The Players Corner Archive

I kinda think they are going to die in the next 5 to 6 years. Here is why.

They have had so many people leave in anger or frustration due to various reasons. Poor customer service, corruption, changes to the game that made years of work obsolete. Just plainly not caring about the customers and other reasons.

Now one person leaves in anger. That means word of month amongst the internet junkies gets around. Now you got 100s of people saying bad things. Now it's most likely 1000s of people saying don't play this game. The company doesn't give a rats ass about anyone but themselves.

I know I love Gemstone and hate Simutronics as a business. I tell people all the time not to play. It's to hard to get anywhere in the game and you will most likely be frustrated.

Why don't you leave you say?

I have gotten rid of everything but myself. I stay around in hopes that something good will happen. But I just keep seeing negative changes.

There is to many quality games coming out to stay with a broken one that every day when I log on. I keep thinking. What have they screwed up today? Will my items all break I work hard getting? Will wizards be downtweaked again without warning? Will they decide a item I have is to powerful and downtweak it?

I find my only enjoyment is coming into the lands and visiting my friends.

How long will I ride a dead horse? I keep telling myself I will hold on till Simucon and if I keep thinking that Gemstone is no longer worth the effort to fight for. Then I will pack up and leave forever. This place is about enjoyment and that hasn't happened in a long time.

edge reg

There is a reason each and every one of us have (or has in the past), paid the fee required to play GS3, and that is the magic you can find in Elanthia (whether it is the people, the descriptions or the game itself). For some, the magic is gone, but to not allow others to experience that same magic, well…I’ll not beat that horse again.
reg

There are people that have been here since the beginning, or damn near close to it, many of them while still single and with the time to play.

Life moves on. You grow up, go to college, get married, have kids, and you have to adjust to those changes. Some people are able to continually fit GS into their lives, others can't. And since the game isn't changing fast enough, they realize it's not worth staying for. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's dead.

Now, refusing to allow other new people from trying the game because a long lived player is getting jaded is rather selfish thinking. I'm rather jaded with Diablo, but I'm not going to tell someone to not try it just because -I'm- through with it. For them it will be fresh and new and worth trying out for a year or two.

Yes I do realize that Gemstone is more than a game, but essentially, it's still a game you pay monthly to have access to. Most people stay for the friendships. If you truly want to leave, the friendships will remain and have that underlying link to each other, and will allow you to expand the friendship into something concrete. If you leave the game and they leave with it, then they weren't friends to begin with.

You know.. perhaps Simu, deep down inside, don't want people addicted to it for years and years and years because then they'll have to make changes to a game that really doesn't need it. You play it for what it's worth and leave when you don't enjoy it anymore, just like any other game. Perhaps they want a steady flux of incoming and outgoing people.

Leave if you don't like it, but don't deny others from having the fun you've had for years. That's just not fair. reg

I do agree with you partially on this one. Although Edge...you are a good friend of mine...you continually say that you are sad with the business yet you still haven't really left.

Hell I'm tired of it...I started an Inferno account. That got boring. Now I'm into DAoC...and it's incredible. I'm having as much fun as the first time I asked someone, "How do I swing at something?"

I think that Simu will last due to the amount of loyalty that they have. Yes...heavy hitters have left (Arathorn/Dart/Krackenstar/Kaikeyi/Jylli/Tedra/Burren/Berr/Meta/Sagan/Tenser/Cerulean, the list goes on and on...). Although we still have a small base of players that have been loyal to Simu for quite sometime. Several AOL'ers that are very very old...still hold their AOL accounts with pride. It's something that I hope Simu is proud of.

Whenever you do things in life...integrity and loyalty go a long way Integrity in this case might be questionable to some...but loyalty isn't. reg

The truth is.

Newbies get picked on and abused.

The treasure system is so messed up that nobody can earn wealth without buying it for cash or being givin it.

They will not fix the problems that exist already and keep creating new ones.

Bottom line. They have the worst customer service I have ever dealt with in my life. The way they treat people can only happen online. I thought dealing with the utility companies or the IRS was a hassle till I seen Simutronics in action.

I am NOT being selfish when I tell them the truth.

They ask me. Why do I put up with it? I put in going on 7 years, hours upon hours of time in the lands building what I have.

I mean seriously. How is being truthful being selfish?

When it really got to me the most was when.... 2 of the biggest merchants in the game are now GMs.

I thought they was going to try and actually get rid of the custom made items for cash. But they are still being pumped into the lands.

edge

reg

You can warn them with the truth, but you can add "it's still a good game.. give it a try.. it's still fun, just not like how it used to be."

And I will still never understand how going to a graphic game is going to solve your gaming problem. The roleplaying is nowhere near like any text or tabletop game because it ceases to let you use your imagination. You have to play with what you're given.

You can tell your friends all the warnings you want for their benefit. But to deny them the fun that you're having because you're jaded with the business IS being selfish in my opinion. You're not sharing the fun you're getting, regardless of how "horrible" the company is. But I'm just babbling. ::grins:: reg

DAoC has more RPing them Gemstone does.

UO you can join RP guilds. Be a Orc and guard the Orc fort and so on.

Can't say that RPing isn't out there. It is.

As I said and will say again.

I like Gemstone but hate Simutronics.

I will not send people to a game with as many problems as Gemstone has. Absolutely will not.

Now. I am glad you think that Gemstone is not dead. But that is my feelings and many people think the same thing.

I am not the only one that thinks it. But bottom line. We stay in hopes it will get better. Been this way for a couple years now and people are getting tired of waiting and hoping they will fix the problems that exist instead of creating more problems.

How many times do you have to get screwed before the game makes you upset?

How would like to have a 140m charging crystal then the next day its worthless?

How would you like to spend everything you saved in the game on a item you dreamed about to get it changed the next day?

How would you have liked to triple train in spells and sacrifice lots of things to wake up one day and you are not Viable?

How would you like to train as a magic rogue for years to wake up and can't hunt because of armor changes?

How would you like to have bought a self charging item then they change it to limited uses?

How would you like to purchase a scroll combiner that showed you how many charges in numbers then you wake up a week later to it not being able to read charges anymore?

How would you like to have tons if items tempered and then wake up and can't cast a single 1x enchant you already have tempered?

How would you like to wake up and having everything stolen from your account and they tell you to get bent?

