The Players Corner Archive

Someone called Simutronics and said they lost their PW. They sent it to the email on the website. Then the next day Zurrian logs on after he had been deeded. All his stuff gone.

Now how am I involved? Well, the plate was being sold on the net that was stolen. I bought it for 50m. Then Simutronics bans the person that hacked the account and then tells Zurrian he gave out his PW. I was suppose to deliver rest of the coins for the plate later and he tells me they perma banned him for hacking. Then I have never heard from him again.

Plus, I am letting Tsin purchase it back for what I got into it. I could have sold it for 60m and made 10m profit.

Now. Why do you ban someone for hacking. Then don't return the items? I waited until they told him. Nothing will be returned. I would have returned the plate for my items and coins back.

Today Tsin was telling someone(whisper) ingame what happened and gets this.

SEND[Daecir] I have warned you about making that claim. Simutronics sent your password the to the email address on file. If you persist in attempting to blame Simutronics, you will be warned for disruptive behavior.

Now Daecir is NOT a ingame GM. Why would he come ingame and threaten a warning? He is saying he will warn him ingame or out if he keeps telling people this. Wow! Censorship ingame and out. An this is not Scint either!

Will put all the correspondance on the next posts.....

edge

reg

- Zurrainn

At 12:21 AM 10/29/01 -0500, you wrote:
>This is the owner of the account Zurrainn.. I have been waiting an
EXTREMELY
>long time now for the return of my Stolen goods. It is impossible for my
>friends and I to have any faith, when something like this happens the right
>thing is not done. Yet AGAIN.. I state the facts. My password was unshared
>and unbreakable by any human guessing. The credit card and security
question
>were my knowledge and my knowledge alone. Upon coming back from a 2 day
>vacation.. I found that all my gear had been stripped and my 133 train
sorcer>had been killed off to 0 deeds and then subsequently deleted from the
>account. It was only after I called and had report the crime did I get him
>back. My friends and I all agree that justice must be done.. I have seen
one
>of my most valuable possessions.. but it doesn't come near to close as what
I>lost. It was over 3 years of work totalling 200m! I can't give up on all my
>work. PLEASE do something.
>
>- Zurrainn
I am sorry, but you have already been told repeatedly that no restoral will
be authorized. Since you fail to tell your friends the entire truth about
the situation I am not surprised they think a great injustice has been
done, however that does not change the fact the security of your account
was not compromised by Simutronics and this is simply not a situation in
which a restoral is merited.
Respectfully,

GM Daecir
Simutronics Lockout
(If replying to this letter, please include the full text of our prior
correspondence.)
------------------------------------------------------
I don't quite understand how you mean I haven't told my friends all the
truth.. They have been with me since day 1.. They have watched me spend
YEARS of time to earn all those things. And then have them taken away from
me in an instant. The facts are the same every story that has ever been
told.. NOBODY had access to Zurrainn but me.. and there is no possible way
anyone could have gotten access unless the password was emailed to a
hacker dumby account. A restoral should be granted immediately. MY last 5
years have been ruined by a mistake I had no control over.

Simutronics is a privately held business and as such may decide with whom
it wishes to do business. We have opted not to do business with the person
responsible for a disruptive incident of this nature. Simutronics is not a
court of law nor does it have any responsibility to act like one.

In cases of unauthorized access Simutronics WILL go after the person
responsible, however account security is the responsibility of the account
holder. Simutronics has done everything possible to ensure the security of
your account. If you breach the security of your account by sharing
access, choosing a poor password or failing to update your account
information, there is simply nothing more we can do to safeguard your
account.

Simutronics did NOT give out your password, our system worked exactly as
designed. The password was sent to the EMAIL ADDRESS ON RECORD for your
account (a standard practice for internet accounts with forgotten or lost
passwords), in order to change the email address the person would already
have to have HAD the password to log into the account to make that
change. The number of failed attempts to log into your account totalled
fourteen from the IP of the person responsible the day the email address
was changed, if your password had been secure and was not shared there is
simply no way it could have been broken in fourteen attempts. I am sorry,
ALL of the information available to me points to you having breached the
security of your account by; choosing a very similar password to one you
had previously (we know that the account has been accessed by people other
than yourself in the past), failing to update your account information with
the correct email address, downloading a password sniffer or simply having
chosen a very poor password.

Simutronics replaces items only in situations where the loss is a result of
a verifiable problem for which Simutronics is responsible. This is not the
case with your account, therefore no restoral or replacement will be
authorized.

I am sorry, but the decision stands and continuing to write to the customer
service department about this (resolved) matter will likely result in all
of your accounts being suspended. Additionally, should you continue to
falsely accuse Simutronics of just giving out your password in-game you
will receive a warning for disruptive behavior and face the possible
closure of your accounts. If you assist about this matter again in-game, a
warning for disruptive behavior will be issued.

This office has repeatedly explained what happened, that you continue to
ignore the decision, explanation and lie to our other customers about the
incident is a problem. Any further correspondence from you about this
matter will receive no reply.

GM Daecir
Simutronics Lockout

(If replying to this letter, please include the full text of our prior
correspondence.)
reg

d I was minutes away from losing a 133 train sorcerer. I am bitterly appalled
at how insecure I feel now about my belongings and the security of
Simutronics. My things must be returned and I would like to know that this
could not happen again.

