would either be deleted or forwarded to an underling to take care of it...

He'll read it. Probably won't respond though.
reg

10:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Klaive:
LoL!!!!! ::refrains from saying things that would get him kicked out of all Simutronics Products forever.::
- The Klaive!

Ahh, insulting your future boss already Klaive? Smart move.

reg

11:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by R:
People who constantly PLACE themselves into situations KNOWING that the situation is ripe for PvP have no right to complain if they get whacked. I think it's ridiculous that the staff has such a weak front regarding the boulder situation or duels.

Hey Bessy (yep, it's me, Matubaa). Does that mean if someone runs up to you, punches and kicks you, slaps you around a little, etc., you have the right to kill them? Well you don't. I had my share of incidents as Matubaa where lower level people (20-40) would start slapping me around becouse they knew if I retributed I would be the one in trouble. Back then I was a bit of a push over IRL and wouldn't risk my character I had spent years on.

I play an, oddly enough, Lawful Good character (According to that D&D alignment test) and if I could kill everyone I wanted to I would be killing a player a week. Last night I was at Balouga's raffle, she killed two players with a vorpreal weapon. Part of my RP is that if I see an injustice I act -- so I proceded to swing at her.

Do you know what Balouga said? From memory I belieave it was, "Are you really that stupid," and the body of players inside all cheered her on, they were sucking up to the merchant. Frankly the moment she dropped the second player I think 1/10th of the people in the room should have jumped her if they were actually RPing their normal characters. This speaks volumes about the mentality of players and GMs, I doubt she would have had the same responce had it been one of the knighted players and she knew them.

It sickens me to think that I have to:
A) Avoid conflict with another character because their player may not be comfortable with combating me although they're certinly comfortable verbally assaulting me and my character.
B) To resolve the situation I must contact a GameMaster and either get their permission or hand it over to them.
C) Suddenly become OOC by reacting to parameters a party brings to the environment in a way Zachary would not react.
D) Be banned.

Can anyone tell me why player characters vs. player character conflicts are so restricted today? It's not like I plan to go out and deed someone or loot their corpse. Seriously, a lot of people are whiny little babies who want to be IC when it suits them and jump OOC as soon as they lose. What do the snerts care, it's win win for them if they pick a fight with someone older.

One last thing. I will never ask a GM for permission to kill another character. If I get to the point where I need to ask then killing the person is criticle to my RP.

I will not sit RP out because I'm at a merchant.

I will not sit RP out becouse a character is 100 levels less than me.

I will not sit RP out because a player says no when his character has obviously said yes.

I will not sit RP out because this is a roleplaying game and if I wanted to play purely and solely to level then there are dozens of other games out there I could level in a heck of a lot faster.

--Jonathan Ross, Player of Zachary Haedden
PS: If someone wants to duel on a boulder that's their choice, I'm talking about day to day gaming. And Roberta, this post isn't directed toward you, I just was wondering what you ment percicly. reg

12:16 AMHey there!

Yeah I am of a like mind about this whole PvP banning issue.

This is supposed to be a roleplaying game. By virtue of the definition, set forth in the policies of the game, people should *assume* that everyone is roleplaying when their characters get into conflict with each other. That should - SHOULD - be a given. Unfortunately it isn't a given, and therein lies the problem. Until and unless Staff gives the *official* go-ahead for roleplayers to treat the game like a roleplaying game, for better or for worse, there will be problems.

If someone came up to me in the other game (look down into the "other games" folder for info on that) and kicked my character, SHE (not *I* ) would cast the snot out of the offending kicker, and THEN have the nightblades drag him off to jail. On the other hand, in that game, people don't just walk up to other people and kick them for the heck of it, or to get a rise out of the other person, or to instigate a fight.

This is no slight against children - since most I know are more well behaved than many of the adults I've met in Gemstone.

But honestly - characters who are supposedly *ADULTS* who walk up to someone and slap them or pinch them simply because it's a kewl verb and they can - remind me of a couple of the kids I substitute teach for in 2nd grade who have a problem with playing nice. They bite and pinch each other, then the victim comes crying to me. As a teacher, I have to separate the offender from the rest of the entire group and keep him in a corner until class is over. This is no different from being locked out or stuck in the consultation lounge for a few days.

Behave like a 2nd grader with a behavior problem, expect to be treated like one. No matter how old you are. When was the last time a mature person - of any age - walked up to you and kicked you in real life? If such a thing ever did happen, what would you do? What would you have the right to do? What would happen to you and what would happen to the person who did it?