How do you like to see people restored that went demonic on purpose? (Blades) But they will not do it for you? (Jesh)

How do you like to see a person getting customed made items and you have to bust your ass for what you got?

edge reg

To stay and try to discourage the ones that are here and enjoy it?

To ward off the new people that start?

To have a place to scream and cry about how unfair everything is?

I know how frustrating and hurtful it is to be commited to a product that never lives up to everyone's expections, or see things fall through the cracks. But when that happens to me, I leave.

If my favorite restaurant starts serving crappy food from one day to the next (which has happened) I'm not going back, regardless of how well I knew the owner, how much of a discount I was getting, or how I always had my usual table when I walked in.

I don't see why I have to sacrifice my happiness and satisfaction for a business that is in the business for them, not the customers. Let them hang themselves. But if I keep on eating there, then they'll figure everything is still fine regardless of the changes. I will not let them get that impression.

The people I know that have left the game never gave me reasons of leaving because of mechanics or things changing in the game. It was because life was changing, or because the people's attitude was changing. I too have taken vacations from the game because I grew tired of the people whining and complaining about how they couldn't stand the game anymore. And I would want to yell, "Well then go! Leave! Find another place that you don't hate so much and let us have fun!"

When I hear this kind of talk, regardless of how right they are, remind of people you invite to stay in your home and who do nothing but complain and don't contribute. I'm not saying you edge are like this. Just people who don't seem happy with what they have.

I just play for the fun of it. When it stops being fun, I'll stop playing. I won't be a martyr for any game. None of them are worth it. reg

I don't spend hours upon hours at a restaurant doing the things I do in Gemstone.

I got friends and family here. It has taken me 6 years to get to level 120. Glad you can give up something that easy. I can't.

Better analogy for you though. You buy a car and restore it. Spend hours upon hours getting it into cherry condition. Opps! Engine blows on my hobby\toy. Do you just throw it away? Nae, you fix it. Oops! Flat tire oh wait. That pissed me off. Do I throw it away now? Fix it. You do give up on it when it's so rotted that your feet keeps going through the floor boards because it wasn't never undercoated. You do keep it for a while longer hoping it can be fixed. You just don't want to lose the toy that at one time brought you so much joy. But alas! Just like cancer. You may not be able to fix it.

Hope that is more understandable for you. Many people feel the same way as I do. I been convincing Omnirus not to leave. I just don't tell people to come to the lands and start fresh.

This is the Gemstone Concerns folder. I don't Mod this section because I hate Gemstone. I do it to try and get somethings changed. But for some reason closed minds will never become opened.

edge reg

So what if the 200 million super uber powerful altered vorpal blade of doom with the kewl scripts doesn't work tomorrow? It isn't like I paid cash for the thing, it isn't like it's a real thing that is sitting on my desk in my office at home. It's a piece of text that I had my character purchase, while roleplaying, in order to further my roleplaying enjoyment. If it doesn't work, whatever. I'll roleplay my disgust in shoddy workmanship and move on.

As for triple trainers being unviable, no one ever ordered anyone to train one way or another. In fact, for sorcery, there was a very long-lived phase of triple training, even while Aephir stated point blank he was tweaking things left and right because of the "Greentide Effect." You didn't listen 5 years ago, sucks to be you. Not that your unviable anyway, you can still kill things, you can still roleplay, you can still buy and sell stuff, you can still cast spells. There is nothing a triple trainer can't do today that he couldn't do 5 years ago, except maybe overhunt by 20 levels like he used to. Gee, ain't that a shame ::shrugs:: That triple trainer should remember that a) there is a level cap now so maybe being in such a rush to advance isn't a good thing anymore, and b) he can still get experience by UNDERhunting 9 levels down.

Things your character buys in the game doesn't equate to roleplaying. Mechanics doesn't equate to roleplaying. Things doesn't equate to viability.

My bardess wasn't viable from the day I rolled her up. And I loved almost every single moment I played her for the 3 years I did. She wouldn't have made it past level 20, I stopped playing her at 17 because I quit the account completely with all the characters on it. Most bard spells weren't even implemented when I left, and Courtine couldn't have been happier the way things were at the time. She had Fluffy, she had friends, she sang silly songs, she told funny stories. And I had a blast, even though she was unviable. Even though I knew she'd be unviable when I made her.

If you're not getting that from a roleplaying game, then you shouldn't be playing that roleplaying game. If that's not what you want from your game playing, then you shouldn't be playing a roleplaying game in the first place.

Oh - don't try Inferno. They have breakage. And no one has a problem with it. It works great, keeps the smiths busy.

R
reg

But since my rationalizing of saying to not get so personal about a game means that I am closed minded, as opposed to someone who only wants to see the negative view and close off to the positive, then I have nothing more to add.

Want another bad analogy? I've been playing The Sims since it came out. I had three neighborhoods of families, had the three expansions installed, had lots of progression with all of them. That's at least two years of work with hundreds of hours put into them. I get the last expansion set. Without knowing why, it crashes my hard drive. I had to reformat. All my infomation was gone. Damn, all that work, gone in a blink of an eye. Did I get mad? Sure! Did I throw the games in the garbage and refuse to try again? Nope. I reinstalled them and started all over. I invested all that time. Maybe I should just scream and cry at Maxis for making a game that was too much for my computer to handle. Hell, I sunk alot of time into that game.. I deserve for them to compensate me.

You put alot of time and effort into a compuuter game.. a coded game that you have no control over. I think you're making a risk with what happens in that game everytime you log in. At any moment, they can say "we don't want to do this anymore" and disappear as a company. What do you do then? Complain to who? All those years wasted.

Oh well. I never meant to get into a heated argument over the ongoing issue of "Simu is making me unhappy". Continue playing a game for a company you hate. It makes no sense to me. My bad for trying to help you see another view.

[This message has been edited by CrystalTears (edited 12-29-2001).] reg

For some people...the words they see on the screen actually mean life vs. death IRL. It's very sad but that's what it boils down to. We were all in that position at one time...you have to agree. I remember being pissed off whenever I didn't get an alteration...or didn't get what I wanted...or simply was pissed off when someone ripped me off. Now it's a bit different. reg

I think we all agree there needs to be continual change for the game to grow, but they take it to the extreme. Then they the look at you with a smile on their face and tell you tough, should have thought of that years ago. Hmm...what about Simu thinking of some things ahead of time for a change?