- Zurrainn

It was not a failure on Simutronics' part that breached the security of your
account. In the past it has been observed that you have shared access to
your account. Simutronics has always strongly recommended you not breach the
security of your account by sharing security information (such as the
password) with another person.

7/15/01 2:23:01 PM
through
9/28/01 8:21:25 PM Password remains the same short string of characters

9/28/01 8:21:25 PM A minor (one character?) change was made to the password.
9/30/01 12:23 PM You contacted our billing office to change the security
question and answer for the account. No other information was changed.
9/30/01 8:23:51 PM Password changed to something new via the website,
required old password.
9/30/01 8:28:37 PM The email address on file was changed via the website
(this would requires the person be logged into the account, and thus already
had the password).
9/30/01 9:54:01 PM Password returns to the same as password as 9/28/01
10/02/01 11:47:39 AM A request was made on the website for a reminder of the
current password to be sent to the email address on file for the account.
10/02/01 11:50:03 AM Our system sent the password to the email address on
record.
10/02/01 12:54:42 PM Password changed via the website after logging in with
the old password.

I am sorry, but you as the account holder are responsible for your account's
security. If you share your account, choose a poor password or fail to keep
your account's information updated there is simply nothing more we can do to
protect your account. As this is seems to be a situation where you breached
your account's security by sharing the password with another person allowing
them access to the account to change the email address on record, no
replacement will be authorized.

Providing a reminder via email of the current password to the email address
provided by yourself or someone you permitted to access your account is not a
security breach for which Simutronics is responsible. There is absolutely no
reason for us to require the credit card information or security answer to
send an email reminder of the password to the email address on record for the
account (note this is a standard feature for many internet sites).

However, acts of this nature are considered to be disruptive and this office
WILL ensure those responsible do not gain from their actions. I hope some
small comfort can be gained in the knowledge the person that did this to your
characters will not gain.

Respectfully,

GM Daecir
Simutronics Lockout
reg

But, I have called billing and changed billing on another persons account without knowing the security question. But that has only happened once. That I wasn't asked the security question.

I have also been told my account info ingame once. Had my accounts put into a cell tell I could change the security question.

But to say they have observed you sharing a account. That is BS. A person was reporting saying someone was on Malok and he has NEVER let anyone have access to him. In fact it was Melok that was asking me if that was the real Malok and saying he reported it. Needless to say when I told him. He was extremely pissed.

I think if he was hacked, they items should be returned. That is fair.

I been waiting to post this for the other hacking incident info. But after the SEND I thought I will post this. The other incident is one that I do have a strong opinion on.

edge reg

I thought that was the purpose of registering special/valuable items in the office at Moot Hall... so that in cases like this, items could be identified and returned to the rightful owner.

Summer reg

Sonic reg

It also makes me a little uneasy how irrate Daecir is getting in his sends about how Simutronics is 'portrayed' to other players. I'm pretty damn sure that's not the first time someone has trashed Simutronics inside of the game.

I think security should be beefed up when it comes to passwords and accounts...

reg

Leslie reg

He lost almost 1bil in items. The person dumped most of the items into the well and they would not restore them. They only gave him the items that was still ingame and they could retreive.

But this also makes you wonder how Blades got restored when he went demonic.

Remember. Simutronics does not have to be fair or equal to customers that pay the same amount for the same service.

But that is what we are here fighting for. I do so hate discrimination.

edge

[This message has been edited by edge (edited 11-16-2001).] reg

Summer>>

The (main) purpose of registering stuff in the moot hall is if something gets lost in a crash or something, having it registered makes it a lot easier for a GM to recreate the item. I don't know the details but that's the "doesn't know how things work from the GMs' point of view" answer. reg

Well, I suppose it depends upon the circumstances then. My account was hacked a while back, maybe policies have changed since, but all of my items were either recovered or replaced.

Leslie

------------------
Smell that shoe! reg

Speaker said to me. I don't know any GMs and I truely believe I would have gotten everything back if I did. But after 6 months of writing feedback and getting different answer, I give up. Then gave me permission to post about it.

They truely could care less for the players I believe.

For 1bil in items. That's 18,000 dollars in items. I would buy the ass whooping on ebay for that person that costed me that! 18 grand would buy a lot of broken legs I would guess....Someone steals that much from me. I would be going to jail for killing them. I couldn't sit still and live with that much of a loss. That is how I look at stuff in gemstone. But that has also ruined it for me lately. But a whole different issue.

Could you imagine lossing that much money? God, I would be looking for someone to take 18 grand of pain out on.

But what we keep seeing is this.

If you aren't one of the butt buddies - you get reamed

If you are - throw the rule book out the window

It's a load of crap crap crap crap. I said CRAP!

Wait till I go drinking then reads this topic! Damn, I wasn't going to have a opinion.

But here is my opinion. Zurrian soul may have had some bad dealings. But did he deserve being hacked and deeded\decayed? Then when they ban a person for that hacking. Why will they not return the items?

Do we have ALL the FACTs also? Or was I sent just enough and told enough to get me to post. That is for all the readers to determine.