I'll tell ya - if someone kicked me in real life, I'd call the police, the person would be arrested for assault and battery, and would end up in jail until such time as the lawyers could bail him out or until he served his sentence.

There is no reason why this can't happen in Gemstone, except that the mentality of the people who do such offensive things prevents it and the mentality of the staff refuses to allow it. They have no trust in the maturity of the players, and rightfully so. The players have proven themselves incapable of behaving like mature characters. Punish the victim by refusing to allow justice, simply because a verb doesn't actually cause physical damage to the character.

I got news for ya, staff geniuses. The verbs exist to help make the game more real and in-depth to the players, to help them get deeper into the RP. By refusing to allow and ENFORCE the players acceptance of the consequences of their own behavior, whether it be attacking with a weapon or biting someone on the arm, you are refusing to accept roleplay in this roleplaying game.

R
reg

04:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Zachary:
Hey Bessy (yep, it's me, Matubaa). Does that mean if someone runs up to you, punches and kicks you, slaps you around a little, etc., you have the right to kill them? Well you don't. I had my share of incidents as Matubaa where lower level people (20-40) would start slapping me around becouse they knew if I retributed I would be the one in trouble. Back then I was a bit of a push over IRL and wouldn't risk my character I had spent years on.
...
--Jonathan Ross, Player of Zachary Haedden
PS: If someone wants to duel on a boulder that's their choice, I'm talking about day to day gaming. And Roberta, this post isn't directed toward you, I just was wondering what you ment percicly.

People also change Zachary, many times for the better. I can recall one time in the catacombs or ants, I do not recall which, when I was hunting with a partner and you came across us and in an altercation you warned us that we should back off as you had an older brother Matubaa who was a level 60 something sorcerer.

I've improved since then and I'm sure you have as well but the point is there is rarely a need to actually attack someone, words _should_ be able to get your point across some 95% of the time.

As much as I would like to agree with a dueling verb of some kind I see it as something that would be quickly flying at us from all sorts of bored players with little to no imagination beyond "Attack Jo Bob"".

Anyone who really wishes to duel should at the least know their opponent enough to know if they will or will not turn around and decide to report you.

If not, then you are playing with fire and if you get burned have no one to blame but yourself.

reg

11:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Skirmisher:

People also change Zachary, many times for the better. I can recall one time in the catacombs or ants, I do not recall which, when I was hunting with a partner and you came across us and in an altercation you warned us that we should back off as you had an older brother Matubaa who was a level 60 something sorcerer.

Hmmm... I can guarantee you I never said that. Someone else may have claimed that their older brother was Matubaa (in fact I can probably guess who -- Macchris per chance?).

I only had two characters then, Braxe and Matubaa, and Braxe was only on at the same time since I RPd him as my dumb slave. I wrote a script for him -- he couldn't hunt, but he could do small chores for me like run from the HS steps to the bank with silvers or put stuff in the locker. Only one or two people ever figured out he was a script since I could whisper/speak to him and he would say the things and he would whisper to me anything someone whispered to him.

The only time I ever claimed I would bring my "big brother" in was about 3 or 4 years ago when someone said they were going to bring their level 40 older brother in to cream me. In fact they did bring their older brother in and so I brought Matubaa in and taught them it wasn't a good idea to go down that road That was in fire salamanders BTW.

I'm not claiming as Matubaa that I never did anything on the scale of claiming I was going to bring in an older brother, I'm sure I did some things like that, but I never did that.

--Jonathan Ross, Player of Zachary Haedden reg

11:11 AM

quote:
I have applied to be a GM recently myself. And I feel that when I am accepted,....

... that will be the day I cancel my Simu account.

reg

02:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Siara:

... that will be the day I cancel my Simu account.

Oh you will not! If all the crappy changes GemStone III has gone through recently haven't driven you away, nothing will.

Face it, you're here to stay... until you grow out of GS at least, which may be never.

Simutronics could set the majority of their customers on FIRE and not have to worry about any account cancellations.

- The Klaive reg

03:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Klaive:
Simutronics could set the majority of their customers on FIRE and not have to worry about any account cancellations.

Not me. I rather like my skin.

I think this brings up a whole other issue; Gemstone III is just a game.

Some people get so worked up by such trivial, insignificant things (in the grand scheme of things, anyway), that they really miss out on the good things that GS3 has to offer.

Good times in Gemstone are out there... you just have to go find them and make the best of things. Just my two cents, anyway. Sorry if it starts a rant.

((Edited for clarity. Dern UBB code.))