I don't seek the aid of a GM very often, only a handful of times in the years that I have been here. In nearly every case their attitudes, to put it simply, sucked. They don't have to agree with me and they don't have to like me, but they should have an open mind and at least listen to what I have to say. I think the hosts do a much better job of this, maybe the GMs should learn from their example.

Drevn
reg

I guess maybe the difference between the group that seems bitter and the group that doesn't, is that the latter group gets over it. It's not our game, it's Simu's game. It bothered me no end when DC's TD-lowering effect was removed on critters, and then only some of the critters were tweaked to accommodate that. But I got over it and eventually realized I could hunt just fine using DC with the changes. I just couldn't hunt certain creatures with that spell, and had to find a different spell to use.

I ended up glad the changes were made, because it forced me to use so many more of my sorcery spells that I would never have thought to use. It gave more depth to my character's skills.

It also forced me to hunt certain areas with a bladeswinger, which benefitted the bladeswinger as well.

No demonic summoning? Still? Oh well, it didn't exist when I started playing, so it isn't like I'm missing out on something. Nothing has been taken away on that end so there's no point in being bitter about it. I don't "like" the fact that after all these years it still doesn't exist, but it just isn't worth the energy it takes to gripe about it.

My 6.5x stiletto is gone? Ain't no thang, I'll e-blade an iron one. Does what I need it to do, and the drop in defenses "ain't all that." No 5x wall shield? ::shrugs:: Imflass is cheap. Besides I hardly ever used the thing since I've always prefered to hunt open handed. For my character, using *any* shield would be a bonus.

What's this? My 3x crit-padded casting leathers are irreparably damaged? No biggie, I'll wear un-enchanted full til I can find a reasonably priced enchanter to make me a set of 4x full. Never noticed the difference in the padding so I won't be missing anything there.

Now you put all of these "losses" together, and what happens to Bestatte? She hunts down by around 8 levels, advances slower, spends more time with people roleplaying to ease the boredom, probably makes a ton more cash than she did nickling and diming like-levelled critters to death, and continues to be perfectly viable.

Why did *I* leave the game, if I have no problems with GS? Because I had problems with the quality of roleplay - or lack thereof. I don't give a hoot if one day one of my spells ceases to exist. Wouldn't bother me a bit if my altered cloak that I stood in line for 6 hours for suddenly tore apart because it was too full of junk. No, the issue for me, was that I had to trip over zombie-robot afk scripters "sleeping" while standing in the middle of a populated area on the way to find someone to roleplay with.

I got tired of that sort of thing, it ruined my enjoyment of what I consider to be roleplaying, and when their staff decreed that it wasn't against the rules to be inactive and inattentive, I called it a day and left.

R
reg

You can't just give up your level 120 character, you say? What will you do when Simutronics eventually has so little business they decide to shut Gemstone down? Or move on to work on different projects?

I'm not asking you to lie to your friends to get them to try it. Last I heard, Simutronics offers a free monthly trial. It's not a perfect game by any means, but you could definitely say it's a good game, a game you've played for 6 years. Let them try that free monthly trial. Maybe they're the kind of people the lands need in your eyes, the people who aren't the "snerts", or who won't pick on newbies. And maybe, just maybe, they'll like it. They won't remember a time when there wasn't breakage, or when the treasure system wasn't "empty" of treasure. Let them try it, and maybe they'll encourage others to join...

Maybe it's just what the game needs.

------------------
I'm crushing your head--Streven. reg

I keep quoting it because having characters and items in Gemstone is not an investment. It was just years of having a good time doing something.

When you began, you were never going to walk away with anything except memories and stories to tell. When your character reaches the cap, it will continue to be text. It's not going to became a tangible real person that you can take out to a ren faire and show off as your creation in real life. It started out and it will continue to be code in a gaming system.

So yes, after many years of playing Gemstone I could get up and say, "Well that was a fun x years of playing. It's time for me to do something else." I just don't because I like playing it still from time to time. I like having the option of logging in and playing my characters whenever I want. I don't play as often, and that's merely because my life has taken changes that prevent me from doing so, and that's perfectly fine with me.

If Simu closes down tomorrow, all you'll get from me is, "Aw, that's a shame... I'll try this other game." I never said to not be unhappy about the changes and to want to see good ones come about. I'm just saying that it's not worth the trauma. reg

It's a good analogy. Do you listen to yourself sometimes? It's something you worked long and hard to acheive. Whether it's tangible or not. It applies to the situation. You are so deadset on opposing me you are making absolutely no sense. But as I said before. Closed minds will never be open.

Don't put the fork in the light socket! ZAP!

Streven. As long as the game is the way it is. I can't send friends to it. I would recommend any other game I have played. UO and even Inferno to people. After all the fights with staff and company. I just will not recommend it to anyone.

I came to these boards to try and make a change. I get out of hand like everyone else does and start bashing. That is out of frustration. But I just wish something would make them actually think of the players for a change. Until then. I will not send a single person to use their products.

If I was hateful like people try and portray me. I would have made a Anti-Gemstone site.

edge reg

I won’t deny there are problems in GS3, but there is still a lot of good and fun to be had in the lands. You never know, those things which upset you about the game, may not have any affect on those new players.
reg

The problem is. The game is broken. They bandaid some. Ignor others and worst of all......Create more problems.

Why don't they fix what is broken first?

They ignor what the majority wants. Why would I reccommend a game that could care less about the customers?

edge reg

Well I agree with Edge...

Look at it this way, some say doing drugs is fun..but it can kill you. Would you recommend drugs to your friends? Would you rather 'they experience it for themselves?'..Probably not.

Okay, take that theory and tune it down a few notches...

Simutronics is a worthless business, composed of incompetent boobs that haven't taken one class on customer service, let alone business 101. They are driven by greed, and the master of greed - David Whatley.

I've seen people leave that company in complete outrage at the lack of brains and the impulsive pea-sized ideas spouting from the 'team'.

Does this MAKE THE GAME LESS ADDICTIVE?

uh no.

Does this affect your friendships that you have made inside of this internet connection?

no.

Simutronics doesn't care about you, they care about your pocketbook.. WHY IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, would I recommend this to anyone I consider a friend?

