The Players Corner Archive

His stats are as follow, at level 15:

Name: XXXXX XXXXXX Race: Sylvankind Profession: Rogue (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 48 Expr: 309818 Level: 15
Currently Stat Bonus
Constitution (CO): 64 .... 7
Dexterity (DE): 71 .... 15
Discipline (DI): 91 .... 15
Logic (LO): 63 .... 6
Intelligence (IN): 63 .... 6
Strength (ST): 85 .... 17
Reflexes (RE): 66 .... 13
Charisma (CH): 57 .... 8
Wisdom (WI): 97 .... 23
Aura (AU): 92 .... 26
Mana: 39 Silver: XXX

Stats are as follows:
XXXXX (at level 15), your skill bonuses and ranks are:
Skill Bonus Rank
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Armor Use : 124 [32]
Shield Use : 74 [16]
Combat Maneuvers : 74 [16]
Edged Weapons : 124 [32]
Climbing : 40 [8]
Swimming : 40 [8]
Disarm Traps : 74 [16]
Pick Locks : 74 [16]
Stalking & Hiding : 124 [32]
Perception : 74 [16]
Mana Sharing : 30 [6]
Ambush : 124 [32]
Physical Training : 74 [16]
Picking Pockets : 74 [16]
Brawling : 124 [32]
Mental Training Points : 15

I'm still plugging through Voln, and just got my 18th step. Generally, I hunt the GY Underbarrow.

My first question is about mana share. I'm debating how far to continue training. I've heard that 50 skill is sufficient, but some advocate going all the way up to 24 ranks. Any thoughts?

If I stop training in share after I get 50 skill, I can pick up a few ranks in scroll reading, and possibly being 2x'ing CM at that point. I really haven't played around with my spreadsheet.

As far as physical training goes, do you recommend 1x'ing for life? I know the HP recovery is faster, and it is a cheap primary redux rank, but would the TPs be better spent elsewhere?

Also... spell training. Initially I planned on getting 401-404 to aid in my box skills (which are meager, and only trained in 1x to give myself to open some boxes when I'm older)... but now that I think about, the TPs might be better spent on scroll reading or MIU (especially since I hear MIU will be needed for rubbable imbeds now)...

Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions you might have.

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-Emtel reg

But by the time I even get 50 skill (what, 12 ranks?), I'll have a nice amount of mana to send. Even half of that would still be a sizeable chunk...

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-Emtel reg

G reg

I would focus starting to 3x in hiding and stalking. I really believe that when the final set of GPIII changes come out, everyone will have wished they trained more in hiding and stalking.

reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Krong:
Personally, because of the diminishing returns, I wouldnt train past 50 in share. Its not worth the MP's to get all 24 ranks. You will probably be able to send 75% of your mana, cause casters are normally overtrained anyways.

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This was what I was thinking...

quote:

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Originally posted by Mallagra:
I wouldn't worry about mana share right now and it's not like you need the spells.

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I may not *need* the mana share right now, but it's nice to have. I don't use the mana... and it seems beneficial to be able to send to an empath, a cleric, etc, for whatever the case might be.

quote:

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I would focus starting to 3x in hiding and stalking. I really believe that when the final set of GPIII changes come out, everyone will have wished they trained more in hiding and stalking.

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Tripling hiding is something I've pondered for some time now. At level 15, ghoul masters and the other barrow creatures usually sniff me out about 1/3 of the time. They are a little over my head, but not much. I really don't know how tangible the difference between doubling and tripling, but I hear doubling allows you to hide 50-60% (my figures might be off) from like-age creatures, while tripling allows you to hide from 90%.

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-Emtel reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Emtel:
Tripling hiding is something I've pondered for some time now. At level 15, ghoul masters and the other barrow creatures usually sniff me out about 1/3 of the time. They are a little over my head, but not much. I really don't know how tangible the difference between doubling and tripling, but I hear doubling allows you to hide 50-60% (my figures might be off) from like-age creatures, while tripling allows you to hide from 90%.

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I would rather know I can hide 90% of the time than hoping to hide 50 to 70% of the time. If you can't hide, not able to ambush as well, pushing the odds you will die quicker.

Besides, the elder the creature the more preceptive they will become usually.

reg

A triplers chances of not being sniffed out over a doubler, is pretty small from what I have seen with my guys. reg

reg

When to start, though? When my PT caps out, or what? I'm short TPs simply because I choose to 2x in brawling, but I love Voln Fu and from what I hear it will become viable for the older ages.

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-Emtel reg

Of course if your PT is going to lax...max it...

But I'd say see how much stalking and hiding/PT/and brawling you can get. Try and train in as many as all 3 as much as possible. reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Omnirus:
But I'd say see how much stalking and hiding/PT/and brawling you can get. Try and train in as many as all 3 as much as possible.

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I know for a fact that I will 2x brawling for life, without exception. Physical training is my main decision now, because I don't know whether to continue training over my max health or not.

It seems like a cheap redux rank, but I can see the the importance of 3x'ing stalking/hiding. It will cut down on my redux, though...

