I don't know how the rest of you feel.
But I _do_ feel that certain differences of opinion on different policies is just ludicrous. How does a company get any better when all the rules are different for each person? It's never made sense to me.
reg
They have a VERY small player base compared to the other MMRPG's out there and the tens of thousands others that are on the way...(much cheaper too I might add)...All they have to do is hook one new person that believes in multi-accounting..every month or so.. and they are all still getting paid..
David Whatley is not a business major, this is a fact, he is a computer guy. I think their candle is burning down soon, but I've been saying that for a long time now..
It will be interesting to see what they do when that happens..
reg
Break me reg
quote:
Originally posted by Breaker:
I disagree. I consistantly see over 1000 people in the lands during week nights. I'm not sure, but I'd venture to say that this is no lower, if not higher than a year or two after GS moved to the web.
If I'm not mistaken, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am 
, but the number is lower. It used to be in the 1200's at least about a year or two ago.
The numbers are lowering and they should be concerned about that. Will it belly-up in the next year or so? I doubt it. But its days are numbered if they don't start getting their act together.
They need to HIRE and PAY GM's and coders on a full time basis. I certainly wouldn't have a problem paying what I pay now if I knew that dedicated people were working on the game. Right now we have people doing this on their spare time. When you come home after spending 8-10 hours at your own exhausting job then have to sit behind your computer at home to go through another 3-5 hours of game hassles, I wouldn't be too motivated to do anything. I'm amazed they do as much as they do. That still doesn't excuse the inconsistancies.
All in all, if a ball should be dropped, instead of them worrying about losing a paycheck, you'll hear "it's just a game" and can walk away. reg
Daytime nums are way down even. Peak maybe 1000 or a little over now.
Hiway reg
Sonic reg
I agree, its down.
Now, the # of unique account holders are *significantly* down because before the move to the web, to own more than one account required the most insane bank account. Now, its common to find people that have more than one account, and keep them all logged on at the same time. So the #s you are seeing, even if they are just a tad lower than before the move, are not accurate when it comes to how many people are still actually playing.
reg
Trust me guys, Simu ain't going anywhere. Like someone said earlier, they are drug dealers, and irregardless of how long some people can go without a fix, they'll come back eventually. I see simu outlasting verant, but that's just me.
-Revalos reg
Sonic reg
Simu, post AOL unlimited, pre GS4 (aka DR): 2300 prime time
GS, post DR: 2100 prime time
Move to the web: ~1900 prime time
Vvrael invasion story line: ~1900
post- first treasure change: 1700
post first wizard cloud spell change: 1500
(notice the trend)
over a year's time, in which games such as EQ, AC, adn the like were introduced: 1400
before GP: 1200
after GP: 1100
now: averages 1000
Number of multi accounters: I estimate 20% of the people in at the same time are zombies, so it's really 800 people in prime time....
Does Simu recognize the trend? Yes...
Do they admit to it? No... Online companies who have a dedicated amount of subscribers really don't need to rake in much cash to survive, and especially since most of Simu's staff is underpaid (I know... they're not paid at all!), they don't need much money to survive...
------------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie"....
until you can find a rock! reg
quote:
Originally posted by SirLoinOfBeef:
Simu, pre AOL unlimited: 750 people prime timeSimu, post AOL unlimited, pre GS4 (aka DR): 2300 prime time
GS, post DR: 2100 prime time
Move to the web: ~1900 prime time
Vvrael invasion story line: ~1900
post- first treasure change: 1700
post first wizard cloud spell change: 1500
(notice the trend)
over a year's time, in which games such as EQ, AC, adn the like were introduced: 1400
before GP: 1200
after GP: 1100
now: averages 1000
Number of multi accounters: I estimate 20% of the people in at the same time are zombies, so it's really 800 people in prime time....
Does Simu recognize the trend? Yes...
Do they admit to it? No... Online companies who have a dedicated amount of subscribers really don't need to rake in much cash to survive, and especially since most of Simu's staff is underpaid (I know... they're not paid at all!), they don't need much money to survive...