Also I been trying to find the log of me buying the plate. I just can't remember the characters name it was from. But on the other hand I buy and sell stuff nonstop so I don't remember everyone.

edge

reg

Someone wonders about this?

reg

Lord Deprav reg

Since Edgeleaf did not have all the details of this enormous atrocity.. I will fill in.

First, after having ALL of my items on me for approximately 10 hours.. (midnight until 10am) I woke up to find that I was dead. 0 deeds and dead. How many people do you know let a 134th trained sorcerer die with 0 deeds! None... This is because I was hacked and killed off. Secondly, after the shock finally wore off and I bought some deeds, I realized I was naked. Over 200 million silvers in gear and coin were gone. An ENTIRE mithril alloy set which took years to create vanished.. Among this set was:
a double-edged mithril alloy hatchet.. with show. 10x ice flares altered waraxe.
an elven-style spiked shield.. with show. 10x 99/225
some ancestral mithril alloy plate.. 6x very heavily crit padded full plate, lightened to 43 lbs.
Along with about 25 UNIQUE alters, half of which had show descriptions. These alters were priceless to me, and must be returned. The thing that pisses me off the most about this, is that they proved I was hacked and banned someone for it, like Edgeleaf said. Simutronics WOULD NOT tell me ANYTHING about what happened to me, where my items are, or who took them. They could at least have the DECENCY to tell me who took my things and where they were!! I don't know what kind of messed up company allows hackers to steal items and get away with it.. If everyone can please keep their eyes open for ANY mithril alloy things, I would be gratefully appreciative. Please help me get my things returned to their rightful owner. Years of my life, and hundreds of dollars worth of account bills were suddenly wasted. reg

Bottom line Simu Screwed up...But you fight with a tyrant of sorts which in my own personal experience..you cannot win against

Ive been hacked alot in 7 years...400m worth of stuff..I sucked it up and rebuilt..Its Important to have good friends <You know who you are> In the end friends are what enable you to go on

Simu Claims Ignorance...Figures

Vivid reg

All of my items were given away, except for three which were thrown down the well. (Thingul Diamond, an unnavable ring, and an altered sack) Speaker was retrained as well.

My friends were great in helping provide Simu with the information that I was hacked, and a second account (on a different credit card) let me talk ingame with some GM's about the circumstances.

The GM's retrieved a little more than 1/2 of the items (I had 74 items total) that were given away, from the players who had taken them and they were eventually given back to me.

Lockout declined my request for character restoral and item replacement, because one of my accounts was shared, at one time. (Speaker was never a shared account, and at the time of the hacking, my other account wasn't shared either)

Feedback declined my request for further item replacement and character restoral, with the exception of what I already recieved.

I then spoke with Melissa, she declined my request for further reimbursement, and I continued to push the issue until I sort of hit a wall with Neil Harris (Simu VP) who told me that Melissa had taken a very detailed look at my situation and that she had made the right call.

My main issue was that if I recieved anything, and they acknowledge that I was hacked, (which they did) then I should get complete reimbursment.

Furthermore there was a matter of 7 items that players had claimed were confiscated by GM's but were not returned to me. A few GM's looked into this for me.

After about 4 months of correspondance I basically gave up, I couldn't really go any higher up on the food chain than Neil Harris anyway. I was at one point trying to locate people that were hacked and had items actually "recreated" for them, to make the case that if it was done before, why can't I have two of my items recreated?

My big gripe was with the Thingul diamond, and I'd still like it recreated, but I don't think there is much likelyhood in that.

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that it is within Simu's policy to recreate items when they feel inclined to do so, under any circumstance, so I don't buy into the whole it's against policy to recreate items for you.

*Clip from Repair and Replacement Policy*
"Simutronics will attempt to investigate the problem, and may, at its sole discretion, authorize adjustments to your score or inventory."

Well, that's the whole story! I'd have to say that if I got nothing back, (About 300-400 mil in items were returned) I wouldn't be playing any longer.

I think the main questions are...
A. If GM's acknowledge the fact that you were legitimately hacked, should you recieve complete reimbursment?

B. If you get one item back, should everything be replaced?

Speaker

reg

Lord Deprav reg

I dont think so. More then one GM was working on my case and it still took them over 6 months to replace/recover the items I lost. I know at least 3 GMs were working on it. That's a big project for someone to do just for me, let alone at least 3 GMs.

Leslie

------------------
Smell that shoe! reg

The only thing he did for that character is to hack him much worse than it would have hurt if he had been demoniced. It would have been much better if they finished the job. reg

I'd be curious to know the details of your hacking, not so much your dealings with the GM's but just how you got hacked innitially if you'd be willing to share. I think it'd be of benefit to know under what circumstances items are actually recreated.

Speaker reg

There aren't really any details. Only one other person knew my password and that was my significant other. I know I saw one of my items up for sale on the boards and the GMs ended up getting that item back. Hmmm. I am not sure how much actually was recovered and how much was recreated.

Around the same time someone else had gotten hacked. I dunno if they were connected.

Leslie

------------------
Smell that shoe! reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by edge:
SEND[Daecir] I have warned you about making that claim. Simutronics sent your password the to the email address on file. If you persist in attempting to blame Simutronics, you will be warned for disruptive behavior.