------------------
-Emtel

[This message has been edited by Emtel (edited 11-24-2001).] reg

04:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Desharei:

Nowadays, the only kind of thing I ever see is a group of people at the boulder just smacking each other around for kicks, to see who has the highest CS or AS or to see if their armor or redux is better. It's just silly and it isn't RP at all.
(edited 11-22-2001).]

Ya said it was a show of skill didja not? Uhh.. to my character, in character, having a higher CS, is skill, he does not KNOW a CS, he simply knows that because of some factor, he's able to penetrate someones magic defenses better than someone else. Same with redux. My rogue's trained in reducing the damage from blows,and he's comparing that "skill". It all depends on what view you look at it in. Now of course theres the people who say "I need to test my CS.. let me duel you" .. but theres nothing wrong with "let me bolt you" heh.. considering.. well thats what the spell is.. a bolt heh.

I've never ran into a problem at the boulder myself, and i've been in plenty of situations where people could have complained. The funniest situation was last night. I was there with my rogue, Seanathon wanted to fight him he kept swinging, so i just looted his coins and a gem and snickered to myself. When he found out it was me, he swung again, so.. i whipped out a dagger (fully expecting to get killed for this even though im like.. 3x his training). and took a cut at his eye, didnt do much, just wanted to leave a slice heh (which i did). So he feras's me to death.. boom im down. I get raised and im in the shadows .. seanathon pops on the boulder 'I wouldnt do it" "whys that?" "The GODS are watching" "Oh? yer point?.. gods always watch" "Yes well, I don't wish to initiate in pvp conflict with you" .. at this point when he said that i just blinked and smirked, and he continued "A situation which involved pvp has ended, i killed you, it is over" so.. im sittin there smirkin my ass off.. i simply replied with "Ok.. what if i stole again.. and you swung again. I have every right to protect myself and my way of making a living." (which is true my rogue's got roleplay reasons for stealing). So.. heh. I went, got healed because i couldn't hide anymore with the nerve damage i had, so as i come back.. im snickering coz he got pulled by the gm's into the lounge im guessin, was gone a good 20 min too ::laugh::.

That is how to handle boulder situations. None of this, swing and let me kill you no matter what thing.
Let them hang themself. More than most people don't mind roleplaying a situation with conflict, especially if you offer to pay for the deed.
Ah well, people will never learn I guess. Its easy to avoid being banned by the GM's for conflict and stuff, certain things make it harder, but.. boulder wise... ive never had a problem. which is .. amazing :P

reg

04:39 PM

quote:
Let them hang themself. More than most people don't mind roleplaying a situation with conflict, especially if you offer to pay for the deed.

And you don't see how this is NOT roleplay?

Excuse me if I hurl, then.

R
reg

11:41 PM<<<Simutronics could set the majority of their customers on FIRE and not have to worry about any account cancellations.

- The Klaive>>>

You will fit right in Klaive.

Ah to live in ignorance.

Hiway-watching the numbers shrink and shrink

reg

10:54 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Desharei:
And you don't see how this is NOT roleplay?
Excuse me if I hurl, then.
R

Blame the stupid rules the GM's put in regarding pvp conflict. My character is a bloody assassin, i got an offer today for 50k to offsomeone and make it look like an accident, i had toreply "Im sorry, icant unless hes a willing participant" and explain why etc.
I just dont agree with the system thasall. Theres no chance to escape it. You compare it to real life cops.. Thats fine.. get me real life guards.. actual NPC's that will hutn me down and jail or kill me. I don't mind that. Its fun to run from the cops...

(reminds me of this old PK mud i used to play on .. like carrion fields but smaller knit.. there was one clan which were the law enforcers.. basically.. kill someone in town, they cud flag ya, and theyd have to try to kill ya while the mobs in the game wud also hutn ya down.. biggest being "hunter" (the uber executioner).. heh was damn fun
But .. their current system for handling Roleplayed pvp events is in need of work.

if my character does something .. shady.. or .. even .. mean (aka, taking out someone younger than me) .. thats unfair yes.. but i would have been doing it for a roleplay persona reason, and it would have been replied to with an OOC action (report .. then i get pulled .a nd questioned etc). It should be responded to with an in character response. The only in char response I ever had was once when teh constable was GM controlled n huntin me down
thats it.

reg

03:38 PMThis topic does not follow the original topic idea.

I'm closing the topic on those grounds...you can go to PvP... for more posts on the situation being discussed now.

I will also bring to light another topic for discussion. reg

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