I have a few enemies I'd like to lay this on though

I did finally cancel my account, and now my husband and I are engrossed in DAOC...that magic is back!

I never thought I'd be able to compare a graphical game to Gemstone, but I have to say...this takes the cake.

Gemstone is on its last legs, there is no way it will survive this competition, I'd give it less than five years.

The Hard Way.

reg

Maybe Gemstone won't have the magnitude of subscibers like it once did, but it will certainly never fade away.

And incidently, if the drugs are REALLY good, I'm pretty sure you'd share them with at least one consenting friend, even though you can't stand the pusher. reg

I haven't cancelled yet, but it can't be far off.

The GS BBS used to hold me to the game -- But that's even grown old. Same arguments, same people, nothing changes. Egos abound there too.

"What? You've played how long? And this means what exactly...?"

Leslie

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Smell that shoe! reg

No, it will die off because it won't be a money maker, and Simutronics is a business and not in it for the enjoyment of the consumer...So when subscriptions start cutting the red sports car payment a bit short, you'll start seeing the dead end.

And I'd bet on that.

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by That Damn Katt:
I agree with Rhain 100%.

I haven't cancelled yet, but it can't be far off.

The GS BBS used to hold me to the game -- But that's even grown old. Same arguments, same people, nothing changes. Egos abound there too.

"What? You've played how long? And this means what exactly...?"

Leslie

---

That's exactly it Leslie.

It means what exactly? The people of old are no longer gods to us...they're all gone.

Which of the legends on the cups in the legends bar are still around?

Kodos - Nope

Thalior - Nope

Strom - Nope

Artuero - Saw'm a few months ago

Meta - Nope

Oghier - Nope

Trachten - Nope

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Omnirus:
That's exactly it Leslie.

It means what exactly? The people of old are no longer gods to us...they're all gone.

Which of the legends on the cups in the legends bar are still around?

Kodos - Nope

Thalior - Nope

Strom - Nope

Artuero - Saw'm a few months ago

Meta - Nope

Oghier - Nope

Trachten - Nope

---

The question isn't really how many of them are still around. The question is how many people know of their legends.

Most legendary people become legendary after they've died. (Not all - please don't misread or twist my words!) A legend is something that happened. Past tense. It is also someone who did something "legendary." Past tense.

The people may not be around anymore, but are their legends? The stories about these characters? Are they still told? If not, then you're right, they're gone. Might as well put those cups in storage.

It used to be the proudest moment in a Sorcerer's life in Elanthia, to go into the bar and drink the black cup. Last time I was in there on a busy night, I saw three "new legends" walk in, sit down, and pop boxes.

That right there is the telling clue. The magic is over.

R
reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rhain:
<<<It's not going to die away because not everyone who roleplayes like graphic games>>>

No, it will die off because it won't be a money maker, and Simutronics is a business and not in it for the enjoyment of the consumer...So when subscriptions start cutting the red sports car payment a bit short, you'll start seeing the dead end.

And I'd bet on that.

---

And how do you know the game is no longer profitable? Considering you most likely do not have access to the financial information, I doubt your assumptions hold any weight in the matter.

Simutronics is in the business for providing entertainment to the customer. It does not matter to me how they do it but for the most part, I believe they do a great job at it.

Most of the complaints I read on the official boards and here are the frustration of customers who think they should have the right to tell Simutronics how to run the game and why they are not satisfied with the game no longer. I believe if the players stopped trying to run Simutronics business, I bet there would be a lot more content players out there.

Also, to read observations from other players that since the number of players is on a decline to what it used to be and is a validate reason why the game is dead is nonsense. Every industry including the entertainment industry goes through cycles. Players come and go and not everyone will play the same game for a great extent of time because we are all human and like change.

I can use myself in this example. I have cancelled my account recently and gone over to Inferno. It was not because I hated Gemstone or anything but only that I was burned out on the game and wanted a new change. Inferno for the most part has given me that but in the same respect I will most likely be coming back to Gemstone sometime before my six months are up to reopen my account to see what is new and to do some of those things I enjoyed in Gemstone.

If Gemstone was a dying game, you would not be seeing some of the changes going into the game that has been happening over the last year or two. I can guarantee you, breakage would not be considered. Breakage in itself tells me Simutronics has the desire to have the game around in the future. reg

<<Most of the complaints I read on the official boards and here are the frustration of customers who think they should have the right to tell Simutronics how to run the game and why they are not satisfied with the game no longer. >>>

I believe I'm speaking for a majority of the readers here when I say...

What?

reg

Think about what you said. Do you remember how many people left just when the numbers was shown? Do you know how many are preparing to leave now?

Most of the people havn't seen breakage. last time we seen it was 94? You give them everything for so long then take it away. Go figure.

But if you look at the grand design of it all. Say 2000 people leave in anger at breakage. That is 2000 bad references for this game\company. Plus being on the net, word gets around fast. Nobody ever says that Simutronics is a good company unless they are working for them or getting something out of it seems.

Think about it. Why would you recommend anyone to a company that would take a dump on you at any moment? That can't control it's own staff? That has no want to satisfy the customer? How many times do you have to get bent over and no thank you? Oh wait! Only democrates say thank you after that.

But until things change for the better. I will not tell my friends to come here. To many companies that want happy players.

edge

reg

I have never run into any of the so called poor customer service situations anyone has spoke of on these boards. The times I had found items to be wrong or incorrect, the GMs have fixed the items very quickly.

Businesses do make mistakes and Simutronics is not perfect by any means but I do not believe the business is as corrupt as what has been portrayed.

As to the reason why breakage is going to be released, the GMs have stated the reason very clearly and frankly it makes sense.

1. Improve game economy
2. Introduce attrition to provide the opportunity for other players to have chance of getting a nice item for a reasonable price.
3. To many items in game right now which is most likely consume more system resources than desired.

I doubt 2000 players will leave the game when breakge is released. Everytime I read this comment or anything close to it, I think of spoiled children who are making threats because they are not getting their way.

Gemstone is Simutronics product and as I have noticed over the last four or five years I have played the game, they will continue to make changes to the game as they see fit whether it was in the best interest of the customer or not. To me, I like that because there are times customer make suggests of how to change the game only out of their best interest. When the company makes changes, I believe for the most part the change is made out of no bias at all. reg

FYI, this isn't how you run a profitable business.