Now Daecir is NOT a ingame GM. Why would he come ingame and threaten a warning? He is saying he will warn him ingame or out if he keeps telling people this. Wow! Censorship ingame and out. An this is not Scint either!

edge

---

1. GM Daecir is head of lockout. He works out of the office. It doesn't make him any less a GM than those who work remotely, matter of fact, I would afford him with more regard than a remote GM given his position.

2. Why didn't the email address connected to the billing information go to the right person?

3. The responsibility of keeping the email address current (which you can do from the web site) is with the player.

4. As is account security. Don't share passwords, don't save them on the SGE, don't leave them lying out in the open where friends can see it. Don't leave your character logged in and then get up from your keyboard and walk away, leaving your information accessible to friends and little brothers. Change your password often, use an alpha-numerical combination of 8 or more characters. Do not use words or numbers only, especially if they relate to something in real life that someone who knows enough about you could guess.

Don't use a password like DrowningPool2001. Two words and a number, especially at the end, can be easily hacked by a password cracker.

Using something like Dr2ow0nin0gP1ool is infinitely harder to crack.

--A. reg

Vividarium reg

I have put up with weeks and weeks and weeks of nothing but excuses from Simutronics. They claim they sent the pw to the email on account.. But they also sent me the log.. email address changed.. password requested.. stuff stolen.. charactered demoniced.

If I had not luckily arrived at the last second, there might not have been anything left at all. It not only makes me feel insecure with my accounts, but also lets EVERYONE else who knows me, unsure about the security of Simutronics.

The bottom line is.. you proved that my stuff was stolen by banning someone for the job. You acknowledged the illegal change of email address to gain the password.. You acknowledged hacking by restoring Zurrainn from the account.. But yet you still do not tell me ANYTHING.. or anyway help to recover years of my work.

- Zurrainn reg

When I lost Lockae, the GMs didn't do a daaaaaaammmmnnnn thing. Nothing. I lost $4,000 in equipment, some of which didn't even belong to me (ask Edge), and YES I was looking for some kneecaps to shatter. But what does it matter? The GMs wanted me gone, and gone I am, with my middle finger raised high.

Some pretended to care, and some were too busy getting their "insider" love from the same people who get the rule book thrown out for them. Simutronics is no more of a company than the KKK. That's my final answer, if you wanna ban me, bring it on. I'll bring on my Class E Discrimation Lawsuite.

-The Ex Skirt Wearer.
Lockae reg

(This kids is why you actually try NOT to be addicted to computer games so that you stay up till 5am for 3 days straight. Emm Hmm.)

Have a nice day <G>
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by GMAndraste:
Change your password often, use an alpha-numerical combination of 8 or more characters.

---

Shame passwords aren't case sensitive, you'd have it even more secure. reg

R
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rhain:

How weird. They auto-sent the password to an email that had JUST been changed without asking the security question?

It also makes me a little uneasy how irrate Daecir is getting in his sends about how Simutronics is 'portrayed' to other players. I'm pretty damn sure that's not the first time someone has trashed Simutronics inside of the game.

I think security should be beefed up when it comes to passwords and accounts...

---

That has always been the case, especially recently. If you disagree with Daecir or come back with valid points to him/her he will bann you for it. Disagree with the staff and you get labeled disruptive.

Hiway- I know
reg

WRONG!

I can log onto my character from other computers which I have done countless times while on the road in my job. IP addresses do NOT work as a valid way to determine identity of user.

Also banning my wife's account is illegal discrimination. There is NEVER a way to verify who is behind the keyboard. Simu stating just because we have the same address is hogwash.

My wife has reported their behavior to the Better Business Bureau of St. Loius and they are investigating it.

I would also suggest this be done with this case.

Hiway reg

Since it's not really his account, at least him and the owner have the password.

If you give your PW out to other people and you end up getting screwed just suck it up and don't complain. That happened to me and I was jacked out about 100m in crap. Did I complain? No, it was my own goddamn fault for sharing. If you are going to give out your PW, expect something bad to eventually happen

That about sums it up, especially when you're leaving all your great items on a character that's not even really yours to begin with.

If you aren't one of the butt buddies - you get reamed

If you are - throw the rule book out the window

From personal experience, I agree.

[This message has been edited by Cassioppia (edited 11-17-2001).] reg

Simutronics has the RIGHT - the absolute total uber complete RIGHT - to lock out anyone they wish to lock out with those above exceptions. For ANY reason. Even if they don't like the color of your hair. At the present time, hair color discrimination is NOT illegal. In fact, I can refuse to HIRE someone with red hair and ain't nothing the applicant can do about it.

I can also refuse to work for someone who wears brown loafers, and Simutronics CAN lock out your wife if they want to. Unless you can prove they did it because she's a woman, disabled, a lesbian, etc.

In addition, there are private orginizations that discriminate LEGALLY. The Knights of Columbus allows membership ONLY to men. Wives are not allowed to join. It is NOT illegal. It is a private organization. The Ku Kux Klan is allowed - ALLOWED - to refuse membership to black people and Jews. It's one of the freedoms we have as citizens of this country. Shall I go on?