Beta-AOL to early 2 years AOL prime time: 300 
This was before the WizardFE and it crashed around 300 people.
reg
Add in the fact that Gemstone III compared to DR is broken fundamentally from the start. They rushed and taped some bandaids on a old ICE system by Rolemaster. All in the name of keeping the few current players they had happy.
What should of happened was a time out and to look carefully what would be viable long term. They knew it, just greed is a powerful motive.
DR is a good design, but too complicated for me for any long term play. Just too tedious to do hunting. Familiarity is also a powerful retention tool. People don't really like changes once they learn something.
Glad I found Dark Age of Camelot. It is so well designed that much of it is intuitive.
So in my opinion the numbers are down, due to competition, poor advertising, and attrition of longer termed subscribers due to various reasons (bored and move on, fed up, Simu's lack of care to keep long term customers).
I would even guess higher than 20 percent on the multi account area. That may even shrink more and result in less online when spells and the training required show that as little benefit. Not that I disagree with it, just a tad too late for my tastes. Even though their games have addiction and familiarity going for them sometimes that isn't enough to keep folks.
Hiway-and a good banning of your major character doesn't help either. Ha! reg
I always pictured DR as being in the future... a silver coin is worth 100 coppers there, and all GS currency is in silver, so in the past, it's logical to assume people were very rich... And the spells in GS are just super overpowered, magic is dampened in DR, but it's still a great game..
The only problem with DR, is it's tied in with SIMU... and if the GS staff hates you, you can be certain the DR staff would be laying in wait for you eventually... i really hate to pack up and leave there,with all that i've acquired, i've even gotten 4 roleplaying awards since they made a 'stored' RP system.. (no more 'I GOT AN RP! GOTTA HUNT!' stuff... turn em on when you want em)
And a short while ago, i got my first and only alteration, true, GM favoritism might exist over there, but they generally leave the normal player alone to his or her own devices.. I got my alteration at a place made for only my profession, since some of us were upset... Can you immagine that taking place in GS? <laughs>..
Warrior:Semidux makes redux worthless now!
(warrior only festival/merchant pops up)
Warrior:Well... this isn't what i want... but... it'll make me happy...
In DR, the people are overly spoiled, believe me, they complain about the smallest things, and sometimes i feel like slapping them and telling em to try GS, or to pray that they don't suddenly switch staff or something...
-goyle reg
And the crackdown on scripters there is nice, you script, you get yer ass chewed out, even if it's not your fault..
I had a 'rest' script going once, because i had some tanned skins i was letting cure, so i found a quiet place, hid, and just sat there... well, someone got onto me, and tried to pick my pockets a bunch of times, then reported me for scripting... (smells like a setup)
And i got warned for it, and logged in in a consultation lounge and stuff... But i explained my side of it, the GM understood, replaced the warning with a caution, and informed me about the 'sleep' feature, which keeps you from learning, even if they do do that (which cleaned that 'setup' scent out of the air)
Some people think scripting is their right, and they can get away with anything, I'd like to point out someone i really hated, a 98th <or something like that, way the hell up there> cleric, Slaughterangele, <lovely name too, eh?> who was warned again and again to not script, because basicly, that's how he worked... script to power, abuse power, walk around like god... well, he got permanently banned, and there was much rejoicing... (Plus his habbit of refering to everything he didn't like as 'gay' and anyone he didn't like as 'fag' was really REALLY annoying)
Scripting like that grew up in dragonrealms, i remember when i saw a high powered mage, Kruass, in gemstone, script-killing rats... It's just how the systems are set up.
GS is set up for multi account spellupping and 'hack n slash' attitudes
DR is set up for scripting and roleplaying, and realism also.. (when's the last time you bled internally in GS?)