The more that I think about it, the brawling is really messing things up. But I love the "different" route I'm taking... it's fun for a change.

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-Emtel reg

2x armor 9/0
1x shield 3/0
1x CM 4/5
2x edged 9/3
1x climb 2/1
1x swim 2/0
2x hide 3/3
1/3x share 0/6.3
1x disarm 1/1
1x pick 1/1
1x perception 0/1
2x ambush 6/3
1x PT 3/0
2x stealing 3/0
2x brawl 9/6
And you have 49/46
So you 55/30

You therefore have almost nothing to work with. My suggestion? Cut down on some skills that are going to max, such at PT and perception, and then try to fit 3x hide in.

G reg

Just curious, but since you say perception will reach a cap, what is a good amount to go for?

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-Emtel reg

And I have always thought brawling for rogues was bad. Costs to much and ambushing is so much better at killing things. reg

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I got no dukes. reg

quote:

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Originally posted by AestheticDeath:
And I have always thought brawling for rogues was bad. Costs to much and ambushing is so much better at killing things.

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So... what's wrong with being able to do both? Some people seem to advocate training with future changes in mind, but they fail to see both sides of the coin.

Taken from a post about GP on the offical boards:
"12. Improve brawling, including modifications to Voln Fu to allow it to be a viable and effective combat style at higher levels, and potentially the implementation of other, non-society-related combat styles."

Plus... I like being different. There aren't many rogues fully doubled in brawling...

In fact, I haven't swung my sword in over 5 trainings. Voln Fu can be very effective, especially when combined with a hunting partner who can cast Haste.

((Edited for clarity.))

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-Emtel

[This message has been edited by Emtel (edited 11-22-2001).] reg

Training was from best I can remember:

1x Armor, shield,disarm,lockpicking, perception (climbing and swimming about every three trainings, did Physical training until max hit points)

2x edged,CM,pickpockets,brawling

3x hiding

Might of missed something, but he wasn't built for dfredux but had it well enough. He could sure use the voln arts well though. Also the edged as well. And the extra training points would go to armor and that was starting to be 2x a train, disarm, and lockpicking.

There was some first aid but not a lot. And I think just a bit of Multi Op was started after they implemented that. Mainly to counter the Growing pains with multiple critters.

His stats were amazing and since I don't have access to him anymore I can't post them here. I think Brian put his dex and reflex as the two bottom stats under the old system since they grow so fast. And boy they sure did.

Hiway reg

At 28, I'll be able to double CM, continue tripling stalking/hiding, and continue on with my overall basic training plan.

When initially planning this character, I had spells 401-404 in mind. I'm debating whether or not to get these spells, though. I think self-cast lore could be beneficial, but the same benefit could be gotten from a few ranks in scroll reading. What do you folks think?

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-Emtel reg

[This message has been edited by AestheticDeath (edited 11-23-2001).] reg

quote:

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Originally posted by AestheticDeath:
I beleive that when casting lore from a scroll, you only receive half the bonus you would get if you were casting it yourself. The same goes for imbeds.

[This message has been edited by AestheticDeath (edited 11-23-2001).]

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Correct.

That is why you find picking/disarming empaths and clerics stealing (Living Rune - Spell 208) 403 and 404 from younger rogues/wizards/sorcs/bards. The bonus that you get from casting picklore and disarmlore by yourself is much higher than having someone else cast it on you.

reg

Lord Deprav
Who likes to smash hobbits. reg

I'll think about doubling CM now, but I don't think I can fit it in without having to rework a lot of my training.

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-Emtel reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Lord Deprav:
These people have given you some great advice. But just my two cents. Double in picking pockets. Very cheap for rogues and always a fun skill. When you get older you can just sit in the park and steal from people all day why you are resting and nobody will be able to do anything about it. Good skill for rogues. Also I would suggest you start doubling in combat maneuvers now. They are by far one of the most important skills for any character class not to mention it will help you survive. And since you are 15 by 25 you probaly should be hunting warfies and they cast ewave and some other critting spell that I forget.

Lord Deprav
Who likes to smash hobbits.

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Don't forget that it helps you spot other pickpocketers. reg

Doubling pickpockets when I don't ever use the skill just doesn't make sense. Singling is more than enough, when combined with perception, to spot any hands going into my pockets.

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-Emtel reg

After playing around with a spreadsheet, I'll be able to start doubling CM at 28 and tripling hiding at title without changing my training plan in any other way. Will he be viable, or should I find some way to double/triple those skills sooner? (He's already 17...)

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-Emtel reg

quote:

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Originally posted by Emtel:
This topic's been inactive for quite awhile now, but I recently was able to reopen my account with some Christmas money...

After playing around with a spreadsheet, I'll be able to start doubling CM at 28 and tripling hiding at title without changing my training plan in any other way. Will he be viable, or should I find some way to double/triple those skills sooner? (He's already 17...)

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That will be just fine. Doubling in CM is never required but it doesn't hurt in the long run. Just don't sacrifice other skills to double in CM but to triple in hiding will pay off in the long run.

In about 10 levels you should start seeing the tripling in hiding pay off and you will like it. I know I do.

reg