Roberta
reg

In June Vivid was hacked..Part of a group Hacking Myself Delgoth and three others were hit..This person took no Alters Just weapon Shields and Armor...Mahegh told me he knows who did it yet cannot tell me..Some things of the other persons who were hacked were restored...As for me I have yet to even hear anything, Delgoth ended up leaving due to the lack od Support from Simu. I think they need to beef up policy to really support the victim of the hacking... Am I wrong in this?

If they replace some stuff all should be returned! Simu lost customers over it too,
You wonder how they view us...as dollar signs or as paying loyal customers?
It seems the first is more correct..

Also Followthrough in all of my hackings as been terribile ...not to fault the GM's But not even a so much as a "yes we are still persuing it" Pisses me off

Vivid reg

Sonic reg

Lord Deprav reg

I could tell them my name is Jebediah Jones, I'm a black muslim male living in Cairo Egypt, and I'm gay with three male lovers and that I like my pancakes with chocolate syrup instead of maple and they wouldn't know me any more than they did before I signed up for the account.

You cannot be capable of discriminating against someone if you don't KNOW what you're discriminating them against.

They have no way to verify that anything on the application is true, except the billing stuff. Therefore they are not capable of discriminating against anyone as a result of anything on that application - UNLESS they've actually met the person - in person.

R

reg

Krystic reg

Krystic reg

Some know me, some don't. If you don't, well then I'm sorry but your going to have to trust what I say here. Please I do not wish for anyone to take offense. What I am going to say is based merely off what I've read.

The concepts of "hacked accounts" and "Cracked passwords" are very close to heart for me. I'm a security buff, plain and simple. I'm a UNIX admin who likes to dabble in personal hacking. As such, i'm familiar with how most of the 'hackers' out there work, in various formats. (Used to run with a few of those script kiddies myself heh). I've done it all, from trojaning a machine to sniffing packets to social engineering. Note, none of this was ever done with Gemstone as i happen to like my characters, I won't risk pissing the GM's off, as theyre so touchey. Anyhoos. Heres what Im seeing on this.

Im goind to try to keep my biased opinions to myself, but Daecir and I are not on best of terms, simply because of the bullshit that that very GM is putting my friend through unfairly.

Daecir says that the account was accessed within 14 tries. This leads me to believe that Zurrainn's password was somehow compromised beforehand. It has to be. If it was a "secure password" then it would take an inSANE amount of luck for a cracker, to crack that password brute force. He had to have something which would tip him off. How this happened, who knows, trojan? doubtful, he'd have the full thing more than likely. Sniffed packets? Also doubtful, though It does discourage me to think GS sends my login data plain text (i'd like a confirmation from the GM's if i might have one regarding this and the SGE). Back on track, somehow that password was compromised. Now, from what I understand, the account was logged into, and had the password sent. Heres the thing, in order for the email to be changed and sent to another address, a few things could have happened. One, somehow someone got logged in and changed that email address then had the password sent (which would be rather pointless since the cracker already had access)... 2> The email address in use on the account was old, and not updated, while another user took that email address. 3> the email address on the account WAS correct and somehow the email account became compromised (much more likely). 4> A server end exploit was used to the crackers advantage and was able to redirect the email to elsewhere. This I highly doubt, but in the day of modern hacks and without me knowing what software their billing servers run on, I would not be able to tell you, nor do I think if this was the case, we would ever know. Or 5> This is all complete BS.

So.. that means, something was likely insecure. MOST likely it was something on Zurrainn's end, whether he realized it or not. While the possibility that it was Simutronics fault, does exist (as ive proven too many companies that are "sure about their security" wrong in the past), it is much slimmer than the chance there was some sort of user error. Please! Hold your flames till the end.

How exactly did this happen? Who knows. Only the original cracker would know. I will bet a fine amount of money, that if this 'cracker' knows what he was doing, Simu won't even be able to piece together what happened, no matter how good their logs are. You may say, "No security question was asked". This is standard procedure for passwords that are misplaced or lost. If there is an email account on file, then the user's password will be emailed to there. It is the USER"s responsibility to keep that updated. As an ex sys admin at an ISP, I can tell you, frankly, I did not care if a user had his password updated or his email updated. That was his responsibility, I had much more important things to deal with such as RAID arrays saying "bez.. we're dying here" etc. Never send your password to an insecure account. Hotmail for example is a poor choice. It's in the past been easily cracked by cgi exploits or the whatnot. History only repeats itself.

In conclusion I will have these things to say. First some tips, then my feelings.

Tips for ensuring your account does not get 'hacked'.

1. Obviously, never share it. Even if he's your best friend. A mistake your best friend makes will get you in trouble. "But he accidently typed it in and i lost my stuff" Too bad, your responsibility, its just like driving a car. You let someone else drive, its your car, your still responsible.

2> Never leave your password laying around! Never store it on your desk or text files or anything like that. Makes it easy to remember that "hard to remember password", but makes it just as easy for your brother to log on as you and do something that opens a security hole large enough to drive a bus through. Or mother, or father, you never know. Maybe theyll reply to an email of yours, thinking its a legit friend, only to discover to YOUR horror that your at 0 deeds.
Even leaving it on the SGE can be a bad idea for security reasons. That option to remember the password is for your CONVENIENCE. Conveniences come at a cost. There is your cost.