If yer really, really sick of GS, give DR a try... the staff may have the same SIMUness to them, but for some reason, they just seem a lot nicer, and i can't recall any tales of corruption thus far, because it's not built around enchanted, self mana, super expensive stuff, there is no voln or COL, there are no super powers... It's a welcome vacation, just like GS is to them sometimes (needing xxx experience to level, instead of so much in this skill, so much in that skill)
-Urgoyle, remembering fondly... reg
All it would take at Simutronics is a little humility now and then.
Admit when something "sucks". Mythic does so in Dark Age of Camelot. Lot's of "my bad" over there and quick to take responsibility.
So many times I get the attitude from many staff at GS about too bad so sad. That is the design, real soon now, you should of trained in that, etc.
Plus the complete lack of acknowledgement of logic blows my mind when GM's cling to garbage. You will present to them a reasonable well thought out explanation about something and they will just ignore you.
Hiway reg
They don't make you feel like a customer, they make you feel like an addict.
Treat us nice, and we'll give you your fix. If not, then there's the door.
I just fall over each time someone says 'Well if you hate it that much, just leave!'.. ??!
I've heard so many challenges from the GMs saying that their customer service is incomparable to all the other games out there, and to test that statement. Well now I have, and I'm convinced that there are definate flaws in customer service at Simutronics.
I love feeling like I'm paying for an enjoyable product, and even though I'm one of THOUSANDS of players, they care if I'm having trouble in an area.
I love feeling like feedback matters, and not just the feedback from the staff.
I love feeling like I can be frank and honest about my feelings about a certian area without getting the old "We are just a business" or "We are just volunteers" "Stop picking on us" speech.
I love the feeling that a full-time PAID dedicated staff is working to make my measely ten dollars a month service the best it can be.
Anyway, those are the comparisons I've made in the three games other than Gemstone I've tried related to MMRPGs.
reg
quote:
Originally posted by Rhain:
I think I've boiled down my problem with Simutronics to this:They don't make you feel like a customer, they make you feel like an addict.
Treat us nice, and we'll give you your fix. If not, then there's the door.
Oh my gawd, Rhain. You hit the nail on the head SO hard so that it went straight through to the other side! That's EXACTLY how they make you feel.
What they fail to realize (or accept) is that there are lots of drug pushers out there with way better drugs, way better service, and less passing of the buck.
They are on a downward spiral and are going to be left with the snerts and the roleplayers will have taken their money elsewhere. Hell there are some MUD's that don't even cost anything and are more enjoyable. I'm just a crackhead and stay with the drugs that I'm used to. If I go to a better one right now, I may never recover. 
reg
<shrug>
I've never tried any of the other text-based or graphical MMORPGs out there, so I can't compare... but I think the customer service here is pretty good. reg
They actually heard me. They actually said it was a good idea and would use it. No email tag go here or go there and wait for years for an answer. Concrete tangible yes, no, and why.
I know people are going to moan when I say this, but frankly I thought SGM Kennesaw was very poor at customer service. He lacked a great deal of people skills with me and was quick to judge and assume.
He was the head of Customer Experience! Perhaps now that there is a shift in staff there will be some positive changes. I just saw way too much witch trials going on instead of kindness, education, consistency, and support.
Hiway reg
That has been my biggest disappointment with Simutronics customer service. Based on my experiences with them, they have NEVER admitted that they may have made a mistake, or apologized for an error that was clearly their fault.
My other disappointment is that it appears they have no interest in the concerns of the customers. I can understand not wanting to deal with irrational flaming, but it seems they don't want to hear ANY concerns, or complaints from their customers.
This "you don't like it, LEAVE!" attitude truly puzzles me.
Summer reg
quote:
Originally posted by Summerlyn:
This "you don't like it, LEAVE!" attitude truly puzzles me.
Yeah. That and the other attitude puzzles me too.
"SCREW YOU! IF YOU DON'T FIX THIS NOW, I'M LEAVING AND TAKING MY 10 ACCOUNTS WITH ME!!!"
...when nothing is really broken, just changed so it isn't as easy. Can anyone say GP and armor changes?