Regardless,

I'm so overjoyed that you have had such wonderful experiences with the staff of Simutronics.

If you have been playing for one day or ten years, your enjoyment is something a business that wants to succeed will focus on. Not by solely relying on your addictive nature..Simutronics *isnt* perfect, everyone can agree on that one. They are dropping the ball in so many places I can't even count them.

I tell ya Mallagra, without customers that aren't able to see the whole picture, like yourself, they would've been out of business a long time ago.

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rhain:

I tell ya Mallagra, without customers that aren't able to see the whole picture, like yourself, they would've been out of business a long time ago.

---

Or maybe I don't let what Simutronics does get to me.

If Simutronics is here tomorrow or not, it does not matter to me.

reg

Spoken like a true Gemstone basher.

reg

Hmm.

Guess I'm a myopic dolt. :P

Rhain, you know I'm fond of you, but what is that "larger picture" you're referring to? If by the "larger picture" you mean that I'm largely ignorant of office politics or Simu's corporate machinations, that's by choice. With all that life has to offer, why in the pales would any PLAYER... who's presumably accessing the game as a form of stress relief... give a tinker's damn about whatever soap opera is taking place within the company at any given time? I can certainly understand those matters being important for those who actually work under the Simu umbrella, but I'm eternally mystified by the extent to which players become fixated on this subject.

The bottom line is that NO game can satisfy on the level that some players seem to want over an extended period of time. Is it realistic to expect that the game can provide you with the some "magical" experience you enjoyed in your earlier years? Frankly, no. That doesn't mean I'm blind to the faults of the game or haven't disagreed profoundly with some of the changes but, again, most of what I originally found charming about the game is still there if you look for it. I don't play as often as I once did, but that's due to a variety of factors -- familiarity, RL time concerns, etc.

It's not the same game it once was, to be sure. But I'm also not the same person I was when I first logged on. In all honesty, when I see folks getting worked up into a serious lather... to the point where Simu becomes some demonic entity intent on sabotaging our very way of life... I can't relate. The anger seems disproportionate. Heck, I've met great friends playing Gemstone -- friends I hope to keep for life. The game's worth every penny I paid for that alone -- and I can STILL have fun in there on any given night.

Having said that, I'm glad you're enjoying Dark Age of Camelot. A little bit of that "brave new world" stuff is always good for the soul.

Ashemu's player
reg

reg

Those damn pintos blow up when hit in the arse. I don't beleive it!....BOOM!

I stay around because I think there is going to be a recall to say. I also stay around because of the wealth and time I put in. But if you have read. I have parted with my 123 rogue and my 109 cleric. Just me left and I will leave after all my wealth is gone. Maybe I stick around because of the word...HOPE. But it gets less and less every day.

You will have to smoke crack or be a totaly ignorant person if you think these lands are run perfect. I said that harsh because of personal experience.

Most recent experience. A account is closed since March 5, 2001. But yet they was still charging the CC and said it wasn't being charged. Go figure. Plus, they are trying to say they don't give refunds when they stole the money. Hmm. Stealing it taking without permission? This was only my imagination. Simutronics don't make mistakes like this!

Next you will tell me nobody ever sells drugs to school kids.

You really think with all the quality companies coming out that a broken game is going to hold peoples attention? Get real. I can add 2 + 2 = 4. Not these 2 + 2 = 10 crap everyone is trying to say. Since you are supporter. Are you staff? Mentors are staff sorry to say. Did you have to earn everything? Or did a friend baby you through and give you wealth?

I mean. I see these people trying to support Simutronics running of prime gemstone. You can't make it without help or being staff if you start over with the treasure system.

Accounts are NOT growing. Sorry to say. Plat was a FLOP. Plat was a worse FLOP with the lowering of the price.

Now who's decision was this all? Melissa's I believe. You can target her for all the things bad in the lands. She has total control and has run it into the ground I think.

She is reponsible for making sure GM's are not corrupt. But items are still being made. She is responsible for breakage. She has the final say. She is responsible for people requesting to have their lockouts reveiwed. Which she ignors. Ask Summer. She is responsible for GP and everything thing else.

She doesn't return emails except when Sayrena said the Whatley site was Scint's\sleazy and the Player's Corner making. Which it was really Whatley's site. She has never responded to a single email I sent her. Which her boss gave me to write to.

I am going to leave if nothing changes by Simucon. When I leave. I will burn the bridges with every dirty detail I got.

But until then. I will post and try and get their attention until I loss all HOPE in the lands. I am sorry people are so closed minded they can't see the horse is dead or in it's death throes.

But hey! Some people are legally blind!

edge

reg

Hate to burst your bubble but I'm quite sure B&N is someone from my peanut gallery...I tend to attract one liners..

And Ashemu, dear old pal...

When I say 'larger picture', its something like saying : "I like drinking Coca-Cola, but can you believe they employ six-year old Cambodian children to run their business? What is this new flavor they have, gumdrops?? Who is going to like that! They are asking to go out of business!!! I'm so glad I found Pepsi, run by mature 80 year old cigar snuffing men that like their rum like they like their women, golden."

And Coca-Cola will survive why? Because Ash "Still likes Coca-Cola, who cares how they get the product into my veins, its not MY kids they are slave driving"

So yes, I care what goes on in the company because I believe it ultimately affects me, and my friends and the game that I used to love. Its frustrating watching something you care about deeply run right off the edge of a peir with a pea brained product manager at the wheel...

I also care because I am intimately aware of the insides of that company, maybe if I didn't know ANYONE that runs this game it would be different...Maybe? I dunno.

Anyway, hope that cleared up my perspective for you

reg

To me it doesn't matter what the company does. If the company believes, Rogues should be raising the dead instead of clerics then so be it. It may not make sense but if the company believes that is the direction they want the game to go, then that is what will happen.

I can guarantee you, I would not be happy with the decision but then again I would vote with my dollars as any of you should right now.
reg

The thing is that the people who don't really care that strongly about the changes is because we take it as it comes because it's not for us to say how they conduct their business, bad or good. I just don't let it affect me to the point of such rage and bitterness.

Was I happy about the lockpicking changes? Hell no. I think it's ludicrous that you have to triple to get your own aged boxes. I always felt doubling was letting you be proficient and tripling meant you were a master and could pick far beyond the norm. So much for that!