3> Dont trust ANY programs from outside play.net. If it comes from withinside play.net, I'm SURE that Simutronics would be more than happy to reimburse any damages, to the best of their limited abilities. (keep in mind, this is the same codebase that is unable to display the who list in alphabetical order if it desired without a major overhaul. Arrays people. Arrays!)
Its very easy for someoen to download one of those silly virtualbasic kits and create a "trojan horse " or something. Its even possible to link the program with a legit binary. Example would be the BackOrifice trojan horse, written by the cult of the dead cow, a group im very close with. The silkrope program allows anyone to stuff that trojan horse inside a legit program, so while you see one thing, the program does another. Now I don't mean to scare people to not use programs that are out there. Just make sure they're from a trusted source. For example, I know Kranar posts a redux calculator he wrote I believe. I've used that, and frankly, im not cracked yet heh. (Nows yer chance ::cackles:

4> Change your password. Often. Most high security systems enforce a password change every month at least. Many require secureid keycards which change every second (or is it 10 seconds.. i forget.. only used it once).

5> If you are on a cable modem or a wireless connect (Even if you have a wireless lan).. be SURE to make sure you are enabled with a secure login. It may be a pain, and Im not sure if the SGE supports it, but Im sure the website does (and if it doesn't, it needs to). Countless cable modem nodes are still vulnerable to arp poisoning and other sniffing attacks. Anything you send plaintext, can be sniffed somewhere between point A and point B .. ususally by a laptop on point C inbetween A and B ::Whistles innocently:: .. What.. i didnt mention a repeater to my house (j/k). As for wireless lans, Many of the cheap brands purchased about a year ago or more, did not support encryption of the data being transferred over the airwaves. I still to this day, can plug my laptop in, give it some more juice than ususal (Actually the receiver). And pick up the occasional fun packet. (Requires scanning which is time consuming but still effective). Again, MAKE SURE ITS SECURE. Ya know those cell fone calls you can listen to on the radio, because theyre not digital.. Well.. wireless lans are almost the same way, they need something to protect them.

6> Keep your info on the GS site up to date at all times. Do not let it get out of hand. Do not FORGET something. Example: email address. I noticed my one account had an old email address. The mail server i used had deleted my account luckily. Even more luckily, my username is not popular, so it was not taken by the time I realized this. But if it was, my password would have been sent to what should have been me, but due to my own forgetfulness, was someone else. And... Gemstone isnt as smallscale as you think. I mention Gemstone III, someone eventually will know someone that plays it. So while that would be useless to me, a friend migth be interested in someones password.

Theres more, and Ill gladly answer any questions if you email me at bezerker@bezerker.org.

Onto my feelings on this.

Is it right? No. Is it fair? Definately not. Do I agree with Simu on 99.9% of their actions? of course not. Do I agree with them on this one? Maybe. Based on the facts ive seen, I would do what Simu has done. Whether or not the account was hacked cannot be blamed totally on Simu, its word of mouth vs word of supposed log. Knowing Simu's corruption, it may be all bullshit, and Zurrainn may be right. I don't know Zurrainn enough. I know Edgeleaf well, and I trust him probably more than anyone out there. But to me, the evidence provided to the general public, points that Simu is not to blame. His character was restored, luckily. However his items should be restored, at least some of it. The problem is, we all know GS is real life based now. Half of us make our livings off GS whether they admit to it or not. 18k worth of items, Yes , I'd be angry too and i'd demand answers. Whether it be legal or allowed by policy, those items were worth something, even if on a black market. And because of their worth, a FULL investigation should be initiated. What I disagree on is Daecir's way of handling Zurrainn or Tsin talking about the incident. The person feels surely taken advantage of. He in his mind believes that he was robbed of something. Whether hes right or wrong, he still believes it. As a paying customer who has obviously been here for awhile, I would expect that the staff has the courtesy to look into the matter correctly. And if you must, offer evidence to relieve his doubts. Daecir's comments did not help. They were snide, rude, and the attitude was not fit for customer service. Some people are not meant to handle customer service, They handle some aspects of it great and others horribly. (Take me for example.. Customer kept bugging me, "Hrm, wonder what happens if I pull this plug" "Bez is the box for (insert client here) down?" "Yes it was down for a minute." "Why" "It just stopped."). And this is not always a good thing. While some customers need to learn to just Accept it, Understand it, Move on. There are times when they feel cheated. One such case is currently happening. And as someone who worked at an ISP, I must say Simutronics, this isn't healthy. Fortunately many of your customers are simple computer users. But there are nutjobs out there which would take revenge on your company as best as they could try. Most network attacks come from frustrated endusers. Point of this all. Be careful. Everyone. Both Simu and End user. I hate hearing these horror stories of security breaches !
In conclusion.....
ENOUGH!

-Bez

[This message has been edited by bezerker (edited 11-18-2001).] reg

Second. They returned some of Speakers items. Even confiscated others. They just cold turkey for no real reason said. Be happy. Why not at least return the confiscated items? Even recreate the others? I will tell you why, in my mind why they didn't. Some of Speaker's items was on a cash only list. Whether he paid cash or traded items for them is his business. But I believe they didn't return all his items because of that reason. That is wrong.