Both sides throw temper tantrums, just that staff is targetted more often when they throw one, which isn't to say they're right. We're the customers after all, but anyone imagine how annoying it must be to go through hundreds of posts and e-mails saying, "You suck!" per day for a volunteer job? It's gotta be discouraging, at the very least.
Bianca
[This message has been edited by Bianca (edited 12-12-2001).] reg
That's why I think it's important that staff look at each incident with a fair mind. Not everybody is trying to "scam" the system, not every customer is lying, not every customer is knowledgeable about bugs and what to look for. I think some staff have a "Guilty until proven innocent" mentality, and are way too quick to always think the worse of people.
Summer reg
Perhaps threatening to take our business elsewhere isn't the best route to take, but that's what occurs when you're told "this is the way it is, deal with it or leave".
The problem here is that we the customers are the reason they are here, whether the GMs are getting paid or not. As far as I'm aware (please correct me if I'm wrong) but Simu doesn't have corporate sponsors taking care of financial business for them. So forgive me if the majority of the people paying for the upkeep of the game want it changed for whatever reason.
I'm sure if they have a corporate sponsor and they didn't like how something was being done, they would make a big stink about them changing it or they would take their money elsewhere. I really don't see the difference...one dollar, a million dollars... we are still the investors in a sense. Word of mouth works everywhere.
If I leave and encourage nine of my friends to leave as well, that's over $3000 they will never see again. Yeah, peanuts for them I'm sure. But that's just me taking my nine friends and I don't even have that much pull in the Elanthian community. Let's see how someone with dozens of supports getting up and leaving will be responded with. It only takes a handful of really important people to make a huge hole in the Simu world.
They worry so much about bringing in new people, that they don't realize how pissing off the faithful players has made their game population suffer. But yeah, they're right. If we don't like it, we'll leave. I just want to get an email a month later begging me to come back for a year for free because they need the people.
Bah, I rambled.. sorry! reg
I think Simu could admit they're wrong a few times too, just not as many times as everyone would like to believe. Sometimes when somebody's wrong and they admit it, it becomes a situation where you sound like you have your foot in your mouth. I think that's what Simu tries to avoid half the time. It's not that GMs don't want to apologize, it's that they represent not just themselves but a company in whole. No company wants to give off the impression they've made a mistake, it destroys that whole mighty corperation conspiracy everyone's so happy to gossip about.
I don't think they're right all the time, I guess I'm just not as hard on people when they make mistakes.
Bianca reg
quote:
Originally posted by Bianca:
I don't think you rambled, you made some great points.I think Simu could admit they're wrong a few times too, just not as many times as everyone would like to believe. Sometimes when somebody's wrong and they admit it, it becomes a situation where you sound like you have your foot in your mouth. I think that's what Simu tries to avoid half the time. It's not that GMs don't want to apologize, it's that they represent not just themselves but a company in whole. No company wants to give off the impression they've made a mistake, it destroys that whole mighty corperation conspiracy everyone's so happy to gossip about.
I don't think they're right all the time, I guess I'm just not as hard on people when they make mistakes.
Bianca
I am not hard on folks when they admit to a mistake at all. Matter of fact I go that extra mile and go out of my way to help and be nice. I just can't stand when people ignore or cover up something. That irritates me to no end. Simu and NDA is one of the most abused excuse making statements I have heard. The policy of making it transparent when warnings are handed out also is severely flawed.
People learn from mistakes. Why should one individual have to make them and not be able to learn by others mistakes. Why can't staff instead of villifying people take the attitude of helping them?
I am just tired of the "we can't tell you that" bologne when they could tell all the customer base in general some trends and lessons learned so the community as a whole could move forward instead of regress. As it stands now I see big back steps and super slow movement forward when given the timeframe this game has been out we could be light years ahead of everyone else.
Hiway
reg
I believe that if Simutronics was perceived as someone that treated the players as customers, and was SEEMINGLY more open about ideas and suggestions, they wouldn't be getting the 'abuse' you say they do.
I have zero sympathy for GMs and the staff. Its not my JOB to be sympathetic to their egos or their lack of lives because they are busy coding 24 hours a day. Its my job to pay the company that supports them and it really isn't a JOB, its something someone should do for fun...