Do I feel that my voice along with the other yellers is going to make a difference in how they make changes? I don't believe so. They did what they wanted anyway. So I took a break from my rogue and played other characters. Damned if I'm going to let that affect my fun.

Look at the titles. They added legendary. Everyone was up in arms about how horrible that idea was. They asked for input and alternate titles. Months of asking people to write in with their ideas and votes. News items in the game asking to email their votes. Then they come up with great lord/lady and high lord/lady. People are STILL angry with this change. You can never please everyone all the time. We can't even see the emails and votes ourselves and see if that's what the people who wrote in wanted, or if they saw some, and took it upon themselves to make that change. Again, it was in their hands because it's their game.

I've invested years in this game too, but only as long as I'm having fun. I don't allow myself to get involved with mechanics if I can possibly help it, I don't hang with the "popular" crowd in the game, I don't know who knows what GMs, who works with who, who plays who, and any other political hogwash. What happens behind the scenes in the company does not interest me. Just the game. What reason the company put the game together is no concern of mine. I just play to have fun and roleplay. When that's no longer fun, I move along.

Like someone else said, we're not the same people that logged in that very first time. Life changes, people change, views change, game changes and you just have to move with it. I've been playing through two relationships, living in two different states and worked through gods know how many jobs. In essence, it was my gaming escape from my hectic world. When the escape world becomes more stressful and worrysome than my own life, time to unplug.

I know this game means the world to many people, but it doesn't to me and many others like me who consider Gemstone a game not a way of life. Disconnect for a little while and you'll see how insignificant it is compared to everything else in your life. Really, it's not worth it to be this upset about something that could end tomorrow should their server explode. Heh, that may be a good thing, forcing them to start over, but that's another dead horse. reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rhain:
<<<It's not going to die away because not everyone who roleplayes like graphic games>>>

No, it will die off because it won't be a money maker, and Simutronics is a business and not in it for the enjoyment of the consumer...So when subscriptions start cutting the red sports car payment a bit short, you'll start seeing the dead end.

And I'd bet on that.

---

Eventually it will die off. Nothing lasts forever. 10+ years is already a long time for a computer game. But in 5 years? Probably not. H&X is profitable and they never get more than 30-40 people.

As far as all the old "legends" who are not around anymore.. people come and go. <shrug> There's no possible way to keep every single person who's ever played the game. It's impossible. People go because they're digruntled, bored, busy with other things, can't afford it, going to the military. Dozens of reasons.

And for the record .. the red sports car is paid off. reg

Simutronics? Yes.

GemStone? Maybe yes, maybe no. reg

Paid-off red sports car of David's - none of my business but obviously yours or you wouldn't know it.

Making a blanket statement that Simutronics will not grow - again, some pretty significant info for you to know, for someone who makes such an issue about not being important enough to know such things.

R
reg

It is run at the top by those who can't or shouldn't be where they are.....and it shows. Some in the ranks try their hardest to get things right but someone..somewhere is just incompetent. I knew then it was time to go.

I don't know all the dirty little stories about what goes on behind he scenes or real life meeting dirt (However feel free to send me any stories at PostalGETek@yahoo.com ) but for any of that to go on is just poor.

/End Rant

RetiredGSPlayer who comes here because it makes me laugh

reg

That being said .. here's my opinions..

<<Most recent experience. A account is closed since March 5, 2001. But yet they was still charging the CC and said it wasn't being charged. Go figure. Plus, they are trying to say they don't give refunds when they stole the money. Hmm. Stealing it taking without permission? This was only my imagination. Simutronics don't make mistakes like this!>>

Did you call billing? If they won't refund the money for an account that was closed, talk to your credit card company. You shouldn't have to pay for unauthorized charges. If that won't work, get your lawyer involved.

<<Since you are supporter. Are you staff? Mentors are staff sorry to say. Did you have to earn everything? Or did a friend baby you through and give you wealth?>>

Not all supporters are staff. I know you guys like to think that anyone who supports GS and Simutronics is staff, but it's just not true.

<<Accounts are NOT growing. Sorry to say.>>

You do not have access to that information. When you do and can give me hard numbers (saying I only see 815 people in the lands today, there were at least 900 yesterday isn't hard factual numbers) Tell me exactly how many new accounts there are every month and how many accounts leave, then I'll listen when you say something like that.

<<Plat was a FLOP. Plat was a worse FLOP with the lowering of the price.>>

If it was a total flop, they would have gotten rid of it. Instead they're getting more plat-only GMs and making it better. Plat was never meant to be another Prime. It was meant to be what GS was many years ago when the population was small.

It might not be as successful as they originally wanted it to be (I have no idea) but I don't believe they would be putting more effort and more GMs in to it if it was a flop.

<<blah blah about Melissa>>

I personally think she does a decent job. I think that there are things she could do better, but I think that about everyone. We all have our own ideas about how things should be run.

<<I am going to leave if nothing changes by Simucon. When I leave. I will burn the bridges with every dirty detail I got>>

Don't you already do that? Come on now. If you have stuff to say, just say it. Why protect evil Simutronics if you have all the dirty details about how things are REALLY run.

<<But until then. I will post and try and get their attention until I loss all HOPE in the lands. >>

Posting here isn't likely to get their attention. Most staff don't read here and the ones that did for awhile quit reading here because of all the abuse. I think there are still a couple left.

<<I am sorry people are so closed minded they can't see the horse is dead or in it's death throes. But hey! Some people are legally blind!>>

Close minded? Look in the mirror edge.

I'd say many of the Simu supporters are more open minded than you. I know I fully admit that Simu is imperfect and that there have been (and possibly still are) problem people on staff.

Name me ONE company that has never had a problem employee?

And if you know GMs who are corrupt and making items for people, by all means post it here. I'd like to see what sort of information you have (or think you have depending I guess). reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Desharei:
For someone who doesn't want people to advertise that they know about your business with David Whatley (whatever that business may be), you sure toss yourself into the fire quick enough.

Paid-off red sports car of David's - none of my business but obviously yours or you wouldn't know it.

Making a blanket statement that Simutronics will not grow - again, some pretty significant info for you to know, for someone who makes such an issue about not being important enough to know such things.

R

---

I think everyone knows about me and David Whatley now. Why deny it?