Thirdly. Blades goes demonic. Has a going away party. Then later we see him fully restored. Then a few people was pissed off because he has redux now because he got to reallocate. I don't know if that is the truth. But several people seen him take hits and one friend said he told him. But, after the GSLawyer ordeal. Well, you make up your mind.

edge reg

How completely bogus for him to make such a big damn deal that he's leaving, and then everyone in the game see him go demonic - only to reappear later is bogus.

Either make going demonic permanent for everyone (except for those where its clear they've been hacked), or at the very least, put in the CORRECT information in the official rules.

Something at the beginning of the Official Rules along the lines of:
"These are general rules - GMs may at anytime elect to waive or impose new rules depending on their mood - and whether or not the person in question is a good friend of theirs. If the person is a good friend of the GMs, the rules are not applicable." reg

Simu may prefer to mete out its own justice to the hacked and the hacker, but that does not change the fact that hacking is a crime.

For example, hacking a Gemstone account to steal another's possessions violates 18 U.S.C. 1030(a)(4), which provides that "Whoever knowingly and with intent to defraud, accesses a protected computer without authorization, or exceeds authorized access, and by means of such conduct furthers the intended fraud and obtains anything of value, unless the object of the fraud and the thing obtained consists only of the use of the computer and the value of such use is not more than $ 5,000 in any one-year period . . . shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section." Under subsection (c), the penalty for a first-time violation of 1030(a)(4) is "a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than five years."

Also, violations of 1030(a)(4) are accompanied by a mandatory minimum six months imprisonment. (This may no longer be the case. In the USA PATRIOT Act passed last month, Congress directed the Sentencing Commission to repeal all mandatory minimums for violations of 1030. However, the Sentencing Commission has not yet acted.)

In cases in which Simu can determine who the hacker is, law enforcement can quite likely do the same, provided it chooses to try. If the hacker is not a minor, jail time would be the likely result.

Gemexchange

reg

Whether or not they intend to enforce their own policies, and whether or not they care about pressing charges against hackers of THEIR accounts is irrelevant. They own them, they can do what they wish with them - or they can do nothing at all. It's their prerogative.

If, however, the hacker gets possession of your credit card account, you may, and should, certainly persue it. While the card itself is the property of the bank that issues it, the credit and funds available to you are most definitely yours.

Roberta
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Desharei:
Gemexchange, no subscriber to Gemstone can bring charges to a hacker of their Gemstone account, because they don't own the account. Simutronics owns it. And only the owner of said account can bring charges against an offender. The items your character owns are not your items. Your character is not your character. Your account is not your account. It is the sole property of Simutronics, as stated in several places in both Simu and Gemstone policies.

Whether or not they intend to enforce their own policies, and whether or not they care about pressing charges against hackers of THEIR accounts is irrelevant. They own them, they can do what they wish with them - or they can do nothing at all. It's their prerogative.

If, however, the hacker gets possession of your credit card account, you may, and should, certainly persue it. While the card itself is the property of the bank that issues it, the credit and funds available to you are most definitely yours.

Roberta

---

Actually this is incorrect. You have payed for a service that is denied to you because of a hackers activities. That is plain robbery. If you paid for a full month at whatever fee then you should be owed that amount of time or the money should be returned.

Hiway
reg

Nope. Your account is your contract between you and Simu, which gives you the right to access services provided by Simu. It is true that Simu reserves discretion to modify those services (including your character and your items), but it is still your account.

For example, if your web site or your account with your ISP gets hacked, you can still contact the FBI and ask them to press charges under 18 U.S.C. 1030, even though you don't own the computers that were hacked.

<< And only the owner of said account can bring charges against an offender. >>

Actually, the decision to bring criminal charges rests with the government, not victims of crimes. For example, many jurisdictions have policies of prosecuting domestic violence cases even if the victim does not want to press charges. If the government wants to press charges in a Gemstone hacking case, Simu must cooperate.

I would expect a Gemstone hacking investigation to go something like this: first, the victim would talk to the FBI. The FBI would then seek all relevant records from Simu using a subpoena or the appropriate court order under 18 U.S.C. 2703(d). These records would include the IP address used by the hacker when accessing the victim's account. If the hacker transferred items to his own account, the government would also receive account information pertaining to that account, including name and billing information. The government would determine the hacker's identity using this information and perhaps a subpoena on the hacker's ISP. This information would suffice to show probable cause to search the hacker's home and seize his computer, which would likely have incriminating evidence. A guilty plea would follow shortly.

Gemexchange

reg

I agree that the largest single obstacle to obtaining a conviction in Gemstone hacking cases is that the federal government may not deem such hacking to be of sufficient importance to merit investigation and prosecution.

However, it never hurts to ask. If you've been hacked, contact your local FBI field office (you can get the phone number at www.fbi.gov). Congress has recently allocated money for a bunch of new computer crimes federal prosecutors. Some of them may be happy to find more work.