I think its ridiculous that Simu took down the Suggestions and Comments folder because it was just getting 'too heated', I think Melissa should take a step back and take a look at the WHOLE picture. The players are getting heated with the staff, why? Could it be that they perceive something that isn't true? Do we seem close door? Do we seem disgruntled? Do we seem like the FBI? Are we, in fact, treating our customers like addicts? Why do the players seem to get SO irrate about specific subjects regarding a game?
The problem lies within. Simutronics is a business, not a government.
reg
Why should we as customers paying money take into account what the management at Simutronics decides to do in pay for their staff or organizational structure? Why should we use that in forming some sort of sympathy or justification or excuse why things happen? We shouldn't. It is that plain.
It is very obvious you can get just as good or better games out there for the same money or I would go so far way less money.
I don't care that the majority of GM's are volunteer. I don't care if they work this or that hours on their own time. I don't choose that structure, their management does. It is BEYOND my control.
I know as a customer what I get for my dollar. I know what good business' do in trying to retain customers. I know that Simutronics and this genre of gaming is a bit skewed when considering the classical business customer relationship because of the power of addiction.
Just like the tobacco companies doing little for their customers in providing information it turned out in the end to truly bite their proverbial hind ends.
The fact is people pay 10 bucks a month to pay a text game at the very minimum which is directly in line with the competition of even more featured games out there. The fact is there are options to pay 30 a month for a type ahead line, bigger fantasy locker space, a house, and the offhand special merchant. I don't think it is worth that, but some do. I think a lot of people use the justification on how much they "used" to spend in the old days.
I am not even going to tackle Platinum. Gemstone is advertised as a roleplaying game. I can't even get past seeing red if the staff say if you want better roleplay come to Plat and pay more. Good solid policy should support it in both worlds.
People have a hard time seeing past simple facts when they throw in the mix sympathy for a poorly run company.
Hiway reg
Where ya think the term 'gemstoner' came from?....
::makes bubbly bong noises::
Too bad it's more fun to play diablo2 now, and it's free on top of it reg
I think I'd be a lot more tolerable of Simutronics if I were making bubbly bong noises 
reg
quote:
Originally posted by Rhain:
I think I'd be a lot more tolerable of Simutronics if I were making bubbly bong noises
If you were making bubbly bong noises, you'd be more tolerable, period.
Bianca
reg
quote:
Originally posted by Rhain:
<<Where ya think the term 'gemstoner' came from?....
::makes bubbly bong noises::>>
I think I'd be a lot more tolerable of Simutronics if I were making bubbly bong noises
I was tolerable of all of it... back when it was the coolest thing to get baked and 'chat' with all your friends, and go on adventures and stuff... back when it meant something... reg
Mike
Zanagan/Zarosa reg
quote:
Originally posted by Bianca:
If you were making bubbly bong noises, you'd be more tolerable, period.
Bianca
Do you feel better now for that comment? reg
I probably would be more tolerable...
reg
quote:
Originally posted by Rhain:I probably would be more tolerable... :)
I always wondered if the constant roleplaying of a drunk (like THAT's hard to do or inventive) was something that closely paralleled real life...
~ S.D. ~ reg
Sure! I drank like a fish when I played on the weekends, and I was always most entertaining when I was..as long as I wasn't disfunctionally drunk that I wasn't able to type...
I didn't choose to play a drunk, I was pegged as one when I first began, and used that as my 'nitch'...It actually worked out nicely for me, as most Empaths are labeled as such.
But I did have other characters with their own DISTINCTLY different personalities...and having a beer or two while playing them didn't automatically make them drunk characters..
reg
quote:
Originally posted by CrystalTears:
Do you feel better now for that comment?
No?
Certain drugs with the usage of a bong have always 'mellowed' people out, thus making them more tolerable to anything they usually wouldn't put up with. Unless you get into a bad batch.
Bianca, feeling just chipper! Thanks! reg