Edge said something about how he thinks Simutronics isn't going to grow anymore. I think they will. Gemstone is ONE product of theirs. Gemstone going down (not saying it is) doesn't mean Simutronics has to.

(edited to fix spelling error)

[This message has been edited by NoOneImportant (edited 01-04-2002).] reg

I did call billing.

No I'm not closed minded NOI like you are implying. I have admitted I was wrong on these boards a ton of times. Have you? I will change my mind when it's actually ran half way decent. But have yet to see anything change for the better.

If you don't want us talking about your relationship with Whatley. Please keep from giving us info about his personal affairs. You seem to get very upset when we say anything.

Crystaltears. You are trying to imply that I am alone in my...What did you say? Crying. You get mad and said so about me calling you closed minded. Please refrain from taking shots at me since I am not aloud to give them back. Caring about something so much that I have been Moding this section for so long is crying to you. Then don't read it. Stay in the Gemstone Gems. I am not going to fight with you.

Simutronics will not give out info on how many accounts they have. I notice that tons of people are leaving. I go to the catacombs and see who is just a baby character or actually a new player. Guess what? Not as many as the ones leaving. 2+2=4...How hard it that to figure out?

I mean. When the diehard players are leaving. Don't you think that things are getting to the end? You are going to surprised in the next 3 months who all leaves. Everyone for some reason wants to keep it a secret.

As for Melissa. She is responsible for Gemstone. She is the one that has to keep control. Is she doing it? Why is her staff still making items? Why is her staff saying things that are not true? Why can't her staff agree on what policy is? How come nothing that is broken is getting fixed? Because it all rolls downhill. Broken management = broken staff.

I think it's very frustrating when there is more items in the lands that are illegal that are legal. Don't you? Then the people that buy them are really getting screwed right now on breakage numbers. Person bought the strongest double leathers in the lands. 99\250. Was told they was strengthened 3 times by the person. Now guess what there breakage is? crap. Normal double leathers. Saying there are no records of the numbers before. BS.

But people can't see this. Because they don't want to see things like this.

Oops! Where did that wall come from?

edge

reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by edge:
Crystaltears. You are trying to imply that I am alone in my...What did you say? Crying. You get mad and said so about me calling you closed minded. Please refrain from taking shots at me since I am not aloud to give them back. Caring about something so much that I have been Moding this section for so long is crying to you. Then don't read it. Stay in the Gemstone Gems. I am not going to fight with you.

---

::sighs:: I stopped posting directly to your posts because I didn't want to argue with you anymore either. I was speaking to in regards to people that were really upset with the game and the company. You're in this group, I understand this but my post had NOTHING to do with JUST YOU! I even said in the beginning I understood your side. Do you ever see when I defend you, or do you only see the parts where I don't agree with you?

I never said crying. Please quote where I said you were alone and crying about it. I said you were upset and you ARE! I said I understood you caring! Please stop thinking everything I say is about YOU! Geez. reg

One of the frustrating and most disappointing areas of Gemstone was not the GMs, Simutronics or the game in general but the players.

As I have read quite a few posts on these boards, I find more and more why I left Gemstone. It was the players that drove me off not anything else. There are quite a few players I enjoyed my time with but for the most part, people with the attitudes of Edge are the people who are very draining.

I got really tired of seeing how people were complaining over the most childish things and the arguments over the most ridiculous issues. I found after a while there was no point in it. The roleplaying in the game is basically nonexistant. For the most part, most don't know the difference between OOC and IC which doesn't help any of the new players only cultivating more of a poor roleplaying environment.

I am positive this is probably one of the reasons why GMs such as Banthis, Smite and other take leaves because they get burned out on how they were treated on the Official boards and here.

So, Edge whatever difference or changes your trying to make go for it because in my humble opinion your only making it worse for the rest because of your poor attitude. reg

For the record, as I had posted a while back in a different place, these are two different 'policy breakers'...

Your 'non-roleplayers' typically aren't the ones that are causing all hell the break loose against Simutronics and anyone riding in the passenger side of the sports car..

Your 'non-roleplayers' don't have time to post much on the message boards They are busy wackin mobs d00d!

Kennesaw acknowledged, at one time, that we aren't much different when it comes to passion for the integrity of the game... Just how we go about expressing it is all...

So I guess you leaving because of passionate gamers like me, isn't much different from me leaving because of a poorly run company like Simutronics...

We all want the same thing and aren't getting it.

reg

Roleplaying is NOT the norm in GS. There are some excellent ones, and there are many who have their moments, when they are "on," but for the most part people don't get in character when they step in.

Do I blame SIMU for that? You betcha. Policy sets the tone for way things are run. Melissa as head, is the one responsible for setting policy. She is the one who is setting the checks and balances in place and making sure they work. She is not doing enough of this to make it work. Therefore, she as head, is to blame.

My personal philosophy of business is that the person at the top is responsible, therefore, I hold her accountable for the service provided. I find Gemstone to be lacking in many aspects. While I have overall had decent customer service, and on occasion, excellent customer service, I have watched as it many time does not work for others. Just because I'm not on the receiving end, does not mean it is not happening.

I have to question the training that their CS people are provided with.

I also have to question half-assed implementation of major changes such as breakage. The game does have to change in order to grow, but the WAY things are changed is what I am dissatisfied with.

The game has many positives. However it is the weaknesses in the game that caused me to become disenchanted with it. It's the inconsistent policies that drive me to the point where I too am on the verge of leaving. The few friends that I have left in the game are holding me to it. This board is holding me to it. But I am to the point where I am ready to sell most of my stuff, and mothball Aerienne.

I keep hoping for better changes in the game. Someday...

Aerienne reg

My attitude ingame is this? Ya right.

Oh wait. Maybe my free enchanting when I enchanted. That ran you off. I only sold a few enchants when hard up.

Maybe my helping anyone out that asked? That attitude ran you off.

Oh wait! Protecting the Newbie being picked on. That's a bad attitude there.

How about giving people in the catacombs coins and spelling them up? That ran you off?

So many other things I do to help people out. I even will rescue the people I hate because even pricks don't deserve to decay. Oh wait. Would you do that?

I try not to bring my frustrations into the lands. I stay to myself pretty much anymore. I go hunting with Summir. Merchant a bit on the net.

I don't try and ruin everyones fun. So nice shot. It didn't work.

Summir gets upset sometimes because I help so many people out, we never have time alone. But hey.