Gemexchange
reg

Hiway reg

True. Small claims court is for civil rather than criminal proceedings, but one could potentially file a civil suit and then subpoena Simu to determine the identity of the hacker-defendant. My guess, however, is that such a suit would likely prove more expensive to maintain than it would be worth.

Gemstone hacking seems to me to be best handled through the criminal justice system. And given the likely interstate nature of the crime, I'd start with contacting the FBI to see if they were willing to investigate.

Gemexchange reg

The losing side pays court fee's.

Hiway reg

In August 1996, I spent 3 days in trial and $117,000 to beat a totally bogus lawsuit that was filed against me for $82,000.

In May 1999, I spent 4 days in trial and $47,000 to get a $15,000 judgment that was due me.

Good business? Heck no.

Was it worth it? Absolutely. Sometimes, you just have to do whats right. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Magister:
Court fees are usually a very small portion of the costs.

In August 1996, I spent 3 days in trial and $117,000 to beat a totally bogus lawsuit that was filed against me for $82,000.

In May 1999, I spent 4 days in trial and $47,000 to get a $15,000 judgment that was due me.

Good business? Heck no.

Was it worth it? Absolutely. Sometimes, you just have to do whats right.

---

I stand corrected. I intended to lump it all together. I should of used the term legal fees.

Hiway

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Magister:
Good business? Heck no.

Was it worth it? Absolutely. Sometimes, you just have to do whats right.

---

Hell yeah...

------------------
I got no dukes. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hiway:
I should of used the term legal fees.

---

It has been my personal experience that very, very rarely is a person in America able to recover their attorney fees if they win their case - even if there is a specific provision in writing in the agreement between the 2 parties that specifically says (in essence) "loser pays other guys attorney fees". Its just the way things are with our legal system.

A shame America can't follow the lead of most other modern nations that actually have such provisions as a matter of law - and then actually enforce them. It would do away with 90%+ of the frivolous lawsuits because attorneys would actually want to make sure they have a legitimate case. reg

It wouldn't ensure that the laywer has a legitimate case in anyway. The laywer would get paid regardless of whether he wins or loses. What it would do is cause for everyone to find the most expensive laywer they can get.

In a civil case the defendant shouldn't have to pay anymore of a fee than the damage he's accused of causing. If the defendant is infact responsible for some type of damage, the laywer would want to charge a maximum price for his service and could infact charge anything. That would completely screw the defendant over and isn't reasonable either.

The defendant should be held responsible in choosing and paying for his attorney, and the plaintiff should be held to those responsibilities as well.

<< A shame America can't follow the lead of most other modern nations that actually have such provisions as a matter of law >>

Such as?

- Lord Kranar, human Archwizard

[This message has been edited by LordKranar (edited 11-20-2001).] reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by LordKranar:
It wouldn't ensure that the laywer has a legitimate case in anyway. The laywer would get paid regardless of whether he wins or loses.

---

I disagree. If the attorney knew he was going to paid by the OTHER guy - he would ensure that its a viable case and that the person has deep enough pockets to pay their fees - and not one that is simply filed as harassment.

And, since the attorney is representing his client in the first place, he would obligated to tell his client that he's got a loser - and would make that client think twice before proceeding.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LordKranar:
What it would do is cause for everyone to find the most expensive laywer they can get.

---

This in itself would be a huge deterrent for bogus lawsuits.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LordKranar:
In a civil case the defendant shouldn't have to pay anymore of a fee than the damage he's accused of causing.

---

I don't know if you are arguing this from a moral, or a legal position.

Morally, I agree. However, in the current legal system, all too often money BEYOND what was requested is awarded regularly for punitive damages, pain/suffering, etc.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LordKranar:
If the defendant is infact responsible for some type of damage, the laywer would want to charge a maximum price for his service and could infact charge anything. That would completely screw the defendant over and isn't reasonable either.

---

There would of course be maximum hourly rates/caps, etc. BUT, this would make more people go to arbitration or settle their case rather than taking it to trial. A good thing in my eyes.

England, Australia and others (and I'm not even opposed to some of the "eye for an eye" concepts that are applicable in less developed countries) are a few of those that we could learn from.

I'm tired of people being inherently stupid, then filing a lawsuit - and that person/company settling because its cheaper to settle than it is to fight for whats right. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by bezerker:
Tell me edge, does that surprise you that much? :P. Blades is one of the gms favorites. Just like Armaxis. Or Setzier. If any of them did the same things, theyd be restored too. Favoritism, and typical other GS nonsense. Worth it... eh im still here.. barely... Gimme a month to get permabanned for posting that "simutronics is corrupt"

---

I have no clue about what they did with Blades, other than that he's bitched to me in whispers that he doesn't have redux yet. The guy still casts 425 and 430 along with I think up to at LEAST 118. Even someone Drizzsdt's level couldn't get much worthwhile redux with that many spells.

As for me, I -wish- it worked like that, I'd have several very cool weapons back that I lost in Cavernhold, not to mention a totally unique scripted item. Setzier? Ask him about his bayeaux shield in Anwyn. I'm a normal person like anyone else in the game, I just play by the rules. Favoritism may exist, but I sure haven't been seeing any of its benefits.

-- Phil, Armaxis' player reg