If you knew me ingame then you wouldn't say that. Which you don't.

But I am use to these types of attitudes towards me. They surely don't scare me enough to leave.

Still looking for.......HOPE.

edge

[This message has been edited by edge (edited 01-04-2002).] reg

I'm always reminded of folks sitting in the bleachers, with their beer bellies and pork rinds, cursing out the ballplayers for making an error or striking out on occasion.

Oddly enough, they keep showing up to the park, and more importantly, still do nothing themselves of any note, other than their daily tirade from left field. reg

it's until the stadium stops selling out, the team goes down the hole and even the most loyal fan stops showing up for the games. reg

HooRay!

edge reg

I find the people funny who comment that we, the players, should have no input into the game. Are we not the people who keep the game in business? Even McDonald's has CS cards for you to fill out if you ask. Most companies WANT to know how they are doing.

Aerienne reg

I'm not saying to not criticize, not get upset with ridiculous changes, not turn and walk away and to not question how they run their business. I'm saying that it's not important to everyone that plays and it shouldn't be forced on them to believe it and call them ignorant just because they experience it differently. reg

The fact that they refuse refunds in any circumstance is, for lack of a better word, retarded. Especially weddings. I can't believe that if someone pays for a wedding, which costs over $100, that if a month before the event one part of the couple has to leave the lands, you're screwed of your money? That's absurd. And don't get me started on the value of that event. For real life money that is being paid aside from the monthly subscription, it had better be sparkling awesome with minimum flaws.. it shouldn't be any less.

And for people that get banned or suspended, or heaven forbid have a real life engagement that prevents them from attending. Those people should be entitled to a refund, if not at least partially.

They should allow a certain amount of days after signing up to receive full refund. If done after two or three weeks, you get 75% back. If done up to 30 days prior, 60% back. If done up to a week before the event, 50% back. Once the event has started or taken place and no effort was made to change it, you forfeit your money.

To tell someone that has to go on a business trip and will miss a festival he paid for that "you snooze you lose" is definitely worthy of a swift kick in the corporate butt.

Other than that issue, the mechanics and changes they make to professions and items I won't dispute because I did before, it would make me froth at the mouth, I would quit for months at a time. And then when I realized it was affecting how I play and my enjoyment, it came to the point that I had to say to myself to forget it, I'm not getting involved, I'm just going to play and have fun until I don't anymore.

Again, I have never meant to make anyone believe that they shouldn't be adamant about wanting changes, that they shouldn't be upset with how they conduct their business, or that they not protest until they see justice done and hope rekindled again. Just don't try to make me feel like less of a player, customer and person by saying I HAVE to be this way too because it's no longer worth the stress.

If you want to look at this way, I don't think they deserve my strength and dedication to make changes because they haven't proven to me that they listen to the players. They are going to do it anyway regardless of how anyone feels. So I'll just have fun until they dig their own grave and I'll walk away with an "I told you so" smile on my face and play something else.

[This message has been edited by CrystalTears (edited 01-05-2002).] reg

I went to TGIFriday's at the airport not long after they re-opened in September while on my way to Florida. I have a "Gold Points" card that you can use there. They seated me, gave me a menu, and not until they noticed the card on my table did they mention that they don't honor it at that particular location.

I had already received my food.

I sent an e-mail to their headquarters when I got home, and was told that not all locations honor the card. The lady told me she'll make sure that location would place a sign that indicates the non-participation prominently by the front for people to read as they first walk in.

A week later I received from TGIFridays a letter of apology and acknowledgement of my complaint, along with a coupon card good for a dessert or appetizer of my choice at any participating TGIFridays.

Do their employees (locations) make mistakes? You betcha! Do they own up to them? Absolutely! Will I ever go back to TGIFridays? No doubt about it. Good food, good prices, good atmosphere, good customer service. I'm picky though. If *any* of these things was lacking, I wouldn't go back.

R
reg

Good customer service is usually a direct factor in staying in business. In the businesses that I've worked for in the HR dept. they've always cared about CS and feedback. Most stores do too, otherwise why would most chains have secret shoppers to keep tabs on their stores? Quality control is key.

GS doesn't have much quality control. There are a number of things that they could do if they wanted to improve it. Asking for player feedback is just one.

It's hard to come up with good examples to compare Simu to because they are not like most companies. What they sell is something that many people use for hours a day, and become up close and personal with. Addicted if you will. And any changes they make, do have a direct impact on our enjoyment of the game.

I don't criticize the need to make changes. It's obviously there. But the way they do it, with half-assed implementation, is not good business.

Perhaps setting up a player panel for feedback on the different aspects of the changes would be one way to get a broader view. Getting a different slant on the pros and cons of the changes, would help.

Aerienne reg

quote:

---

Originally posted by edge:
<<As I have read quite a few posts on these boards, I find more and more why I left Gemstone. It was the players that drove me off not anything else. There are quite a few players I enjoyed my time with but for the most part, people with the attitudes of Edge are the people who are very draining>>

My attitude ingame is this? Ya right.

Oh wait. Maybe my free enchanting when I enchanted. That ran you off. I only sold a few enchants when hard up.

Maybe my helping anyone out that asked? That attitude ran you off.

Oh wait! Protecting the Newbie being picked on. That's a bad attitude there.

How about giving people in the catacombs coins and spelling them up? That ran you off?

So many other things I do to help people out. I even will rescue the people I hate because even pricks don't deserve to decay. Oh wait. Would you do that?

I try not to bring my frustrations into the lands. I stay to myself pretty much anymore. I go hunting with Summir. Merchant a bit on the net.

I don't try and ruin everyones fun. So nice shot. It didn't work.

Summir gets upset sometimes because I help so many people out, we never have time alone. But hey.

If you knew me ingame then you wouldn't say that. Which you don't.

But I am use to these types of attitudes towards me. They surely don't scare me enough to leave.

Still looking for.......HOPE.

edge

[This message has been edited by edge (edited 01-04-2002).]

---

Well hush my mouth if I am not actually going to say that you have a point Edge.

Although I find your constant criticism on these boards tiring at times, I must admit I have not interacted with you ingame.

I hope you are right and you are able to keep it all apart and maintain an upbeat outlook ingame at least.

You say you do and I must take you at your word and say good going.

::still shaking my head and muttering about agreeing with you:: reg